p.1 #1 · Composition grid lines: 7D or focusing screen?
I've just ordered a Canon 7D to replace my old 400D. The 400D used a FocusingScreen.com screen with a diagonal split prism and scribed cross hairs to help keep my compositions level & plumb. With the new 7D, I figured I'd splurge for a KatzEye OptiBrite screen. I'm not wild about having to switch to a horizontal split prism, but I'm hoping the OptiBrite treatment will make it worth the switch.
My question is regarding the optional composition grids that can be scribed into the focusing screen. I love having these on my 400D's screen. Do those of you with 7D's find that the built-in grid that can be overlaid onto the viewfinder works well enough to eliminate the need for scribing crosshairs into the focusing screen? Or is it worth another $45 to have them scribed onto the focusing screen so they're always present?
I don't have the 7D yet (ordered last night), so I can't test it out yet. The majority of my lenses are MF, so I'd rather order the screen today so I don't have to do without it after the 7D arrives.
p.1 #2 · Composition grid lines: 7D or focusing screen?
i am not very savy on focusing screens but what exactly is the purpose? i am sure it helps you focus better but is it mainly for manual lenses? does it get in the way of the viewfinder... in other words limit the view of what you can actually see?
p.1 #3 · Composition grid lines: 7D or focusing screen?
Adamrose13: Yes, they're for manual lenses. Have you ever looked through the viewfinder of a 30-year-old SLR and seen the little circles & stuff in the middle of the window that helped you focus? Well, you can get those for most new DSLR's, too. It really doesn't get in the way at all, but if all your lenses are autofocus, they have limited use. This web page does a decent job of showing what they look like:
Speaking of that web site, I see that it actually shows the 7D grid lines. Is this what they really look like in use, or were those pictures toward the bottom of the page doctored? If the former, then that might answer my question about whether to get lines scribed onto the focusing screen. How quickly can you turn those 7D lines on & off?
p.1 #4 · Composition grid lines: 7D or focusing screen?
I have a 7D and there are menu options on the camera that allows you to overlay grids onto liveview, it's just a feature the camera has. It also has a leveling option, that is like a circle w/ crosshair type lines that helps you to make sure the your shot is level and not askew. I have never used a focusing screen so I don't know how it compares, but if I were you I would wait and play around with your 7D first, and then see if you need to buy a focusing screen. I had heard that the purpose of the grids was to act like focusing screens so you might not need to buy anything extra.
p.1 #5 · Composition grid lines: 7D or focusing screen?
adamrose13 wrote:
i am not very savy on focusing screens but what exactly is the purpose? i am sure it helps you focus better but is it mainly for manual lenses? does it get in the way of the viewfinder... in other words limit the view of what you can actually see?
Unless the camera has an electronic viewfinder (EVF), all DSLRs and similar cameras have a focusing screen. When you look through the viewfinder, the image you see is projected on the screen, so no, it doesn't get in the way of the viewfinder, it's an essential component of the viefinder.
Third-party focusing screens allow customizing the view for individual needs, and some offer a brighter image than the screen used by the OEM. To use one, you remove the OEM screen and replace it with the custom screen.
One company I almost went to work with -- a company that specialized in churn and burn "portraits" -- had all their photographers use cameras with screens that had an outline to show where to put the subjects' heads, so that they would all look the same for rapid (read "cheap") printing. They'd move into town and rent a hotel conference room for a weekend, and then get out of town before people had a chance to compare their "custom portraits" with their friends' and neighbors'.
But I digress. Custom screens can be useful for some people, and there's a large variety from which to choose.
p.1 #6 · Composition grid lines: 7D or focusing screen?
I haven't used a 7D in a while but if I recall, you can optionally turn on a sort of composition grid in the view finder to help keep things level. There is a level bubble display you can turn on but it's not something you'd use outside of setting up your camera on a tripod IMO.
As for manual focus, if you do any amount of that you'll want to replace the screen anyway. I grew up using that split prism on an old Nikon F and it's significantly better for manual focus than the screens we have nowadays. You could be practically blind and still get accurate focus with those things.
Of course, I had one of the very early AF cameras too and you could go make a sandwich while it acquired focus but I digress.
p.1 #7 · Composition grid lines: 7D or focusing screen?
My concern with these non-OEM screens (yes, I know they're cut from Canon 1D screens) would be proper shimming in the camera body, which is necessary for accurate MF. I went through this process when I had my 5D and a few different MF screens I tried. Canon sells "washers" in various sizes for the larger bodies, but do they for the 7D and other xxD's? I actually don't have a 7D (just some ancient 1N, 1Ds2, 1D2n and 10D), but I'd like a split-prism with grid lines for my 10D, as I've got grid screens in all my other bodies.
p.1 #8 · Composition grid lines: 7D or focusing screen?
Well, I ended up ordering the KatzEye screen with OptiBrite and no composition lines. The lines on the 7D's viewfinder LCD work just great, and its outermost lines are just a shade farther inboard than an 8x10 crop. No need to spend an extra $45 to duplicate those.
I already don't like the horizontal split image from the KatzEye nearly as much as the diagonal split of the FocusingScreen.com screen in my 400D. The KatzEye is considerably brighter at smaller apertures, though. I haven't used it on a lens slower than f/2.5 yet, but I expect it will be a godsend when using my Tele-Vivitar 400/5.6.
I also haven't verified the accuracy of the split prism using a test chart yet, but it *seems* pretty accurate when shooting candids at 50mm f/2. I'll try to break out the test chart this weekend.
p.1 #9 · Composition grid lines: 7D or focusing screen?
Obi-Wan wrote:
...I also haven't verified the accuracy of the split prism using a test chart yet, but it *seems* pretty accurate when shooting candids at 50mm f/2. I'll try to break out the test chart this weekend.
If it's not accurate, of course, you can use your 7D's AF Microadjust to tune it in.
You'll get used to the horizontal split quickly, I'm sure. The are so many vertical lines in the environment that finding one to focus on is usually no problem.
p.1 #10 · Composition grid lines: 7D or focusing screen?
BrianO wrote:
If it's not accurate, of course, you can use your 7D's AF Microadjust to tune it in.
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how will the micro adjust effect the slit image screen. MA works on the coms between the lens and the AF sensor. the AF sensor is in the base of the camera nowhere near the focus screen.
If the focus screen is out compared to the distance to the sensor then it would need to be either shimmed or made thinner .
p.1 #11 · Composition grid lines: 7D or focusing screen?
Ian.Dobinson wrote:
how will the micro adjust effect the slit image screen.
If a comparison between Live View and manual focus shows that the viewfinder is accurate, but after AF the image in the viewfinder is "off," that would be a case for MA.
You're right, though, that I should have been more clear. If the VF itself is off, then the screen needs to be shimmed.
p.1 #12 · Composition grid lines: 7D or focusing screen?
Obi-Wan wrote:
I've just ordered a Canon 7D to replace my old 400D. The 400D used a FocusingScreen.com screen with a diagonal split prism and scribed cross hairs to help keep my compositions level & plumb. With the new 7D, I figured I'd splurge for a KatzEye OptiBrite screen. I'm not wild about having to switch to a horizontal split prism, but I'm hoping the OptiBrite treatment will make it worth the switch.
My question is regarding the optional composition grids that can be scribed into the focusing screen. I love having these on my 400D's screen. Do those of you with 7D's find that the built-in grid that can be overlaid onto the viewfinder works well enough to eliminate the need for scribing crosshairs into the focusing screen? Or is it worth another $45 to have them scribed onto the focusing screen so they're always present?
I don't have the 7D yet (ordered last night), so I can't test it out yet. The majority of my lenses are MF, so I'd rather order the screen today so I don't have to do without it after the 7D arrives....Show more →
The 7D has grid lines in the optical VF and on the LCD. The ones in the VF look just like the old style grid screens of yesteryear, e.g., my FM2 and EOS A2E grid screens. A bit of a nostalgic rush. Very vintage vibe for such a friggen technie camera.
p.1 #13 · Composition grid lines: 7D or focusing screen?
BrianO, I don't think you read the original message. This new focusing screen and grid lines are to be used with manual focus lenses. You keep using the term "AF," which has no bearing on this discussion. Microadjust does not apply here, and even if it did, it would have no effect on the split image focusing screen.
p.1 #14 · Composition grid lines: 7D or focusing screen?
Obi-Wan wrote:
BrianO, I don't think you read the original message. This new focusing screen and grid lines are to be used with manual focus lenses. You keep using the term "AF," which has no bearing on this discussion.
Actually, you said "the majority" of your lenses are MF, not all of them.
Obi-Wan wrote:
...Microadjust does not apply here...
If you say so.
Obi-Wan wrote:
...and even if it did, it would have no effect on the split image focusing screen.
p.1 #15 · Composition grid lines: 7D or focusing screen?
MA is for AF lenses (and possibly focus confirm chips?) it has no bearing on the Manual Focus of a lens when you are using the viewfinder to focus (or live view)
What MA does is tell the body/lens combo to compensate the result the Phase Detect chip says is perfect focus. it ignors what you 'see' in the VF.
You could MA a lens perfectly so every AF shot results in the sharpest possible image, but you could look thru the VF and if the screen was out and think the camera was not focusing properly.
I'm sure you know it but the light path on an AF camera is:
light hits main mirror
MOST light is directed up into the pentaprism
SOME light passes thru the main mirror to a sub mirror and is directed DOWN to the Phase Detect chip.
p.1 #16 · Composition grid lines: 7D or focusing screen?
Ian.Dobinson wrote:
...You could MA a lens perfectly so every AF shot results in the sharpest possible image, but you could look thru the VF and if the screen was out and think the camera was not focusing properly.
Correct.
Now rearrange the variables to consider the flip side of the equation: If the screen is perfect but the AF is off, autofocused images will look out of focus in the VF because they are out of focus. This will be more visible on a split image circle than on a mat screen, because the two images will not line up.
If you then use AF MA to dial in the autofocus, the images on the split will line up better.
So while MA will not make a difference on the viewfinder appearance of manually focused images, it will make a difference on autofocused images.
