25 min. long....
I will get back to you on this...
*UPDATE* I watched.
Ok first off it was better than I thought. So good in fact that I took notes.
I agree that cameras are cheap and that pretty much anyone with half a brain can be a "photographer". This has been happening for a while now and is on an incline because of the amount of cheap technology that is really good.
How do we differentiate ourselves...how do we sell a commodity that is so easy to produce?
I agree that we have to be different. Taking good pictures is not enough. On the rare occasion a person will have such a different "style" that just taking those types of pictures works. But for the 99.9% of the rest of the people the quality of the picture alone is not good enough.
*We need to be selling someone (even an idea) besides just good pictures to make ourselves stand out. This IMO will be different for different people and depends a lot on our personality. This also is what will help the industry because we are not all going to be selling the same different thing. It will be individual because we are all different.
Could be the story, could be rock star treatment, could be way we use social networking to make people "famous". Any way we slice it we have to be different.
*We have to put on the over the top show.
Lady Gaga is my best example..she is over the top. I will leave it up to everyone to interpret for themselves why her "brand" sells but IMO it is pure genius and is making her a ton of money.
*Selling out.
A large portion of what he was talking about was along on the lines of basically selling out. Giving things away for free.
He has good points. If we don't do it someone else will.
So is doing a little bit for free to make more in the long run worth it....? Maybe, and I would think that when the bills come in and you need to put food on the table all rules go out the door.
If I gave away a few photoshoots for free just to spread images and my name in order to set myself up for more lucrative business down the road would that be bad...would I be a sellout, not worthy? Hard to say. I am sure people would agree both ways and truthfully I am not sure what I would do.
Example: I do not do much besides weddings. I want to get into maternity and infant documentary photography. My prices are high therefore no one that I know books because they just don't have the funds. I am confident what I to provide is unique enough, and people DO want it I know, but when the money is not there it is not there. It is hard to convince people to buy something when they cannot see the final product. So do I do a few for free and chalk it up to advertising...? Seth says hell ya.
He said "Their might not be pay to make the first one, but their will be pay to make the rest..."
This will be a hotly debated topic I think.
He also said that if we take average pics for average clients to just save ourselves the agony and stop. I agree only in the sense that we need to have a plan to move past the ordinary and set ourselves apart.
With the technological world we live in we have unlimited resources and also unlimited competition now.
We cannot be average, we cannot be just another person with a camera that understands f-stops and how to look for Rembrandt lighting. IMO we need to be different. Being unique and different and selling something that is not just good pictures might set us apart. That something really could be anything and is largely dependent on the personality of the photographer. And it *might* set us apart because quite frankly it is a crap shoot. You might make it you might not. No guarantees just because you are different.
All of he said was interesting to think about and he had a lot of valid points. Not saying I agree or disagree with it all but it was good food for thought.
"We don't have a right to be paid money, we have to earn the money" Freaking great quote.
IMO just the fact that we can take nice pictures is not enough. No one owes us anything for that. We have to be able to provide something truly extraordinary for clients in order for them to want to pay us what WE think we deserve.
If people actually take the time to watch the video and digest the content we should have a pretty interesting discussion on our hands.
Worthless observation - rubber chicken on top of Seth's book shelf. Just starting to watch now...
Okay, that was interesting. When done here I will check out Seth's site.
I think one has to make the distinction between giving away their work because they are desperate as opposed to performing their work at no charge in a very calculated manner. The latter, as proposed by Seth, enables one to set a new creative standard for themselves without creative parameters or limits set by a paying client. That makes sense to me - but first in that step - and the truly challenging part - is identifying what your differentiating vision or factor is. Not easy for most, which is why if you can do it successfully you've just leap frogged to the head of the line.
Great food for thought - thanks for the link, Tony.
You cannot deny that his points are valid. I have lots of thoughts on what he says here, but I want some time to think them over more and decide how much I want to share. Having been a professional in the music industry, I can identify with MUCH of what he says and have been trying to implement this road of thought into my photography business. I think the strongest advice is at 15:15. What's funny is, I just spent the past two weeks creating a new product that fills this idea. Part of me is afraid to do it because, just like he says, I'll be that guy you'll all hate.
maxwell1295 wrote:
As I was watching this, the first (actually only) photographer I thought of was Sergio.
Real talk...
I thought of Sergio in the fact that his style and shots are so different that most other people. He is an example IMO of the 1% of people who can sell shots just based on what the picture is like. When I think of being different in the business sense and really being over the top in terms of everything else involved I think of a few other people.
After about 15 minutes of processing that video I have a couple of observations.
Doug. Great post. The only thing I would like to point out is your line about selling out.
Seth said selling out, in his field, would be to go the conventional route of the standard publishing. I.E. publishing his books with old established publishers. His Domino project is about giving stuff away to the masses first to get your name out. That is not selling out.. Its in fact the opposite.
As to the rest of the video. It has made me think about ideas I already had running through my head.
I do think he is right and now I am going to go forward with my plans I already had in place.
Let me explain.
First thing that I realized is that I am in fact in the business of selling average photos to average people. Is it my fault? Probably..
Most of my clients want wedding photos to just document the day. So basically they want me there so they can say "Hey look, we got married. Here is the proof, we have the photos to prove it"
I am not being hired to tell a story of the dream wedding the bride has dreamed of since she was a little girl. The clients do not want to spend any time shooting images in fabulous locals. They all seem to want the quickest they can get to get on to the reception.
Spending time before the ceremony to shoot. Yeah thats crazy talk to them.. They have no interest..
So how do I break this mold?
Well for about a year now I have been toying with the ideas of hiring models to shoot "The fairy tale wedding" or to seek out a few special clients to give my services away for a cheap rate. To get the images I want to display to potential clients.
Is this a bad thing? Seth seems to think its not bad at all..
Here's what I took away from the video. Think about your favorite photographer. Let's just pretend that the photographer you're thinking of is the following things (not a real person, but just examples):
- Is Male
- Lives in Texas
- Shoots Canon
- Shoots Primes
- Shoots in manual
- Meets clients in his home
- Gets albums from Kiss
- Shoots occasional destination weddings
- Uses off-camera flash
- Edits with Lightroom
- Has a unique perspective/eye
- Acts very professionally
- Always delivers products on time
- Has a good personality
- Charges 4k-8k
Ok, so that's just an imaginary list of a few things. So, assuming you're a male in Texas, what's different between him, you and everyone else in your city. Here's only potential things on the list:
- Meets clients in his home
- Has a unique perspective/eye
- Has a good personality
What do they have in common? They're very personal things. They're things that absolutely no other photographer has. Anything else that this photographer tries to market are virtually meaningless because any one of his competitors could say the exact same thing.
So, what I took from the video is that we need to investigate what these unique things are for ourselves and build our businesses around them. Things that no one else can offer. If that means you offer one package, no packages or 40 packages, so be it. As long as it's something that's about the unique thing that you can offer: yourself. Market that like crazy and stand apart from those who are simply 'professional, a good value, ect...'. Why? Because everyone else is too.
Enjoyed the video and thought he was spot on on with pretty much everything he said about photography.
His Domino project, on the other hand... sounds like the dumbest thing since the Eskimo refridgeration company. Well.. unless he just explained it poorly. it sounded like you when you buy a copy of his book you get 5, that you would then presumably spread around. he then points out that the average american buys ZERO books per year, so he feels his domino project will help his books reach all those Americans who wouldn't buy it.
IMHO that presumes that Americans aren't buying books 'cause they can't afford them, 'cause they don't know where the local barnes and Noble is, or because they haven't figured out that oh yeah, Walmart also sells books. Giving away books to people who aren't looking for books on their own is going to be as effective as giving me copies of Oprah episodes and soap operas on DVD on the assumption that I don't watch 'cause I'm working at that time.
But of course I could be wrong, or he could have left some crucial bit out.... like maybe the pages of the books are laced with crack cocaine or at least dipped in sugar.
Homey wrote:
After about 15 minutes of processing that video I have a couple of observations.
Doug. Great post. The only thing I would like to point out is your line about selling out.
Seth said selling out, in his field, would be to go the conventional route of the standard publishing. I.E. publishing his books with old established publishers. His Domino project is about giving stuff away to the masses first to get your name out. That is not selling out.. Its in fact the opposite.
As to the rest of the video. It has made me think about ideas I already had running through my head.
I do think he is right and now I am going to go forward with my plans I already had in place.
Let me explain.
First thing that I realized is that I am in fact in the business of selling average photos to average people. Is it my fault? Probably..
Most of my clients want wedding photos to just document the day. So basically they want me there so they can say "Hey look, we got married. Here is the proof, we have the photos to prove it"
I am not being hired to tell a story of the dream wedding the bride has dreamed of since she was a little girl. The clients do not want to spend any time shooting images in fabulous locals. They all seem to want the quickest they can get to get on to the reception.
Spending time before the ceremony to shoot. Yeah thats crazy talk to them.. They have no interest..
So how do I break this mold?
Well for about a year now I have been toying with the ideas of hiring models to shoot "The fairy tale wedding" or to seek out a few special clients to give my services away for a cheap rate. To get the images I want to display to potential clients.
Is this a bad thing? Seth seems to think its not bad at all..
If you go through with your plans with the models, be advised that the sacred FM inquisition will come after you if you show those images to clients without explicitly disclosing that those were model shots
ROFLMAO!!!
No I'm not even kidding. For reals. Try it. It's hilarious.
lisy78 wrote:
If you go through with your plans with the models, be advised that the sacred FM inquisition will come after you if you show those images to clients without explicitly disclosing that those were model shots
ROFLMAO!!!
No I'm not even kidding. For reals. Try it. It's hilarious.
Yeah I am fully aware of this..
I am actually one of those people who frowns upon people posting images from work shops and model sessions and claims them as wedding portfolio work.
Full disclosure would be involved. But it has several aspects that are appealing to me.
Fist would be that the 2 professional models I am going to use are an actual couple. So hopefully by the time I do the shoot they will have officially announced their engagement. So spending the day with them shooting all over at the best locals will be in fact an all day engagement shoot. The fact that they are models just helps me a great deal by them knowing the importance of great photos.
All mock wedding images I shoot with them will be different. Unless of course I get to shoot their wedding too in a timely manner. Though I think it won't be for at least another year.
Thats to far in the future for me.
The mock wedding will also give me several images I can use as advertising in the form of display images at the local bridal store. The woman who owns the store gives me a deal on renting a Tux and a dress. In return she gets great images to hang on the wall of the store. Photos of the dresses she sells and Tuxes she rents. All the while I get cheap marketing out of it.
Ultimately they should allow me to also discuss the importance of time with clients. If I have the images to show them I can more accurately describe for them what type of images I can provide for them.
I could then explain to them that they do not have to be professional models to get images like these on their wedding day. They only need to allow me time to work to achieve them. Allowing 30 minutes between the end of ceremony and beginning of the reception is not enough time. And getting these images should allow me to explain that to them or get more inquires from clients who already know that time is needed and have alloted it into the wedding day.
Jeff and I have been talking through what makes us different in our market, as well as what we can BEGIN doing that will make us stand out even more. It's been a really fun (and grueling) process. But SO necessary.
I just found out that three of my clients joined forces (they're related) to start a photography business. They're horrible. I mean... HORRIBLE. But they own cameras and have friends with kids. Isn't that all you need? Just like in the past when this has happened, we have clients who go to these new photographers for shoots that are practically being given away... then they come back to us for the real shoot. So I'm not worried about the influx of new "studios" in my area. Heck ONE of them still comes to me for their OWN kids' shoots. Hysterical.
BUT... we DO want to find even MORE ways to stand out so that there isn't even a HINT of likeness... either in style/vision/perspective or in what we offer.
Most photographers want to look the same as most other photographers. intitials surrounded by twirls for a logo. A blog template that everyone claims has an endless options for customization even though theirs looks no different to the thousands of others out there and work that looks the same as most other photographers.
I've thought about this because even when you try to point out that what someone is doing looks generic they defend it (like they have been personally attacked in some cases).
I wonder if many come into the industry feeling like they don't actually belong. What they want is not to be different but to be acknowledged by others as legitimate, an actual professional. For that reason looking like others is seen as a benchmark.
