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Re: R5 stills overheating


Jesse Evans wrote:
TeamSpeed wrote:
Jesse Evans wrote:
snapsy wrote:
EB-1 wrote:
Jesse Evans wrote:
There is no substance to that claim of where the temperature is being measured from. Canons DIGIC processors are based on ARM designs which also include internal thermal monitoring. Nobody knows from where that temperature is being pulled. Since it’s 76c at times, it is much more likely measured internal to the chip and not an air temperature surrounding it.


Exactly. If the air were 76°C, the CPU would be fried without throttling.
However, there may be more than one temperature measurement and/or there is a high value for hysteresis that explains why it takes so long to reset.

EBH


The fact the R5 refuses to shoot video even after being powered off for minutes after reaching its thermal limit might argue the camera is using an indirect temperature sampling to establish temps of critical components (DIGIC especially). For example, an Intel/AMD CPU transitioning from full-load to idle can drop by 30C or more in the matter of seconds - I presume the same would be true for a load-dependent processing-intensive chip like DIGIC. In contrast, an ambient or at least DIGIC-removed PCB temp sampling would taper much more slowly. That said, they might also be using a empirically-derived heuristic based on a DIGIC-sampled temp that assumes a base+load temperature range - for example, if they sample the chip at relative idle at 55C, presume the temp would rise to 75C under load. That would require the DIGIC to reach its steady-state idle temp rather quickly for the camera to immediately know that video isn't possible immediately after powering up the camera after a previous thermal-limit load.


Given that numerous people have confirmed:

1. Cooldown time is consistent no matter the methods used (leave closed up, open all bay doors and remove lens, put in fridge, attach ice packs) have no change on the cooldown rate.

2. The cooldown rate is absurdly long for such a small device.

3. When "overheating" while shooting 4k HQ or 8k video that the battery, back panel underneath the LCD, inside the battery compartment, anywhere they could find, was cool or barely warm to the touch.

It is highly likely that the system is designed such that there is software at play that limits record times regardless of the cooldown state of the camera.


Or the boards are so close together to almost form a chamber of which heat cannot escape. This temp sensor would then be able to measure this envelope of air/heat, and also could explain why all these attempts have failed in getting the temps down faster.


The camera has molded plastic wrapped around a magnesium alloy body and lots of empty space, not a double walled vacuum sealed steal thermos designed to retain heat. The inability to extract heat from the system in a way that enables full recording times in a shorter period of time points to something very odd going on that can't be explained fully by weather sealing or anything else.


Actually no, it doesn't have alot of dead space. You can see the tear down of the R, the cameras are packed with various boards for battery/power, cards, main PCB, sensor board, etc. Combine that with the seals around the side panels for the ports, the rear panel is covered in material and rear LCD control, etc. Heat isn't coming out of the cameras very well at all. There are about 4-5 layers of material and electronics front to back with reinforced frame on the bottom for the tripod, and more.

The R5 will run MUCH hotter than the R and likely has even more goodies packed inside it like an IBIS system and a more powerful processor system.

The best chance you have to get the heat out of the camera is from the front, thus why Canon is considering an EF adapter that has a cooler in it. Buy hey, maybe they are just stupid and trying strange little tricks to appease the masses.

People doing astrophotography have been pretty diligent in tracking their camera temps, even the older bodies end up getting over 100 deg inside. Also, temps just don't come down very quickly. This is why these people build chiller boxes.

https://www.cloudynights.com/topic/532005-canon-testing-for-exif-to-actual-sensor-temperatures/
https://www.cloudynights.com/topic/265161-canon-5d-mk2-sensor-temperature-measurments/



Aug 04, 2020 at 06:03 PM
TeamSpeed
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Re: R5 stills overheating


Jesse Evans wrote:
TeamSpeed wrote:
Jesse Evans wrote:
snapsy wrote:
EB-1 wrote:
Jesse Evans wrote:
There is no substance to that claim of where the temperature is being measured from. Canons DIGIC processors are based on ARM designs which also include internal thermal monitoring. Nobody knows from where that temperature is being pulled. Since it’s 76c at times, it is much more likely measured internal to the chip and not an air temperature surrounding it.


Exactly. If the air were 76°C, the CPU would be fried without throttling.
However, there may be more than one temperature measurement and/or there is a high value for hysteresis that explains why it takes so long to reset.

EBH


The fact the R5 refuses to shoot video even after being powered off for minutes after reaching its thermal limit might argue the camera is using an indirect temperature sampling to establish temps of critical components (DIGIC especially). For example, an Intel/AMD CPU transitioning from full-load to idle can drop by 30C or more in the matter of seconds - I presume the same would be true for a load-dependent processing-intensive chip like DIGIC. In contrast, an ambient or at least DIGIC-removed PCB temp sampling would taper much more slowly. That said, they might also be using a empirically-derived heuristic based on a DIGIC-sampled temp that assumes a base+load temperature range - for example, if they sample the chip at relative idle at 55C, presume the temp would rise to 75C under load. That would require the DIGIC to reach its steady-state idle temp rather quickly for the camera to immediately know that video isn't possible immediately after powering up the camera after a previous thermal-limit load.


Given that numerous people have confirmed:

1. Cooldown time is consistent no matter the methods used (leave closed up, open all bay doors and remove lens, put in fridge, attach ice packs) have no change on the cooldown rate.

2. The cooldown rate is absurdly long for such a small device.

3. When "overheating" while shooting 4k HQ or 8k video that the battery, back panel underneath the LCD, inside the battery compartment, anywhere they could find, was cool or barely warm to the touch.

It is highly likely that the system is designed such that there is software at play that limits record times regardless of the cooldown state of the camera.


Or the boards are so close together to almost form a chamber of which heat cannot escape. This temp sensor would then be able to measure this envelope of air/heat, and also could explain why all these attempts have failed in getting the temps down faster.


The camera has molded plastic wrapped around a magnesium alloy body and lots of empty space, not a double walled vacuum sealed steal thermos designed to retain heat. The inability to extract heat from the system in a way that enables full recording times in a shorter period of time points to something very odd going on that can't be explained fully by weather sealing or anything else.


Actually no, it doesn't have alot of dead space. You can see the tear down of the R, the cameras are packed with various boards for battery/power, cards, main PCB, sensor board, etc. Combine that with the seals around the side panels for the ports, the rear panel is covered in material and rear LCD control, etc. Heat isn't coming out of the cameras very well at all. There are about 4-5 layers of material and electronics front to back with reinforced frame on the bottom for the tripod, and more.

The R5 will run MUCH hotter than the R and likely has even more goodies packed inside it like an IBIS system and a more powerful processor system.

The best chance you have to get the heat out of the camera is from the front, thus why Canon is considering an EF adapter that has a cooler in it. Buy hey, maybe they are just stupid and trying strange little tricks to appease the masses.

People doing astrophotography have been pretty diligent in tracking their camera temps, even the older bodies end up getting over 100 deg inside.

https://www.cloudynights.com/topic/532005-canon-testing-for-exif-to-actual-sensor-temperatures/



Aug 04, 2020 at 06:00 PM
TeamSpeed
Offline
Upload & Sell: Off
Re: R5 stills overheating


Jesse Evans wrote:
TeamSpeed wrote:
Jesse Evans wrote:
snapsy wrote:
EB-1 wrote:
Jesse Evans wrote:
There is no substance to that claim of where the temperature is being measured from. Canons DIGIC processors are based on ARM designs which also include internal thermal monitoring. Nobody knows from where that temperature is being pulled. Since it’s 76c at times, it is much more likely measured internal to the chip and not an air temperature surrounding it.


Exactly. If the air were 76°C, the CPU would be fried without throttling.
However, there may be more than one temperature measurement and/or there is a high value for hysteresis that explains why it takes so long to reset.

EBH


The fact the R5 refuses to shoot video even after being powered off for minutes after reaching its thermal limit might argue the camera is using an indirect temperature sampling to establish temps of critical components (DIGIC especially). For example, an Intel/AMD CPU transitioning from full-load to idle can drop by 30C or more in the matter of seconds - I presume the same would be true for a load-dependent processing-intensive chip like DIGIC. In contrast, an ambient or at least DIGIC-removed PCB temp sampling would taper much more slowly. That said, they might also be using a empirically-derived heuristic based on a DIGIC-sampled temp that assumes a base+load temperature range - for example, if they sample the chip at relative idle at 55C, presume the temp would rise to 75C under load. That would require the DIGIC to reach its steady-state idle temp rather quickly for the camera to immediately know that video isn't possible immediately after powering up the camera after a previous thermal-limit load.


Given that numerous people have confirmed:

1. Cooldown time is consistent no matter the methods used (leave closed up, open all bay doors and remove lens, put in fridge, attach ice packs) have no change on the cooldown rate.

2. The cooldown rate is absurdly long for such a small device.

3. When "overheating" while shooting 4k HQ or 8k video that the battery, back panel underneath the LCD, inside the battery compartment, anywhere they could find, was cool or barely warm to the touch.

It is highly likely that the system is designed such that there is software at play that limits record times regardless of the cooldown state of the camera.


Or the boards are so close together to almost form a chamber of which heat cannot escape. This temp sensor would then be able to measure this envelope of air/heat, and also could explain why all these attempts have failed in getting the temps down faster.


The camera has molded plastic wrapped around a magnesium alloy body and lots of empty space, not a double walled vacuum sealed steal thermos designed to retain heat. The inability to extract heat from the system in a way that enables full recording times in a shorter period of time points to something very odd going on that can't be explained fully by weather sealing or anything else.


Actually no, it doesn't have alot of dead space. You can see the tear down of the R, the cameras are packed with various boards for battery/power, cards, main PCB, sensor board, etc. Combine that with the seals around the side panels for the ports, the rear panel is covered in material and rear LCD control, etc. Heat isn't coming out of the cameras very well at all. There are about 4-5 layers of material and electronics front to back with reinforced frame on the bottom for the tripod, and more.

The R5 will run MUCH hotter than the R and likely has even more goodies packed inside it like an IBIS system and a more powerful processor system.

The best chance you have to get the heat out of the camera is from the front, thus why Canon is considering an EF adapter that has a cooler in it. Buy hey, maybe they are just stupid and trying strange little tricks to appease the masses.



Aug 04, 2020 at 05:50 PM





  Previous versions of TeamSpeed's message #15305908 « R5 stills overheating »

 




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