jcolman wrote:
Step three. There-in lies the rub . Step four. I guess I need to hire a marketing company.
Yeah, there is the rub. If you don't know why someone would hire you then the market clearly doesn't know either. I know that you are complaining about someone not handing you the answer to this question simply over a forum but the fact is the answer ends up being different and specific to every person. It has to be because otherwise it isn't the answer. I consult with tons of photographers to work them through this process and not once have two studios come to the same conclusion about their value. Its a custom process by nature.
I help other people do it and I had to hire my own coach (at far higher rates than I charge) to figure it out for myself. Some things you have to get the old-fashioned way.
My experience has been once you figure out step 3 step four manages itself, no need for a marketing company. No sense in hiring a marketing company without step 3 - they can't market a message they don't have.
TRReichman wrote:
Yeah, there is the rub. If you don't know why someone would hire you then the market clearly doesn't know either. I know that you are complaining about someone not handing you the answer to this question simply over a forum but the fact is the answer ends up being different and specific to every person. It has to be because otherwise it isn't the answer. I consult with tons of photographers to work them through this process and not once have two studios come to the same conclusion about their value. Its a custom process by nature.
I help other people do it and I had to hire my own coach (at far higher rates than I charge) to figure it out for myself. Some things you have to get the old-fashioned way.
My experience has been once you figure out step 3 step four manages itself, no need for a marketing company. No sense in hiring a marketing company without step 3 - they can't market a message they don't have.
This is the crux of the issue I believe everyone who sits looking up deals with.
What makes other people want to hire me for my work.
trr is right, it's very person specific.
I'll freely admit that I was at the same place a while ago. I sent trr a message asking how he got to where he was, what he did, how he managed to do what he's done. He didn't give me a real idea, or at least a blueprint of how to do that.
What I figured out for myself was where I am right now. I figured out how I wanted to present myself to potential clients. From there, I figured out the best way to reach those clients. Then, I created a persona that I could fit into that would show the best of myself to my potential clients. Next I tailored my products to give a different experience than 99% of the photographers that are already out there. I offer two products I haven't seen offered anywhere else. They are unique to me. Then I figured out the business end of things. What I needed to charge, where I should spend my marketing efforts, what I was willing to do even though it bucks some expected standards to sell myself.
Obviously in each of these steps I worked on what I needed to do to accomplish each part. Those specifics are what make your business yours.
Here's the thing, I don't WANT to be a $2000 weddin photographer. I want to be a $10,000 photographer. If I were charging 2k per wedding I would he shooting 50+ weddings a year. Why? Because at that dollar figure, I'm a phenomenal bargain.
Again, I like nice thing and I like providing nice things to my clients. What are you goin to do when you buy a house, have kids, or God forbid, need health insurance? Raise your rates to $5k overnight? Good luck wih that.
Inku Yo wrote:
Here's the thing, I don't WANT to be a $2000 weddin photographer. I want to be a $10,000 photographer. If I were charging 2k per wedding I would he shooting 50+ weddings a year. Why? Because at that dollar figure, I'm a phenomenal bargain.
Again, I like nice thing and I like providing nice things to my clients. What are you goin to do when you buy a house, have kids, or God forbid, need health insurance? Raise your rates to $5k overnight? Good luck wih that.
That's fine. I'm not telling you that you should be a $2000/wedding photographer. I'm not even saying that I'm a 2k/wedding photographer. If I were though, it wouldn't take me 50+ weddings a year to maintain my lifestyle. It would take me 17. I know this because when I started this is what my average was for a wedding. I was able to run my business(albeit pretty poorly compared to now) and still maintain my lifestyle. I enjoy nice things too. However, my nice things aren't your nice things. You may place a value on things that I think are stupid and I might place value on things you may think are worthless. That's just the nature of things.
What will I do if I want to buy a house, have kids, or need health insurance? I'll do what anyone else does when wanting those things. I'll figure out how and what I need to do to afford/attain them. I'm not going to wake up tomorrow and decide, "I need to buy a house next week. I should think about upping my rates by a grand or two." The health insurance is the only thing that I sometimes worry about, but in the grand scheme of things, it's like 35th on my list of concerns.
PatFurey89 wrote:
I swear half the threads on business here end up the exact same way.
That is the truth. Lots of "I figured out this and I figured out that". Kind of like saying "I figured where I wanted to shoot, then I figured out the best f/stop to use then I figured out where I wanted to place my light".
I'm not berating anyone nor am I complaining. I'm simply saying that the road map to great riches seems to be written in secret code..
For what it's worth, the road everyone takes to get to their destination is not frequently driven by others. Everyone needs to figure out what works for them.
Three rules I've applied to my own work.
1. Do great work / work hard.
2. Treat people greatly.
3. Charge accordingly.
That's what's worked for me, might not work for others. I'm not interested in generalizations.
I don't think the path to riches is written in secret code, it's just written in our own language. I'm not you. How could I ever begin to tell you what style your photos should represent? How could I ever tell you what type of client you should be looking after? How can I tell you how you should be running your business. If you wanted that, why not go work for someone else instead? I'm not saying that in a mean way, but if you want all of those decisions worked out for you, you aren't really in control of your business anymore, I would be.
Health insurance is definitely not number one for me nor will it ever be. Right along with car insurance, it's a money sink outside of the 1-2% of cases that are at the extreme of the scale.
PatFurey89 wrote:
For what it's worth, the road everyone takes to get to their destination is not frequently driven by others. Everyone needs to figure out what works for them.
Three rules I've applied to my own work.
1. Do great work / work hard.
2. Treat people greatly.
3. Charge accordingly.
That's what's worked for me, might not work for others. I'm not interested in generalizations.
monoatomic72 wrote:
That's fine. I'm not telling you that you should be a $2000/wedding photographer. I'm not even saying that I'm a 2k/wedding photographer. If I were though, it wouldn't take me 50+ weddings a year to maintain my lifestyle. It would take me 17. I know this because when I started this is what my average was for a wedding. I was able to run my business(albeit pretty poorly compared to now) and still maintain my lifestyle. I enjoy nice things too. However, my nice things aren't your nice things. You may place a value on things that I think are stupid and I might place value on things you may think are worthless. That's just the nature of things.
What will I do if I want to buy a house, have kids, or need health insurance? I'll do what anyone else does when wanting those things. I'll figure out how and what I need to do to afford/attain them. I'm not going to wake up tomorrow and decide, "I need to buy a house next week. I should think about upping my rates by a grand or two." The health insurance is the only thing that I sometimes worry about, but in the grand scheme of things, it's like 35th on my list of concerns. ...Show more →
So you're saying you can live on 34k per year? 24k after taxes? 2k per month when your rent alone is more than half of that? 900/month and we haven't even talked about the other expenses if running a profitable business.
I'm on my iPhone so I apologize if I've misread anything.
monoatomic72 wrote:
Health insurance is definitely not number one for me nor will it ever be. Right along with car insurance, it's a money sink outside of the 1-2% of cases that are at the extreme of the scale.
That's a terrible way to look at it, I'm sorry. If you can't afford health insurance and you're running your own business, you might want to reconsider what you do for a living.
In my current situation, it would be a BIG stretch, but I could probably pull it off. That figure was for when I first started. I had a smaller, cheaper apartment. I didn't have the meeting space with clients. I didn't have some other bills that I do now. I also didn't run the business as well as I should and probably dumped a bunch of unnecessary money trying to chase other photographers.
With that said, my personal lifestyle didn't change much. I still do the same things I do now for enjoyment. I still took vacations, saved money, had fun, etc. I'm able to afford a bigger place, some fun toys, some extras I couldn't before, but overall, not much has changed between now and then.
I'll also add that this was my living break even point. I did more than 17 weddings, but after that point, it was strictly extra for me.
monoatomic72 wrote:
I don't think the path to riches is written in secret code, it's just written in our own language. I'm not you. How could I ever begin to tell you what style your photos should represent? How could I ever tell you what type of client you should be looking after? How can I tell you how you should be running your business. If you wanted that, why not go work for someone else instead? I'm not saying that in a mean way, but if you want all of those decisions worked out for you, you aren't really in control of your business anymore, I would be.
Health insurance is definitely not number one for me nor will it ever be. Right along with car insurance, it's a money sink outside of the 1-2% of cases that are at the extreme of the scale....Show more →
Maybe I gave the wrong impression. I'm not asking you or anyone else to do my work for me, to tell me what I should or should not say or do to turn me into a $10k photographer. I'm more curious what exactly did you do to make it work for you.
Obviously I need to figure out some things for myself. That's a given. But how does one go from a $2000k to a $5000k wedding photographer overnight? I'd like specifics other than "I figured out how to contact the right brides"
PatFurey89 wrote:
That's a terrible way to look at it, I'm sorry. If you can't afford health insurance and you're running your own business, you might want to reconsider what you do for a living.
I have to agree with Pat on this one. You may think it's a waste of money, but we had a friend, aged 23, who was in perfect health and suddenly had a lung collapse. You can only imagine how high those doctor bills are. Health insurance is for emergencies.
PatFurey89 wrote:
That's a terrible way to look at it, I'm sorry. If you can't afford health insurance and you're running your own business, you might want to reconsider what you do for a living.
I can afford it, that's not the question. I don't see how having somewhat sketchy coverage for 3-400 a month or fantastic coverage for 8-900 a month is doing me any good when I can visit a clinic or pay for a single doctors visit if I absolutely need it. Yes something major could happen. I might have a heart attack tomorrow. I might have an accident and break my arm. I may be saddled with medical bills for the rest of my life if something catastrophic happens. For the time being though, I'm in good health and can't justify paying the amount of money needed to have worthwhile coverage. I've given away copious amounts of money to medical plans throughout my life with little to no benefit to me. At this point in my life, to me, it's just not worth it.
Pay for insurance vs. risking your life / business / life savings due to an emergency? No thanks, even if the percentages may be in my favor.
That said, I don't even feel a dent from any form of insurance financially (I pay for renters, auto, health, and business) and I sleep much better at night knowing I'm in some form protected from uncertainty.
My insurance isn't $800/month and I wouldn't call my coverage sketchy. I'm a healthy 21 year old male, though.
I don't do photography for a full time living, but I do make all of my living in digital arts. I have been self employed for nearly 25 years and have owned several service businesses over that time.
What I have found out:
The folks that beat you up, wanting discounts, will be the most hassle at the end of the job, wanting even more service than they agreed to, or they become pissy about something, and will want even more discount.
I tend to base my rate based on what it takes to make a living and that I have equipment, experience, etc. per the first post in this thread; think cost accounting. If a prospect won't pay my rate, then they don't expect me to make a living from what I do. That makes them a non-client. If a client won't allow me to make a living, I'd rather stay home and pet the cat or clean my aquarium.
I have this little quote memorized for those occasions: "I think you would be more well served by hiring someone who can meet your budget criteria. I specialize in giving good service and I don't like to compromise on that".
Very often when folks are called out on being cheap, they come around and hire me, and let me make a living.
monoatomic72 wrote:
I can afford it, that's not the question. I don't see how having somewhat sketchy coverage for 3-400 a month or fantastic coverage for 8-900 a month is doing me any good when I can visit a clinic or pay for a single doctors visit if I absolutely need it. Yes something major could happen. I might have a heart attack tomorrow. I might have an accident and break my arm. I may be saddled with medical bills for the rest of my life if something catastrophic happens. For the time being though, I'm in good health and can't justify paying the amount of money needed to have worthwhile coverage. I've given away copious amounts of money to medical plans throughout my life with little to no benefit to me. At this point in my life, to me, it's just not worth it....Show more →
Who are you getting coverage through and when did you have a C-section? Seriously, I've never paid anything close to that for private insurance. It should be around $125 to $180 for fairly good coverage if you are somewhat healthy (although I think jprezant may have a few choice words about this...). I know we pay $350/mo, but that's because there are two people covered.
