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Archive 2010 · How bad are Leica R lenses on a dSLR, when everybody is talking about Ze...

igmolinav
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p.1 #1 · How bad are Leica R lenses on a dSLR, when everybody is talking about Zeiss lenses?

Hi,

How good or how bad are Leica R lenses on a dSLR, when everybody is talking about Zeiss lenses : P ??

Perhaps my statement, (question), above is a bit exaggerated. However, the intention of this post is to explore with how much success I could adapt Leica R lenses to a Nikon or Canon dSLR. I would also like some other questions.

I read that Leica R lenses are only to be used with Canon cameras, and not with Nikon Cameras. Is this correct?

The lenses I may buy, may be older than ten years of age, perhaps between ten and thirty years of age. Is it worth it to buy a lens that is so old? Will the quality be so nice and high as that of a new Nikon, Canon L, or Zeiss lens?

The lenses I may be offered are the following:

24 mm, f/2.8
28 mm, f/2.8
35 mm, f/??, perhaps f/2, or f/1.4, or f/2.8
50 mm, f/1.4
60 mm, macro
Zoom 35-70 mm.

Please think of the price of any new Zeiss lens, perhaps the lens you are thinking on, is similar in focal length to any of the above. What is the price I should be paying for any of these lenses after twenty years of use?? For example, two persons are also offering me as an option to any of the lenses the opportunity to buy a Leica R4s body. The R4s are at least twenty two years old. I just wonder how much I should pay for any of the lenses. In my view, (that may even be laughable), a lens after some twenty years shouldn't be that expensive. What do you think?

The other thing is, I don't have a dSLR yet. I was thinking on a used Canon 5D, (not the Mark II), or perhaps my old Nikon 50D. So one may ask one self, how do I evaluate if a lens is in sound mechanical conditions. I mean, I may have the opportunity to buy any of the two lenses (for a good price), before I buy the camera.

Thank you very much, kind regards,

igmolinav : ) !!!

Nov 03, 2010 at 12:52 PM

jcolwell
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p.1 #2 · How bad are Leica R lenses on a dSLR, when everybody is talking about Zeiss lenses?

There are many threads here on the Alternatives forum that show that Leica-R work beautifully on modern DSLR bodies. I have Summicron-R 35/2. 50/2 and 90/2, as well as Contax Zeiss 28/2.8, 45/2.8, 85/1.4, and 135/2.8, that I shoot on my 5D and 1DsIII bodies. A lot of people are talking about Zeiss, because they are really good, and there's lots of them around; both the old ones (Contax C/Y is my favourite) and the new ones, ZF, ZE, and etc. I don't think it's fair to say that Zeiss lenses are better than Leica; they're different. I think that some of the Zeiss have better microcontrast (high resolving power for small detail), but the Leica's have better colour saturation and bokeh (at least, the 'crons do). A lot of the satisfaction with a particular lens is based on purely subjective criteria. IOW, you'll have to try some and find out for yourself. Welcome aboard.

It looks like you're new to this 'pursuit', so I'll dump a whole lot of reading on you. Some of it is general information about using manual focus lenses on modern DSLR bodies, and some is specific to the Zeiss/Leica brands. You'll find that there are often many 'versions' of a particular Leica-R lens (say 28/2.8 Elmarit), and that image quality can vary quite a lot between them. The same can be said about many brands, but Leica seems to offer the most things to find out about. Good luck!

Bob Atkins http://www.bobatkins.com/photography/eosfaq/manual_focus_EOS.html
NK Guy http://photonotes.org/articles/eos-manual-lenses
Harold Merklinger's The INs and OUTs of Focus http://www.trenholm.org/hmmerk/#TIAOOF
Markerink mounts and registers http://www.markerink.org/WJM/HTML/mounts.htm
Oleson's lens mounts http://members.tripod.com/rick_oleson/index-99.html

Pentax to EOS alt lens questions, https://www.fredmiranda.com/forum/topic/718836
Altering Pentax K Mount to Canon Eos 5D https://www.fredmiranda.com/forum/topic2/574010
M42 telephoto http://www.photo.net/bboard/q-and-a-fetch-msg?msg_id=00J01o&tag=
Pentax K and M42 http://www.photo.net/bboard/q-and-a-fetch-msg?msg_id=00ExzY

Nikon to EOS http://www.photo.net/bboard/q-and-a-fetch-msg?msg_id=00JBXb
5D Contax adapter http://www.photo.net/bboard/q-and-a-fetch-msg?msg_id=00LgIJ
5D and Zeiss lenses https://www.fredmiranda.com/forum/topic2/499803
Tuning Contax-Zeiss adapters to Canon lenses https://www.fredmiranda.com/forum/topic/401854/3#lastmessage
Non-CPU lenses on 5D https://www.fredmiranda.com/forum/topic2/469342

16-9.net Canon 5D Adapted Lens Compatibility lists http://www.16-9.net/lens_tests/compatible.html
Contax Canon compatibility database http://www.pebbleplace.com/Personal/Contax_db.html
Canon Leica-R compatibility database http://www.pebbleplace.com/Personal/Leica_db.html
Zeiss/Oly 5D compatibility https://www.fredmiranda.com/forum/topic/306575
M42 5D compatibility http://www.panoramaplanet.de/comp/

Leitax conversion http://www.leitax.com/

Erwin Puts TAO of Leica (home) http://www.imx.nl/photo/
Erwin Puts Leica R SN list http://www.imx.nl/photo/leica/lenses/lenses/lenses/page91.html
Erwin Puts R Lens "columns" http://tinyurl.com/3a5c98r
Andrew Nemeth Leica FAQ http://www.nemeng.com/leica/index.shtml
Antique Cameras Leica R lenses http://antiquecameras.net/leicarlenses.html
Leonard Foo MIR Leica R lenses http://www.photoethnography.com/ClassicCameras/index-frameset.html?Lens-R.html~mainFrame
Leica Historical Society of America (LHSA) http://www.lhsa.org/
Neils Nielsen Leica R SN list http://www.forloren.dk/lbf/leica_lens_serial.htm
Spiritus Temporus http://www.spiritus-temporis.com/leica/list-of-leica-cameras-and-lenses.html

Nov 03, 2010 at 01:12 PM

cogitech
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p.1 #3 · How bad are Leica R lenses on a dSLR, when everybody is talking about Zeiss lenses?

Zeissaholism is due mainly to the fact that modern photographers tend to be fixated on two relatively basic aspects of photography; sharpness and contrast. Indeed these are two aspects of the same thing, and Zeiss gets them right more often than not. The result is that most Zeiss lenses, both new and old, can produce really "punchy", contrasty images with very saturated colour. This drawing style lends itself well to certain types of images, particularly landscapes, but at other times it is not so desirable. Some Zeiss lenses have other faults, such as distortion, CA, or edgy bokeh which make them intolerable for some shooters and troublesome for some types of work. They are also not known for a consistent look and colour profile across the range (this it one area where Leica excels).

To be sure, as Jim said, Zeiss lenses are not better than Leica lenses (or any other lenses) they are just different. Some Zeiss lenses could be considered better at certain types of images than some other lenses, but the inverse is true as well (and subjective opinion plays a huge role).

So try the Leicas if you have the chance. There are many people around here who would love to use that set of lenses, and your skill with the camera is far more important than the lens choice anyway. Good luck!

Nov 03, 2010 at 01:39 PM

kawasakiguy37
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p.1 #4 · How bad are Leica R lenses on a dSLR, when everybody is talking about Zeiss lenses?

realistically you should probably use a combo of Zeiss and Leica. Get the best of both worlds. For example the Zeiss 21 2.8 is an amazing lens in my opinion, probably unrivalved by that of Leica. But Leicas 90/2.....well that just is a better lens than Zeiss's 85 1.4 (unless you need the 1.4)

Nov 03, 2010 at 01:46 PM

cogitech
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p.1 #5 · How bad are Leica R lenses on a dSLR, when everybody is talking about Zeiss lenses?

kawasakiguy37 wrote:
realistically you should probably use a combo of Zeiss and Leica.

Or neither. Or a random mix of whatever works.

Some the the best photographers around here use all Zuikos, or a mishmash of Takumars, Nikkors and Russian lenses, or.... whatever.

It doesn't matter nearly as much as one might imagine it does.

Nov 03, 2010 at 01:52 PM

douglasf13
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p.1 #6 · How bad are Leica R lenses on a dSLR, when everybody is talking about Zeiss lenses?

The Leica 50 Summicron R is great on the A900, with that big viewfinder. I also loved the SMC Takumar 50/1.4.

Nov 03, 2010 at 01:58 PM

RustyBug
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p.1 #7 · How bad are Leica R lenses on a dSLR, when everybody is talking about Zeiss lenses?

They are all bad ... very bad.

None of those Leica's will be any good on any of your cameras. But as a charitable gesture, I'd be willing to take them off your hands to make sure they receive proper disposal. Just to show you how charitable I can be, I'll even pay for the shipping.

Actually, I haven't played with any Leica's yet, but am envious of your situation. Good luck and enjoy.

Nov 03, 2010 at 02:04 PM

gasrocks
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p.1 #8 · How bad are Leica R lenses on a dSLR, when everybody is talking about Zeiss lenses?

Perspective: I now have 6 Leica R lenses and only 5 Zeiss.

Nov 03, 2010 at 02:11 PM

sebboh
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p.1 #9 · How bad are Leica R lenses on a dSLR, when everybody is talking about Zeiss lenses?

a vaguely relevant but dated opinion on the internet: http://www.luminous-landscape.com/columns/sm-02-11-17.shtml

both are very good, each have their own extremely good lenses and less good lenses. one of the reasons for zeiss's popularity is the fact that they make brand new lenses.

Nov 03, 2010 at 02:29 PM

PhilH
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p.1 #10 · How bad are Leica R lenses on a dSLR, when everybody is talking about Zeiss lenses?

I agree with others. Both are good, but there are some focal lengths/lenses that Zeiss and Leica both respectively excel in.

I'd grab that Leica 60mm f/2.8 Macro up. As others mentioned the Zeiss 21mm f/2.8 Distagon currently is really unrivaled at that focal length and it's been that way for some time.

I meet a lot of folks who went one way or the other for some reason, but rarely people who have shot or own both brands. They are both solid in their own ways. Just depends on what you're after.

Nov 03, 2010 at 03:03 PM

Edgars Kalnins
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p.1 #11 · How bad are Leica R lenses on a dSLR, when everybody is talking about Zeiss lenses?

I would suggest you flick through the very long Zeiss image thread and Leica R thread, that will give you a general idea of differences. I use a mixture of Contax and Leica. I have also had 4 moder Zeiss lenses. The new Zeiss is certainly crisper and very sharp. Leica seems to me to have very saturated colors and more macro contrast (as opposed to micro). I have been trying to tell the difference between Zeiss and Leica for years - it is visible in pictures but hard to put in words. Quite a few people on net claim that Leica is better for portraits (skin comes out better). You will have to try both to decide which you like more.
A note of warning - when looking at pictures of Leica R, have a look at Leica M thread as well, you will get a better idea. Problem is, Zeiss thread has a lot more contributors and therefore on the whole has better pictures. no offense intended to Leica R users - I am one myself.

Nov 03, 2010 at 03:09 PM

Alf Beharie
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p.1 #12 · How bad are Leica R lenses on a dSLR, when everybody is talking about Zeiss lenses?

kawasakiguy37 wrote:
realistically you should probably use a combo of Zeiss and Leica. Get the best of both worlds. For example the Zeiss 21 2.8 is an amazing lens in my opinion, probably unrivalved by that of Leica.

You forgetting the Leica 19mm f2.8 R?

kawasakiguy37 wrote:
But Leicas 90/2.....well that just is a better lens than Zeiss's 85 1.4 (unless you need the 1.4)

But it is'nt better than a Canon FD 85mm f1.2 L...And the Canon will always be considerably cheaper.

Nov 03, 2010 at 03:28 PM

JohnJ
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p.1 #13 · How bad are Leica R lenses on a dSLR, when everybody is talking about Zeiss lenses?

cogitech wrote:
...It doesn't matter nearly as much as one might imagine it does.

+1

Also, have a good sniff around Erwin Puts' site (one of the links in Jims reply. Erwin is very good at describing the performance of the lenses. I think he is probably the best Leica resource on the net. He had a pdf that described every lens and a whole bunch of other info but seems to be gone now. Maybe that's the stuff that will be in the upcoming book mentioned on the site.

JJ

Nov 03, 2010 at 05:04 PM

Alf Beharie
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p.1 #14 · How bad are Leica R lenses on a dSLR, when everybody is talking about Zeiss lenses?

igmolinav wrote:
Hi,

How good or how bad are Leica R lenses on a dSLR, when everybody is talking about Zeiss lenses : P ??

Its true that Leica make some very good lenses and Carl Zeiss do too but not every single lens they make is great...Only some of their lenses are really great, the rest being fairly average.
And thats the same with lenses from all lens manufacturers, whether it be Canon, Nikon, Voightlander, Pentax, Olympus, Sigma, Angenieux, Mamiya, Rollei, Rodenstock, Hasselblad etc, etc...In other words, the manufacturer or brand of the lens is'nt that important. The trick is trying to weed out the good lenses from the not so good, no matter who makes them, so you end up with a collection of only the best lenses around.

igmolinav wrote:
I read that Leica R lenses are only to be used with Canon cameras, and not with Nikon Cameras. Is this correct?

No its not. That was probably written by someone who had discovered that a commercially made Leica R-Nikon adapter is not available or is perhaps impossible
to make.
But they obviously did'nt know that it is possible to convert Leica R lenses from Leica R mount to Nikon mount...Few would be brave to attempt it though, given the high price of Leica lenses.

Nov 03, 2010 at 05:20 PM

cuonghuutran
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p.1 #15 · How bad are Leica R lenses on a dSLR, when everybody is talking about Zeiss lenses?

Edgars Kalnins wrote:
I would suggest you flick through the very long Zeiss image thread and Leica R thread, that will give you a general idea of differences. I use a mixture of Contax and Leica. I have also had 4 moder Zeiss lenses. The new Zeiss is certainly crisper and very sharp. Leica seems to me to have very saturated colors and more macro contrast (as opposed to micro). I have been trying to tell the difference between Zeiss and Leica for years - it is visible in pictures but hard to put in words. Quite a few people on net...Show more →

+1 on your assessment on Zeiss vs. Leica.
I had Zeiss 21mm ZE, 35mm f2 ZE, 35mm f1.4, 100mm macro f2 ZE, and 85mm 1.2 Jahre 50th year anniversary. Now I have mostly Leica and still have Zeiss 85mm 1.2.

Zeiss photos are crisp and have 3D look. For my personal taste, they are wonderful for scenics. For portraits, I prefer Leica look. It's more natural and skin rendering is nicer. BTW, Leica is still very sharp (my Leica 19mm is indeed sharper than my Zeiss 21mm at center but softer at corners when wide open).

Nov 03, 2010 at 05:27 PM

sebboh
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p.1 #16 · How bad are Leica R lenses on a dSLR, when everybody is talking about Zeiss lenses?

Alf Beharie wrote:
No its not. That was probably written by someone who had discovered that a commercially made Leica R-Nikon adapter is not available or is perhaps impossible
to make.
But they obviously did'nt know that it is possible to convert Leica R lenses from Leica R mount to Nikon mount...Few would be brave to attempt it though, given the high price of Leica lenses.

but enough are that somebody makes and sells the specific replacement mounts and instructions: http://www.leitax.com/leica-lens-for-nikon-cameras.html

Nov 03, 2010 at 05:28 PM

philip_pj
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p.1 #17 · How bad are Leica R lenses on a dSLR, when everybody is talking about Zeiss lenses?

Interesting issue for alt lens users. And fine information, well balanced and informative. There has been a drop off in general threads about Leica lately, but it was not always so, and the great work in the Leica threads are still going strong.

It may be to do with the release of the ZE/ZF series made specifically for modern DSLRs, putting CZ in the public view more in recent months.

I think each person has to decide what look you want for your intended subject matter, what your personal desired qualities are. For example, mine are, in order: depth/3D/presence (the step into the photo look), top flight micro-contrast for 'gritty' detail rendition with good overall contrast, hue separation and 'deep' colour, great centre resolution and excellent corners, defined but less image-critical bokeh, all with a film look. So I shoot with Contax lenses, developed in the film era, for travel and landscapes.

Best regards for your journey.

Nov 03, 2010 at 06:08 PM

igmolinav
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p.1 #18 · How bad are Leica R lenses on a dSLR, when everybody is talking about Zeiss lenses?

Hi,

Thank you for your messages : ) !!! Tomorrow I'll be talking with the two gentlemen who are selling the lenses. Let's see how much they want for the lenses. I am inclined to get the 24 mm. for my documentary work. For portraiture and macro work, I have a Hasselblad (Zeiss) 120 mm. f/4

To try the lens, I will try it on the camera body that the seller has.

Very kind regards, I will tell you how it goes : ) !!!

Nov 03, 2010 at 07:39 PM

s23chang
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p.1 #19 · How bad are Leica R lenses on a dSLR, when everybody is talking about Zeiss lenses?

I don't know about you but I do have 10 Leica R lens for my Canon DSLR bodies right now and they're all very good balance in terms of color reproduction / contrast / bokeh / sharpness.

Elmerit
19/2.8 ver 2
28/2.8 ver 2
35/2.8 E55
Summicron
35/2 E55 ver 2
50/2 ver 1
90/2 E55 ver 2
180/2 APO
Summilux
35/1.4
80/1.4
and the telephoto 350/4.8

I use them all about equal except occational long lens.

How many Zeiss now?
I had about 8 but now only down to 2 as I sold most of them.

The mechanical quality of Leica is by far the best.
The optical design has the best balance for me.

When cost is no object, my all time favorite lens is still the 180/2 APO.
The compact size and the sharpness/contrast is by far the best lens I have use at wide open at F2. Sure one can argue about the 180/2.8 APO but it is not F2 lens and it doesn't have the bokeh of the F2.
It is lighter and smaller than the Canon 200 IS F2 which it is hard to get around than the Leica. The focus ring feel is great.

No zeiss or Canon lens made me feel so motivated to use and take some shots with it.

Too bad that Leica stop producing such nice optics for the R series.
Zeiss and Canon are out doing themselves for the new optics. It is good for everyone who loves new lens.

I do like my Canon 24/1.4 L II for low light as well as the 70-200 2.8 IS II for AF purpose that goes with action. What I missed here is the solid focus ring.

Nov 03, 2010 at 07:57 PM

RustyBug
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p.1 #20 · How bad are Leica R lenses on a dSLR, when everybody is talking about Zeiss lenses?

With respect to Leica vs. Ziess, two words ... "Drawing Style"

It isn't an issue of which is better, but rather which do you prefer? Some of the Leica have the Leica "glow" others do not, some have amazing clarity / depth others do not. Some Zeiss has excellent 3D-ishness others do not. Some have great contrast, others, not so much.

Each lens has it's own characteristics & attributes. Matching the "Drawing Style" of glass to your shooting style (highly individualized characteristics & attributes as well) is where the 'rubber meets the road' imo.

Nov 03, 2010 at 09:00 PM

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