TRReichman wrote:
Your problem is that you have indicated that you are very cheap, but your products are very expensive. This is not a good value proposition. Products should not be where the value lies.
Just to clarify TRR, are you saying that instead of say pricing a package with an album at $1800 for the photographer and $1200 for the product, a better way to present it would be $2500 for the photographer and $500 for the product?
In essence, you aren't presenting to the client that they are paying a premium for the actual product, they are paying for the photographer's work that results in the finished product?
There is someone in our market that I know well who does this (and she is wildly successful). Granted, her high end is already established, so she created a 'low end', separate company and has associates work for her. She is raking it in.
If I think I know what you're talking about, isn't the second company separate as in the company doesn't shoot weddings? Either way, more power to him/her for pulling it off, albiet on a different scale.
TTLKurtis wrote:
So I added a Y. What's one letter.
I always thought you were in NYC.
In any case $300 still ain't much of an increase. I shot a wedding in Pittsburg last fall so maybe that's why you thought I was in NYC.
You're right, $300 isn't that much however I think I'm right in the middle of the pricing range here in NC. I'm competing against some pretty good shooters who only charge $1800 for an entire days coverage. I now range from $2100 to $5100 with my middle package with an album at $3900. I think that's above the average. Maybe next fall I'll bump up my pricing again. I'll see how these new rates fly.
jcolman wrote:
I shot a wedding in Pittsburg last fall so maybe that's why you thought I was in NYC.
You're right, $300 isn't that much however I think I'm right in the middle of the pricing range here in NC. I'm competing against some pretty good shooters who only charge $1800 for an entire days coverage. I now range from $2100 to $5100 with my middle package with an album at $3900. I think that's above the average. Maybe next fall I'll bump up my pricing again. I'll see how these new rates fly.
I don't think you're being unwise
Also ... $300 isn't *that* much, but if you changed nothing else it's about $200 more straight into the pocket... or in other words... nearly 10% of the package price MORE is going into your pocket... so yeah... in those terms it's nothing to sneeze at.
Also ... $300 isn't *that* much, but if you changed nothing else it's about $200 more straight into the pocket... or in other words... nearly 10% of the package price MORE is going into your pocket... so yeah... in those terms it's nothing to sneeze at.
jcolman wrote:
Having a $47k package wasn't doing me any favors, even if it was intended as nothing more than a conversation starter.
Though you've changed your page since, I wanted to touch on this. It's still relevant.
A big thing to grasp about pricing would be to consider all the strategy behind how it's presented. That would be the *why* it's presented the way it is. If the *why* is to be a "conversation starter", I would've said that's not the place for it because the pricing page may not be the place for sparking conversations about outlandish offers - I think you'd rather have it be a place to screen and condition prospects to consider your price in a way that leads to a booking, right?
Giving them a jolt by way of an out of this world package may make their tongues wag, sure, but isn't part and parcel of on the path to bookings. A better place could be a PR piece in an area magazine where they feature this local photographer who's come up with this outrageous jewel encrusted wedding album with multi-day coverage anywhere-even-if-your-wedding-is-at-the-north-pole for the princely sum of $47,000. That's the buzz Alexander McQueen went after by designing outrageous outfits no one would really ever buy or that restaurant in NYC that had a $2,000 sundae lined with edible gold or Preston Bailey's over-the-top monstrous bouquet at last fall's Knot Gala. That's all for folks to say "what is that?" and get them turn their sights onto them for a bit.
I think the missing key for you may be that you don't know exactly what to do. Your thoughts seem to reflect that, if I may paraphrase: 'I'll do it tongue in cheek' vs 'But serious just in case someone takes me up on it'. 'As a conversation starter' vs 'Just to see what happens'... and as a consequence of not having a set strategy are doing anything and everything, or in other words, throwing darts everywhere in the hopes of getting somewhat close to a bulls-eye.
Start with a defined strategy first that fits congruently with everything else about how you want to be perceived - and how you want to be perceived would be equal to what's important to the type of client you want to attract. Let's call that your "Message." Mercilessly cut anything and everything else no matter how much you personally like it, think it's "cute", wife likes it, it's mom's fave, if it doesn't fit well or deviates or detracts from your Message.
TRReichman wrote:
Ive had clients that paid $1500 refer $10,000 weddings 2-3 years later.
I've always found that because they tend to travel in the same socio-economic demographics, like refers like. Have you found the same and are describing that the exception to this rule has occurred from time to time, or are you saying this became a matter of course for you?
Joogy wrote:
I've always found that because they tend to travel in the same socio-economic demographics, like refers like. Have you found the same and are describing that the exception to this rule has occurred from time to time, or are you saying this became a matter of course for you?
It has happened to me many times. I have never liked the whole socio-economic classification of potential clients because I think it completely ignores many of the dominant buying motives that a potential client might choose based on. My brand is not based upon socio-economic factors, thus I am able to attract clients from multiple income brackets (all paying a "high-end" price).
Having said that, I am going to try my hand this year at moving upmarket to working solely with higher socio economic group and see what happens.
Joogy wrote:
Though you've changed your page since, I wanted to touch on this. It's still relevant.
A big thing to grasp about pricing would be to consider all the strategy behind how it's presented. That would be the *why* it's presented the way it is. If the *why* is to be a "conversation starter", I would've said that's not the place for it because the pricing page may not be the place for sparking conversations about outlandish offers - I think you'd rather have it be a place to screen and condition prospects to consider your price in a way that leads to a booking, right?
Giving them a jolt by way of an out of this world package may make their tongues wag, sure, but isn't part and parcel of on the path to bookings. A better place could be a PR piece in an area magazine where they feature this local photographer who's come up with this outrageous jewel encrusted wedding album with multi-day coverage anywhere-even-if-your-wedding-is-at-the-north-pole for the princely sum of $47,000. That's the buzz Alexander McQueen went after by designing outrageous outfits no one would really ever buy or that restaurant in NYC that had a $2,000 sundae lined with edible gold or Preston Bailey's over-the-top monstrous bouquet at last fall's Knot Gala. That's all for folks to say "what is that?" and get them turn their sights onto them for a bit.
I think the missing key for you may be that you don't know exactly what to do. Your thoughts seem to reflect that, if I may paraphrase: 'I'll do it tongue in cheek' vs 'But serious just in case someone takes me up on it'. 'As a conversation starter' vs 'Just to see what happens'... and as a consequence of not having a set strategy are doing anything and everything, or in other words, throwing darts everywhere in the hopes of getting somewhat close to a bulls-eye.
Start with a defined strategy first that fits congruently with everything else about how you want to be perceived - and how you want to be perceived would be equal to what's important to the type of client you want to attract. Let's call that your "Message." Mercilessly cut anything and everything else no matter how much you personally like it, think it's "cute", wife likes it, it's mom's fave, if it doesn't fit well or deviates or detracts from your Message.
Inku Yo wrote:
Before I answer your questions, I have a couple questions for you. You say that it's possible to run a profitable wedding photography business at $2K a pop, but you're not charging that (anymore?). What made you start charging more money? Why are you not booking 70 weddings at $2K each?
What did I change to start charging more? A couple things.
1. I upped my game. I invested in a couple of workshops that took me to another level. My photography now compared to when I was charging $1800 for shoot/burns is just plain out of this world. I'm not saying I'm great. I think I'm an ok photographer, but I want to be the best and I will continue to invest in my art.
2. I raised my rates. Not arbitrarily. Anyone can buy a DSLR and charge $5K per wedding. Will they get it? Maybe 1 or 2, but not enough to sustain a profitable business. I raised my rates slowly. People kept booking. As my body of work improved, I raised my rates more, and people still kept booking.
People (TRR) might disagree with me, but you can't consistently charge "big" money if you don't have the skills to support it. I see a lot of advice being given out - "raise your rates" without knowing anything about the other person's situation.
When would I say to raise your rates? When everyone you meet is booking you and you're so busy, you need to slow down the booking rate. If you're struggling to get bookings from the "ideal" client, then I would take a look at other things - meaning your presentation, your portfolio.
Again, TRR might disagree with me, but you can't decide to charge more money, wait, and expect people to book you at the higher rate if your work and your brand and your client experience doesn't support it.
Toyota can't raise the prices of their cars and expect people to consider them a "luxury" brand - unless they actually make a luxury brand and provide the product, service, and experience that goes along with it.
I totally agree with you. Price increase should be associated with the skills and the quality of products delivered to the clients. When one is too busy to keep up with the work, then it is necessary to raise the rate. That's at least how I price myself.
In the mean time, I constantly improve myself in both shooting, post-processing and equipments, since this is a very competitive business.
jcolman wrote:
All good food for thought. But let me present this in a different way,
I spent the last 18 years working for a very successful video production company. We charged more than the average production company in our area because we were one of the best. We had a lot of clients and we made a lot of money.
But we would often discount our prices during slow months or for trusted clients that needed a break on a project. We would also discount our prices at times just so we could land a new client. We were very successful. We were passionate about our craft. Discounting our rates was a business tool that we used when and where necessary.
The company has been in business for over 30 years while many of our competitors went out of business. This is the lesson I learned and this is why I will offer a discount at times....Show more →
I think discount does cheapen your "brand" and should be done very carefully. Same reason why Sunday wedding are cheaper (venue-wise), offer discounts on less popular dates, seasons. And make it explicit so that people do not get confused. Your time is worth $X during the peak season and $x during off-peak. Price and demand right?
