p.2 #2 · Future of Mac OS, Apple censorship and Windows 7
kakomu wrote:
Apple has done a fair amount to lock their computer down from certain software. For instance, you can't install XCode with iPhone development tools on a Mac that has a PowerPC processor. What does this mean? The really expensive (at the time) Power Mac G5 in my office is useless as far as developing applications for an iPhone or iPod Touch (and you can only develop iPhone/iPod applications on a Mac).
Oh come on, if you're running your own server you must know enough about computers to know the answer to that.
PowerPC has a completely different instruction set and apple is moving away from it. All of their latest apps using their newest toys don't support PowerPC. Heck they haven't sold a PowerPC machine in years. It's like asking "Why can't I get the latest Visual Studio on a Floppy Disc? They were cutting edge and cost a fortune in '89"
p.2 #3 · Future of Mac OS, Apple censorship and Windows 7
ai3x wrote:
PowerPC has a completely different instruction set and apple is moving away from it. All of their latest apps using their newest toys don't support PowerPC. Heck they haven't sold a PowerPC machine in years. It's like asking "Why can't I get the latest Visual Studio on a Floppy Disc? They were cutting edge and cost a fortune in '89"
As far as the "intrusction set" is considered, that's not a valid argument. You can actually hack the XCode installation to install the iPhone development tools on to a PowerPC system with full capability. Link. It's roundabout and hacks with OS X aren't my cup of tea (which is why I don't do it), but it's possible.
The fact is, Apple is locking people who own PowerPC Macs and play by the rules out of using these development tools. PowerPC Macs were sold as recently as 4 years ago (late 2006) and the iPhone was released only 3 years ago. It basically shows just how short a period of time Apple maintains their operating systems and how quickly they're willing to lock out their users.
It's not like a PowerPC G5 was sold in 1989. We're talking about computers that are only a few years old. People who purchased a PowerPC in 2006 got it pretty badly from Apple when they started locking out PowerPC computers from using certain components (the biggest being OS X 10.6). Mac Mini Power PCs were sold as late as 2007.
I know the next argument is considering the PowerPC Mac an "old" computer, which is also specious. I regularly use older hardware all the time. I replaced a laptop last year that was 6 years old when I accidentally broke the screen. If I hadn't broken the screen, I'd still be using it (and it would be 7 years old this year). I just won't use old Apple hardware because I know that it doesn't have a future. Even older Intel Macs are being phased out of support (namely those with Core Solo processors that lack 64-bit support) for some features and programs.
p.2 #4 · Future of Mac OS, Apple censorship and Windows 7
I purchased a Nikon D1H early in 2003 for just under $3k ... 18 months later it was worth less on the street than the cost to repair a spent shutter ... that's the nature of the digital realm ... nothing lasts forever ...
It's true Apple turned it's back on PowerPC ... but ... if you recall, they and third party software developers kept hanging on the old 64k architecture for quite some time ... Ever wonder how much more could have been accomplished if resources were not spent on the past? How much in resources and man hours could Windows developers save and apply elsewhere if they didn't have to be concerned with maintaining compatibility for XP and place their attentions solely on Windows 7?
Technology moves on ... sometimes it is tough to face it ...
p.2 #5 · Future of Mac OS, Apple censorship and Windows 7
kakomu wrote:
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The fact is, Apple is locking people who own PowerPC Macs and play by the rules out of using these development tools. PowerPC Macs were sold as recently as 4 years ago (late 2006) and the iPhone was released only 3 years ago. It basically shows just how short a period of time Apple maintains their operating systems and how quickly they're willing to lock out their users.
Microsoft ended support for Windows XP SP2 in 2010 and it was only released in 2004. It ended support for Windows Vista with no service packs in 2010 when it was only released in 2007. Why is Microsoft not being accused of "locking out its own users"? I don't think phasing out old architecture or software should be equated with locking out users.
p.2 #6 · Future of Mac OS, Apple censorship and Windows 7
mdude85 wrote:
Microsoft ended support for Windows XP SP2 in 2010 and it was only released in 2004. It ended support for Windows Vista with no service packs in 2010 when it was only released in 2007. Why is Microsoft not being accused of "locking out its own users"?
When Microsoft talks about "support", they refer to security patches and updates. (as a footnote service pack 3 for XP is free and has extended support until 2014 as is service pack 1 for Vista, which has extended support until 2017).
I cannot see how ending support for (security patches and updaets) can be considered the same as locking users out of installing software. The fact is, you can still install a lot of software on OSes of the past. This includes Visual Studio 2010.
mdude85 wrote:
I don't think phasing out old architecture or software should be equated with locking out users.
There is a marked difference between phasing out an old architecture and locking PPC Mac owners out of Xcode's iPhone utilities. I can understand if Apple specifically designed the software to run on Intel macs (as it seems that you have to use a different binary for each version). However, that's not the case. The iPhone utilities can be installed via a hack of the installer (not of the actual program, mind you). Apple specifically prevented people from installing the software on PPC Macs.
p.2 #7 · Future of Mac OS, Apple censorship and Windows 7
kakomu wrote:
I cannot see how ending support for (security patches and updaets) can be considered the same as locking users out of installing software. The fact is, you can still install a lot of software on OSes of the past. This includes Visual Studio 2010.
There is a marked difference between phasing out an old architecture and locking PPC Mac owners out of Xcode's iPhone utilities. I can understand if Apple specifically designed the software to run on Intel macs (as it seems that you have to use a different binary for each version). However, that's not the case. The iPhone utilities can be installed via a hack of the installer (not of the actual program, mind you). Apple specifically prevented people from installing the software on PPC Macs. ...Show more →
Sure, and you can still install "a lot" of current software on PPC Macs, so what's the big deal? How is there a difference if the reason that PPC Mac owners are being "locked" out is because the old architecture is being phased out? I just think you're making a big deal of a practice that nearly every company similar to Apple engages in.
p.2 #8 · Future of Mac OS, Apple censorship and Windows 7
mdude85 wrote:
Sure, and you can still install "a lot" of current software on PPC Macs, so what's the big deal? How is there a difference if the reason that PPC Mac owners are being "locked" out is because the old architecture is being phased out? I just think you're making a big deal of a practice that nearly every company similar to Apple engages in.
Because it's not the same practice. In the case I bring to the table, the Xcode development tools were already programmed and available for PPC Macs. The iPhone development tools are compatible with Xcode for PPC Macs and can even be installed with some hacking of the installer.
It's that Apple saw fit to lock PPC Mac users out of the tools that are not only compatible, but also included in the installer! If you purchased a Power Mac in 2006, you would have been SOL in 2007 when the iPhone was released and the dev tools became available. Quite possibly, less than 1 year after purchased of a multi-thousand dollar computer. So, we're not talking about old hardware at the time (or now, for that matter).
It's, essentially, a flag built into the Xcode installer to not install the iPhone components if the process isn't Intel-based. Its purpose seems to be for no other reason than to drive PPC Mac users toward Intel Macs, which, I guess, is why the secondary market for PPC Macs has dried up markedly (note that the extremely low prices of Power Mac G5s on ebay).
But, please, provide an example of a piece of software that won't install for superficial reasons, but is fully compatible with the OS.
p.2 #9 · Future of Mac OS, Apple censorship and Windows 7
PowerPC died because Motorola was did not stay in the PC CPU manufacturing business and compete with Intel. Motorola did not keep Microsoft support for Windows. There was not enough market share to make it all profitable with just Apple Macs. Motorola was wise to concentrate on their core strengths instead.
Reality forced the migration to Intel based hardware for Macs. That was a good move as Intel is on the leading edge of processor development. Adoption of PC hardware (PCIe, SATA, etc.) leads to more options for Mac development.
Support of any operating system has a time limit. At that point you have to stay with the final version or buy a new computer and upgrade to the current stuff. Same is true for Windoze as it is with Mac.
p.2 #10 · Future of Mac OS, Apple censorship and Windows 7
I was curious what kind of pics you process on a glossy screen so well.........but no web site.....no posts to any of the photo forums.......just gear forums......Hmmmm....
p.2 #11 · Future of Mac OS, Apple censorship and Windows 7
Peter Le wrote:
I was curious what kind of pics you process on a glossy screen so well.........but no web site.....no posts to any of the photo forums.......just gear forums......Hmmmm....
As an earlier poster noted, CRT screens were all glossy. No whining then.
p.2 #12 · Future of Mac OS, Apple censorship and Windows 7
Peter Le wrote:
I was curious what kind of pics you process on a glossy screen so well.........but no web site.....no posts to any of the photo forums.......just gear forums......Hmmmm....
Try http://www.ellisvener.com , all processed on a well calibrated and profiled ( X-rite Colormunki) 27" late 2009 i5 iMac (glossy screen). . I believe Martin Evening , http://www.martinevening.com is using the same machine (maybe the i7 version).
None of my commercial, advertising, fine art, graphic design, public relations or editorial clients complain about the work I do for them.
p.2 #13 · Future of Mac OS, Apple censorship and Windows 7
E-Vener wrote:
Try http://www.ellisvener.com , all processed on a well calibrated and profiled ( X-rite Colormunki) 27" late 2009 i5 iMac (glossy screen). . I believe Martin Evening , http://www.martinevening.com is using the same machine (maybe the i7 version).
None of my commercial, advertising, fine art, graphic design, public relations or editorial clients complain about the work I do for them.
ouch.....OK..OK I see your point......but I find flat non-glossy screen easier to work with. But your work is very good and Martin is beyond good so I see your point....but still prefer non-gloss.........Peter
Besides I was referring to abqnmusa`s post above (before he edited his post)I did not agree with what he was saying.....and when I read something I do not agree with I usually look to see their work. When no website or posted work is available I question it even more.....
p.2 #14 · Future of Mac OS, Apple censorship and Windows 7
I dumped Mac a long time ago when they killed PowerComputing licenced Macs.
What they did with the Ipad and Flash is an example of how apple is arrogant and has no consideration for it's core professional users. Scores of graphic designers are heavily invested in
flash so along come Apple with it's new toy the ipad behind which they put all their marketing might, but no support for flash.
p.2 #15 · Future of Mac OS, Apple censorship and Windows 7
FredBGG wrote:
I dumped Mac a long time ago when they killed PowerComputing licenced Macs.
What they did with the Ipad and Flash is an example of how apple is arrogant and has no consideration for it's core professional users. Scores of graphic designers are heavily invested in
flash so along come Apple with it's new toy the ipad behind which they put all their marketing might, but no support for flash.
The question is: Should the world revolve around Flash, or should Flash evolve to fit the marketplace?
It was efficiency of operation and the reasonable use of battery power that forced Apple to forego Flash on iOS ... Not arrogance ...
You can run the same video in HTML5 with far less processor load and power consumption than in a Flash player ... Which can be very important for mobile devices ... Adobe seems to think those goals are not worthy of effort ...
p.2 #16 · Future of Mac OS, Apple censorship and Windows 7
There isn't really any indication at all that Apple is even targeting "core professional users" with the iPad. Apple is casting a wide net for both professionals and casual users, but probably heavily skewed toward casual users. Whether it's "arrogant," I'm not certain, but it's led to scores of developers abandoning Flash altogether. Nobody is being forced to buy an iPad, and so if consumers wanted to reject it on the basis of not having Flash support then they would have done so already. I agree with butchM that Flash should make itself relevant to whatever hardware is being sold at the time, not the other way around.
I personally think that efficiency of operation and battery life were not the only reasons that Apple abandoned Flash. It was also a political move. The Quicktime format is not particularly efficient either and yet it's Apple's standard for video.
p.2 #17 · Future of Mac OS, Apple censorship and Windows 7
butchM wrote:
The question is: Should the world revolve around Flash, or should Flash evolve to fit the marketplace?
It was efficiency of operation and the reasonable use of battery power that forced Apple to forego Flash on iOS ... Not arrogance ...
You can run the same video in HTML5 with far less processor load and power consumption than in a Flash player ... Which can be very important for mobile devices ... Adobe seems to think those goals are not worthy of effort ...
Do you mean Apple cannot produce hardware that is capable of running flash? Running flash efficently? And so Adobe needs to change flash to support unefficent Apple? Quite interesting. Should we all stop using HD video if my 5year old laptop cannot handle it?
Also, why does Apple care if app that I use drains battery in 1 hour? If i need, let it be 10min, thhat's my decision (and right) to use it or not, Apple should not control that!
p.2 #18 · Future of Mac OS, Apple censorship and Windows 7
Why cant some one develop an app that is actually useful to a pro photog on an Ipad or Iphone?
With out access to the source exifi info of the file with the ability to change and save onto the device its basically useless. I would love to download an app that could see and change the exe info,meta and IPTC and save to say a mem card or FTP. But i'm treated like a child who isnt trusted with that sort of user privilege. Great hardwear but some time real soon Android or Win 7 phone os will give a compelling reason to move on.
p.2 #19 · Future of Mac OS, Apple censorship and Windows 7
The biggest issue with the change in support from PowerPC Macs to the Intel based ones is the software architecture. Trying to maintain support for an older and very different software architecture makes costs run much higher, plus being able to run both code sets from the standpoint of the developer is a losing proposition itself. The two chipsets have very different ways of running the software, not just RISC vs CISC either, but that's most of it.
Apple isn't "turning it's back on PowerPC" they're moving forward, and this important and wise move to Intel CPUs (and other smart business & technical issues too) is the reason. Oh well.
The reason you will hear more Apple users up in arms in a more emotional way like you is due to your higher passion for the platform. Most Windows users just don't give a rip, most Mac users give a very big rip, and therefore rip into Apple Inc. much more often.
p.2 #20 · Future of Mac OS, Apple censorship and Windows 7
Oh and BTW, we "pros" are a very small segment of the market, so Apple AND Microsoft cater to that market, more users, more $$$$.
Don't think for a minute that Microsoft cares about you any more, or less.
As far as Microsoft making their environment "open", yeah, think again. On one side you have Apple trying to make their systems run like an appliance. How often have you ever had to "reboot" your oven, refrigerator, toaster oven, even car?
Then there's Microsoft who is trying to be all things to all people, and still dragging 100's of millions of lines of old software architecture behind them. This is why the iPad, cloud computing, and app stores are killing dear old Microsoft. They can no longer be nimble enough to do that, just ask a professional software developer, they have to work like hell to get their stuff to work amidst all the M/S patch hell they live in every week.
Use a Mac, it just works. Support smaller developers, they make good simple software that works too.
