p.3 #1 · Sigma 85 vs 85L II, round 4: printed page
Jim Victory wrote:
I would like to point out that the OP did these test because people requested them. Look at the other threads and you will see that several people asked the OP to do this.
I think he is very accommodating and at this point, if I was him, I would tell all of you complainers to shove it. Go buy the lens and test it yourself.
Jim
+1
faremax wrote:
I saw all of his threads and did not find any real life shots. Maybe you can post link(s) to those threads? All I saw were shots of the newspaper. Since I do not shoot newspaper (and I am sure 99% of people here don't) I see this test as completely irrelevant and useless. Not just that, I see it as being manufactured because things just don't add up.
Yea, it didn't add up because it cost only half of what we paid for the 85L2?? The lens sample section at POTN have atleast 7 pages of hands on review of this lens, and quite a few people have done some 'real world' test on the lens, and more people over there have ordered this lens in the past few days so rest assure, you will see LOTS of 'real world' test from different users, but for now...the least you get from the OP is initial preview of the lens, what hasn't he covered so far?
CA, check
Sharpness, check
AF, check
would you have written off this lens if the test were being done by photozone, the-digital-picture.com, or someone else? i guess so....because those reviewers also used some sort of 'test chart' to gauge the sharpness of a lens. It doesn't matter who did the test, it's only for reference, we still haven't factor in copy variation! Useless?? Irrelevant?? how rude! What have YOU contribute to the community to show some hands on preview/review of a new lens or camera recently? real world test or otherwise... Go get your own copy and do another "useful and relevant" test so you can show us what ya got then!
p.3 #2 · Sigma 85 vs 85L II, round 4: printed page
Wow, did some DPR folks make their way over to this great forum Go back home to DPR where you can b!tch and complain about something you don't like all day long.
Thanks OP. Though I'm not a huge fan of testing lenses and pixel peeping, I can appreciate what this test can help me see. It's just one of many evaluators that moves my decision one way or the other to try either lens myself.
p.3 #3 · Sigma 85 vs 85L II, round 4: printed page
corndog wrote:
Corner sharpness wide open is irrelevant until your subject matter is in the corner, and perhaps we're looking at more than sharpness in the corners? How about CA? Is CA irrelevant in the corners?
Yeah, irrelevant... Unless you're talking about Zeiss lenses then suddenly it makes all the difference in the world.
p.3 #4 · Sigma 85 vs 85L II, round 4: printed page
Kudos to the OP. You have gone way out of your way accommodate all sorts of requests and done so cheerfully. I am interested in the "Sigma 85 Story" and have followed all of your "test" threads. Indeed, when taken all together it is a fairly comprehensive evaluation of the lens on a "vs." basis. There are lots of "real world" samples floating around, but almost no direct comparisons. Thanks for adding another bit of information to the decision making process for many of us.
Lets all play nice. If you are someone who finds this thread "irrelevant/useless" then click the back button and find something you do like (and if you have continued to follow this thread this far and are still calling irrelevant, you are a glutton for punishment). Taking the time to post something negative is just a way to demean anyone who was following the thread with interest, in a juvenile effort to establish the "real world superiority" of your point of view. Why not suggest other subject matter without the superiority. You make a lot more friends that way.
Best of luck to ya' if being negative on the web is how you choose to spend your time.
p.3 #5 · Sigma 85 vs 85L II, round 4: printed page
nthomas wrote:
Totally agree with you. It looks like some people just can't accept this concept.
Most people also tend to overlook that that the Sigma is not nominal f/1.2. Even worse, there are strong indications now that the real aperture of the Sigma is not f/1.4, but f/1.55. On top of that, it is a bit shorter, close to 82 mm.
The most accurate marketing designation for the Sigma IMO should have been an 80mm f/1.6 lens.
p.3 #6 · Sigma 85 vs 85L II, round 4: printed page
alundeb wrote:
Most people also tend to overlook that that the Sigma is not nominal f/1.2. Even worse, there are strong indications now that the real aperture of the Sigma is not f/1.4, but f/1.55. On top of that, it is a bit shorter, close to 82 mm.
The most accurate marketing designation for the Sigma IMO should have been an 80mm f/1.6 lens.
The 85mm f/1.2L II has a t-stop of f/1.4 according to DxO. We'll see where the Sigma lands in relation.
p.3 #8 · Sigma 85 vs 85L II, round 4: printed page
alundeb wrote:
Most people also tend to overlook that that the Sigma is not nominal f/1.2. Even worse, there are strong indications now that the real aperture of the Sigma is not f/1.4, but f/1.55. On top of that, it is a bit shorter, close to 82 mm.
The most accurate marketing designation for the Sigma IMO should have been an 80mm f/1.6 lens.
Crazy that a 80mm/1.6 lens can keep up with the 85L....Actually, I think the Sigma is better.....
p.3 #9 · Sigma 85 vs 85L II, round 4: printed page
Thanks Ernie, it's a solid test for sure. My notes are that it would seem that field curvature or marginal decentering may be negatively affecting the 85L (hence the non-ideal F8 result) and that we must acknowledge the focusing distance used is around 1.5m or so? The lenses could behave differently at other distances (e.g. sigma optimized for 2m range or something vs. canon optimized for 10m...)
p.3 #10 · Sigma 85 vs 85L II, round 4: printed page
I have the 85L and I'm not showing any snobby L-ish attitude here. If the 85 siggy can AF well near and far well with the 5D, I'll buy it let go of the 85L. I mean, the 85L isn't the best AF-ing lens either... I might even buy it and buy one of those MF screens with the special coating.
I don't know if that 0.2 of an aperature is worth $900
p.3 #11 · Sigma 85 vs 85L II, round 4: printed page
What I would like to see is a comparison of the sigma 85 vs the canon 85 1.8. If the Canon "crushes" the Sigma, does that make it a better lens? The argument could be made "Why spend $800 for the Sigma, when the Canon only costs $350?" Same argument, different lens.
p.3 #12 · Sigma 85 vs 85L II, round 4: printed page
corndog wrote:
When people post brick wall shots, some will tell them to use it in the 'real world'. When people post real world shots, some will refer them to the brick wall. You can't really go wrong with the brick wall test when looking at sharpness, but you can go wrong the other way around. It's not as if the lens will be amazingly sharp on brick and then soft as cotton on a person. Indeed there are aspects of glass that aren't being tested here, but some aspects certainly are. This is only half the test, and it's nowhere near being invalid.
Corner sharpness wide open is irrelevant until your subject matter is in the corner, and perhaps we're looking at more than sharpness in the corners? How about CA? Is CA irrelevant in the corners?
Though not exactly a scientific test, it's significantly more scientific than nothing at all. Instead of nixing these results, why not appreciate what you have seen, and simply wait for the outdoor test?
Absolutely take this test "For what it's worth". The bigger issue is that so many people live and die by these resolution tests based on 2D objects (charts, newspapers, walls, etc). For various reasons (field curvature, design compromise, etc), super fast aperture lenses are ALWAYS weak when photographing these sorts of 2D targets.
So that is issue #1.
Issue #2 is that given the real-life practical usage of this lens (yes, I know it will vary wildly), 3D subjects are going to outnumber 2D subjects by a bewildering majority.
Therefore, my point was that judging a lens that was designed to photograph a 3D world by a 2D, corner-to-corner test chart is not going to give you an accurate representation of user satisfaction for most people. Sure, it's accurate, repeatable, and clinical, but it's just not applicable to most people.
A prime, grade A example of this is the 50L. It embarrassingly fails pretty much every resolution test chart known to man-kind, yet somehow manages to create stunning images. This thread isn't about the 50L, but the same caveats that apply to it also apply to both the lenses being compared in this thread.
p.3 #13 · Sigma 85 vs 85L II, round 4: printed page
No flaming, it's good discussion. It looked like you felt this test was totally irrelevant, and I was trying to say that I think it's partially relevant. To further reinforce your 50L comment, may as well throw the 50/1.8 and 18-55 kit lens in the mix.
Oct 25, 2010 at 01:49 PM
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p.3 #14 · Sigma 85 vs 85L II, round 4: printed page
This test is only a part of a larger study that has already spawned 5 very popular threads. Therefore I see no reason to complain. Those who see some or all parts of this study redundant should hit the back button and browse elsewhere.
p.3 #16 · Sigma 85 vs 85L II, round 4: printed page
As a Canon 85 L - lover, I think the Sigma lens looks very nice. The OP's test is quite relevant at revealing several attributes of the Sigma. There are plenty of samples of "real world" images from the Sigma and it is a good-looking lens. I think it nicely fits between the Canon 1.2 and 1.8 and finally gives 85mm users requiring AF a <$1000 alternative to the 1.2L.
Oct 26, 2010 at 01:52 AM
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p.3 #17 · Sigma 85 vs 85L II, round 4: printed page
lamontsanders wrote:
I want to see 85L vs. Zeiss 85/1.4
A big 85 mm showdown in Canon scope (85/1.8 vs 85/1.2 II vs. Sigma vs. Zeiss vs. 70-200/2.8 II @ 85mm) would be nice, but let's give Ernie a break.
Oct 26, 2010 at 02:22 AM
Canongarcon Offline • • • [X]
p.3 #18 · Sigma 85 vs 85L II, round 4: printed page
lamontsanders wrote:
I want to see 85L vs. Zeiss 85/1.4
Most people don't use Zeiss lenses and the Zeiss is manual focus only. Big difference.
Oct 26, 2010 at 08:25 AM
Canongarcon Offline • • • [X]
p.3 #19 · Sigma 85 vs 85L II, round 4: printed page
hammer2k911 wrote:
What I would like to see is a comparison of the sigma 85 vs the canon 85 1.8. If the Canon "crushes" the Sigma, does that make it a better lens? The argument could be made "Why spend $800 for the Sigma, when the Canon only costs $350?" Same argument, different lens.
If that is the case, then the Canon 85mm 1.8 would crush it's more expensive 1.2L brother. Then you could say why spend an extra $1,400 on the Canon 1.2L?
That being said, many people do say the 85mm 1.8 lens is a better all around lens then the 1.2L, which is a one dimensional or one trick pony lens.
p.3 #20 · Sigma 85 vs 85L II, round 4: printed page
Canongarcon wrote:
If that is the case, then the Canon 85mm 1.8 would crush it's more expensive 1.2L brother. Then you could say why spend an extra $1,400 on the Canon 1.2L?
That being said, many people do say the 85mm 1.8 lens is a better all around lens then the 1.2L, which is a one dimensional or one trick pony lens.
True enough if you follow that reasoning. My comments were just food for thought because there is probably alot of people who have the 85 1.8 and are wondering if the Sigma really does make that much difference to warrant an upgrade.
As for commenting on the 1.2L vs the 1.8, that horse has been beaten to death.
I do have to say that orginal poster has gone above and beyond to provide information regarding his experiences with the two lens. YMMV
The lens sample section at POTN have atleast 7 pages of hands on review of this lens, and quite a few people have done some 'real world' test on the lens, and more people over there have ordered this lens in the past few days so rest assure, you will see LOTS of 'real world' test from different users, but for now...the least you get from the OP is initial preview of the lens, what hasn't he covered so far?
Go get your own copy and do another "useful and relevant" test so you can show us what ya got then! 
Go back home to DPR where you can b!tch and complain about something you don't like all day long.
