Chavez rudely insisted I was spreading misinformation regarding D1 not being a constant color light, and adamantly insisted I should do my research and read the (misleading) Profoto specs. I did just that, providing two independent measurements of the D1 that clearly showed that my statements were 100% correct and that his was the misinformation. Hence the rather well qualified comment about eating crow.
I wouldn't exactly say neither Kacey nor DC Chavez were not equally rude. Rude begets rude. At least in my "rudeness" I managed to correct the totally false information from Chavez, providing valuable information to readers. So it comes down to who was the rudest first and who provided the correct information in the end?
If I were in Kacey or Chavez's position I would have said "My God Mr, Buff, you were right . . . I didn't realize Profoto had presented misleading specs and I made the mistake of misinterpreting them and of falling prey to their specsmanship."
So what do readers want here . . . lollipops and roses and blind acceptance of false information, or a barroom brawl that results in the the truth rearing it's ugly head?
Paul Buff wrote:
Thanks for taking the time to set things straight. Measuring color temperatures is not a black and white issue (no pun intended). Different camera, test cards and RAW tools will produce widely varying absolute numbers. If you use color meters, the results have an even greater variation.
Notice the 300° difference in your reading and the published D1 spec of 5600°K and your observed 750° shift over the power range VS Rangefinder's 400° shift. Believe me, I do an awful lot of this sort of testing and am quite accustomed to seeing these differences. What I end up publishing is typically a median of the results of a dozen or so tests with various cameras, lenses and color targets.
Since it is the actual photo that counts in the end, my "gold standard" is using a Kodak professional color card in a room that has calibrated neutral grey surfaces throughout and RAW shots and Adobe Bridge. Within the color card's various greys, I will typically see 100° to 200° difference, and a similar difference between various camera and lenses.
I also consistently see, particularly on color vs power tests like your, an invariably larger color shift from any of my several color meters than I see in RAW tests. I attribute this to the likelihood that the color meters (Gossen, Sekonic and Minolta) have greater response to near UV colors than do typical lenses and cameras. The color meters also vary widely, from the same light source and power setting, with distance from the meter to the light. I attribute this to non-linearities of the three RGB sensors used.
As to the AcuteB 600, I expected the much closer color VS Power results because, from the published specs, which show faster flash durations with power reduction, this light uses capacitor switch (as do most packs) as the primary means of establishing power level, as opposed to the voltage control means used in the D1. I would even go so far as to suggest that if you did a series of RAW test you may find the max to min color shift on the AcuteB considerably closer to 0°K than the 200°K you observed.
I do hope this whole ugly thread has produced some degree of technical enlightenment to readers as a counterbalance to all the squabbling and ego trips. ...Show more →
The test environment wasn't the best so in a neutral room the color would all be a bit cooler I'm sure. When I have time I'll do a more scientific test and show pics and share test details. Just wanted to do a quick n dirty test for now. I don't expect better testing will give a smaller delta for the Acute, though I would hope you're right.
A significant amount of flagging is going to need to happen to ensure the walls and floors aren't contributing to any color measurements.
(In terms of what I did today, I shot with a Canon 1Ds III in RAW and Canon 100 2.8 macro. ColorChecker Passport was used to measure color (Lightroom develop module, white balance dropped on the medium-gray square on the color chart. The D1 used the built-in reflector and the Acute used the Zoom Reflector II... Both of them would have had light bouncing at least a little off the side walls and/or floor contributing warmer tones to the image than if I was in a black (or white) room).
Thank you TTLKurtis for this valuable information. You are correct about the room environment . . . I had to completely paint my test studio with calibrated neutral grey - floor and ceilng and all, and get rid of anything in the room with any significant color.
I don't think there is any issue with the absolute color temperature . . . you can test a "5600K° light with a variety of pro cameras, lenses, software and color charts and come up with anywhere between 5200° and 6200° from exactly the same light and power setting.
Kacey wrote:
After being insulted myself from Mr Buff I have no issue standing up for others he belittles.
There is a hide button if you don't want to read my posts. Since you say you will not deal with me can I ask you if you will continue to deal with Mr Buff for the same reasons? I'm distasteful and a coward? You just like everyone here is welcome to their opinion. I'm guessing you have little knowledge of his past in various forums he has participated in the the last 5 years you should do a little research before forming a opinion. ...Show more →
Hide? That's pretty tough when you consistently turn every thread you touch to a shambles and then you insist on PMing me to get a few more words in. I've learned a great deal here just watching and then the vindictive sniping starts
If i could click hide and have the threads remain on track i certainly would. I think what you done is tragic and hardly positive PR for your little enterprise. Just quit the constant harping, you've already made a fool out of yourself.
I am a bit disappointed... I was recently introduced to White Lightning products. I heard such great reviews, so I went and purchased a Vagabond II and an X3200. I did exactly as instructed for the Vagabond. Two days after I received my order I used it for one day (actually about 1hr) and the Vagabond shut off. No lights, nothing. I tried to plug it in and it started smoking and burning. I disconnected it and called customer service. I explained that I had a photo shoot only a couple of days from then. They were wonderful and fast. They agreed to replace my Vagabond immediately. I received my new Vagabond just in time (1 day before). I did as instructed and left it charging. The next day (today) I went to the shoot and plugged it in. As soon as I turned on my X3200 the lights on the Vagabond went out again. Again! I am disappointed. Its late now, so I'll call customer service (again) in the morning. I lost a shoot... I am a bit afraid to get another unit. What should I do?
juniorsantos wrote:
I am a bit disappointed... I was recently introduced to White Lightning products. I heard such great reviews, so I went and purchased a Vagabond II and an X3200. I did exactly as instructed for the Vagabond. Two days after I received my order I used it for one day (actually about 1hr) and the Vagabond shut off. No lights, nothing. I tried to plug it in and it started smoking and burning. I disconnected it and called customer service. I explained that I had a photo shoot only a couple of days from then. They were wonderful and fast. They agreed to replace my Vagabond immediately. I received my new Vagabond just in time (1 day before). I did as instructed and left it charging. The next day (today) I went to the shoot and plugged it in. As soon as I turned on my X3200 the lights on the Vagabond went out again. Again! I am disappointed. Its late now, so I'll call customer service (again) in the morning. I lost a shoot... I am a bit afraid to get another unit. What should I do?
Call PCB Customer Service the minute they open tomorrow AM. They'll fix you right up.
No one here can assure you that your next unit, same brand or other, will or will not work. You need to talk to the technical service people and find out what they'll do for you.
juniorsantos wrote:
I am a bit disappointed... I was recently introduced to White Lightning products. I heard such great reviews, so I went and purchased a Vagabond II and an X3200. I did exactly as instructed for the Vagabond. Two days after I received my order I used it for one day (actually about 1hr) and the Vagabond shut off. No lights, nothing. I tried to plug it in and it started smoking and burning. I disconnected it and called customer service. I explained that I had a photo shoot only a couple of days from then. They were wonderful and fast. They agreed to replace my Vagabond immediately. I received my new Vagabond just in time (1 day before). I did as instructed and left it charging. The next day (today) I went to the shoot and plugged it in. As soon as I turned on my X3200 the lights on the Vagabond went out again. Again! I am disappointed. Its late now, so I'll call customer service (again) in the morning. I lost a shoot... I am a bit afraid to get another unit. What should I do?
The problem is clearly the Vagabond II. There has been so many reports of this issue. I think your choices here is to either return it for a refund and resort to an Innovatronix Explorer XT SE or wait until they fix up the Vagabond II problem. I know they test it before sending it to you, so I don't understand why this is happening. Honestly, I think it's a bad batch of inverters. But could it be damaged during shipping? Did the box look like it was tossed around? It shouldn't happen on overnight or 2-day shipping but just check.
Call the pros and let them handle it. I troubleshot electronic controls internationally for many years and found that guess work and pre-diagnosis without all the facts rarely works.
TTLKurtis wrote:
The test environment wasn't the best so in a neutral room the color would all be a bit cooler I'm sure. When I have time I'll do a more scientific test and show pics and share test details. Just wanted to do a quick n dirty test for now. I don't expect better testing will give a smaller delta for the Acute, though I would hope you're right.
A significant amount of flagging is going to need to happen to ensure the walls and floors aren't contributing to any color measurements.
(In terms of what I did today, I shot with a Canon 1Ds III in RAW and Canon 100 2.8 macro. ColorChecker Passport was used to measure color (Lightroom develop module, white balance dropped on the medium-gray square on the color chart. The D1 used the built-in reflector and the Acute used the Zoom Reflector II... Both of them would have had light bouncing at least a little off the side walls and/or floor contributing warmer tones to the image than if I was in a black (or white) room)....Show more →
I bought a new D1 500 to test. Using D300, Kodak professional color balance chart and Adobe Bridge CS4 RAW I measured 6050°K at full power and 5500°K at 1/64 power . . . a 550°K shift over the power range. In the same test I measured RX600 at 400° shift Full to 1/32 and measured AB1600 at 375° shift Full to 1/32. Einstein, in the same test, shifted color no more than 50°K anywhere between Full and 1/256 Power. The D1 exhibited more R/G axis (-4 to -13 units) than the others. RX600 varied from 0 to -7 R/G as did AB1600. Einstein measured 0 to -2 R/G.
The absolute values measured will alway differ from one tester to another depending on camera, color chart, room environment, lens, software and other factors, so these should not be taken as absolute numbers. Disclaimer: These tests do indeed come from an interested party rather than an independent reviewer such as TTL Kurtis.
This thread got on the track it's on because I voluntarily and responsibly informed readers of our forum that we were experiencing an excessive field failure rate (about 5%) from our most recent shipment of V2 inverters and that we are doing everything i our power to track down the source and correct it ASAP. This is the single electronics product we do not produce in house in the USA.
TTLKurtis wrote:
The test environment wasn't the best so in a neutral room the color would all be a bit cooler I'm sure. When I have time I'll do a more scientific test and show pics and share test details. Just wanted to do a quick n dirty test for now. I don't expect better testing will give a smaller delta for the Acute, though I would hope you're right.
A significant amount of flagging is going to need to happen to ensure the walls and floors aren't contributing to any color measurements.
Why not try this? Shoot outdoors at night in a gray concrete or black asphalt parking lot. Shouldn't that be a cheap and easy way to avoid reflections from colored walls?
Two23 wrote:
Why not try this? Shoot outdoors at night in a gray concrete or black asphalt parking lot. Shouldn't that be a cheap and easy way to avoid reflections from colored walls?
Kent in SD
I bought a D1 500 just for testing. Built up a black "tent" to avoid any environmental color influences. With well calibrated RAW tests in Bridge, here's what I got;
Full Power = 6150°K, -2 units R/G axis. t.1 duration at full = 1/580, at 1/64 Power = 1/270
Minimum Power (1/64) = 5600°K, -12 units R/G axis. (550°K shift VS power)
For comparison, I measured discontinued predecessor Compact 300 and got:
Full Power = 5250°K. -7 units R/G axis t.1 duration at full = 1/280, at 1/4 Power = 1/180
Minimum Power (1/4) 5100°K, -8 units R/G axis.
Note 900°K full power color difference between Compact and D1.
I received a replacement Vagabond II unit earlier this week. The unit was immediately charged per instruction. Shooting Wednesday through Friday (many hundreds of pops, at various power settings, re-charged at the end of work) it has performed perfectly. So far, a superb piece of equipment. Many thanks.
willowsr wrote:
I received a replacement Vagabond II unit earlier this week. The unit was immediately charged per instruction. Shooting Wednesday through Friday (many hundreds of pops, at various power settings, re-charged at the end of work) it has performed perfectly. So far, a superb piece of equipment. Many thanks.
Glad to hear, because I'm looking forward to getting this piece of equipment.
Shortly after posting about my vagabond earlier, I sent my vagabond in for repair as well. Within a week I received my fully charged replacement. Thanks Paul! Great products at an outstanding price.
No matter hobby or profession, I stick with companies that back their product. I'll be getting another one in the future.
As the writer of the original post I feel some obligation to provide an update. The replacement VII unit I received in early October has now become a completely relied upon part of my kit. It has provided many hundreds, perhaps thousands, of pops for my X3200- couldn't be better. The willingness on the part of the Tech Support folks to solve the problem was extraordinary.
More recently I received a PLM (86")- without any question, the best value light modifier I've ever bought. Indeed, it is simply a superb piece of equipment.
willowsr
