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Archive 2010 · Vagabond II reliability

  
 
willowsr
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p.1 #1 · Vagabond II reliability


I'm a very satisfied user of two PCB bits of equipment- an original Vagabond unit and an X3200 monolight. They have performed perfectly for more than a couple of years- thousands of pops on dozens of shoots. On the basis of that experience I recently ordered a Vagabond II unit- sadly, this has not gone so well. Customer Service and Tech Support have been very responsive and attentive- but my units have not worked out. I'm told by the manager of a local rental facility (BorrowLens.com, San Carlos, CA) that my experience is anomalous. He has several units that suffer the predictable use/abuse of rental stock- and never a failure. He says that he has recently put in for 10 more VII units. Does anyone out there have direct experience with VII units delivered in the last 4 to 6 weeks? Also, does anyone have direct experience of the recent Tronix gear (pre Lithium, of course). I have an older 1200 WS Tronix that, like its early Vagabond cousin, has been flawless.
Jed



Sep 15, 2010 at 05:04 PM
Bryan Beasleigh
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p.1 #2 · Vagabond II reliability


Specifically what is the problem?


Sep 15, 2010 at 08:37 PM
Fred Amico
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p.1 #3 · Vagabond II reliability


BRYAN BEASLEIG wrote:
Specifically what is the problem?


Yes, without some specifics, it's pretty hard to address whatever problem(s) you might be having.



Sep 15, 2010 at 08:45 PM
willowsr
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p.1 #4 · Vagabond II reliability


Specifics- My first VII unit arrived in early August and worked just fine on four shoots (between 500 to 800 shots) powering a White Lightning X3200, mostly in Fast mode, and then, in the middle of the fifth shoot (maybe 100 shots, approx half power) with imported talent (including a horse), the client, an AD, and three assistants, the unit crackled, popped, smoked and died- no power output. Later, I found that one of the two 30A fuses had blown. When I attempted to replace the fuse (with the rocker switch in the off, center, position), nasty sparking occurred as I tried to set a new fuse. Customer Service (Melody) and Tech Support (Joe) sent out a replacement unit by Second Day Air (a prepaid UPS shipping label arrived promptly for the return of the failed unit). On receipt the second unit, we charged it overnight per the very clear user instructions (as we had done with the first unit). In the morning, preparing for a late afternoon/evening shoot I plugged in the X3200 (with power switch off, modeling light off) and rocked the VII switch to Fast- this resulted in immediate popping and lots of smoke- and even though I quickly returned the switch to the center (off) position, an alarming hum persisted until I disconnected the battery from the inverter. Note that this failure occurred the very first time (in my possession) that the unit had been energized, with no load. Despite the unit failure, neither of the fuses had blown. I called Tech Support (Joe). We discussed, at length and in detail, the pre-shipment testing procedures which include the use of a 2500 WS unit- a very much greater load than my X3200- and their extensive use of both the Slow an Fast modes, and even the drain of modeling lights (specifically recommended against in the manual). Joe assured me that he would personally check out and test another unit, and Overnight it to me in time for a shoot scheduled for the evenings of Sept 4&5. The unit arrived by UPS, as promised, Friday morning, Sept 3. Before opening the package I called Tech Support (Joe). With Joe on the line, we confirmed that it was OK to check/test the unit without the full 12-24 charge up as he had already topped the battery off prior to shipment. The unit checked/tested perfectly. With the WL X3200, and with three different Photogenic 1250 units, in both slow and fast modes, high and low power settings, one light- two lights, powered down, powered up-the VII functioned perfectly. I thanked Joe, and he wished me good luck for the shoot. The unit was charged overnight and again tested Saturday morning in preparation for work that evening- everything fine. The unit failed just after six that evening (long after my local rental shop had shut down), during lighting check, 20 or shots- a little popping, fair amount of acrid smoke, neither fuse blown. The client and the horse didn't like the smoke. My old Vagabond and Tronix units got us through the shoot. I sent the failed VII unit back. I want to repeat that Customer Service and Tech Support were superb. They were attentive and responsive- Joe, in particular, clearly knows his stuff. And again, my previous experience of these folks is positive- my old Vagabond and the WL X3200 have been completely reliable. And I have a PLM 86 on order. And, Matt, the rental manager for BorrowLens.com (San Carlos, CA) says that his all VII units are problem free. But I am thinking about the alternatives- anybody got recent, direct experience of the Tronix XT?


Sep 16, 2010 at 01:39 AM
smjphoto
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p.1 #5 · Vagabond II reliability


I would really start questioning everything that is plugged into the vagabond. 3 in a row is really bad luck!!


Sep 16, 2010 at 01:51 AM
Csae
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p.1 #6 · Vagabond II reliability


I once had an AC that would blow the fuses off anything it was plugged into at anything but bare minimum power, and even then, only if, and for however long it felt like it.

I believe it may be something being plugged into the VII.

There may be other factors at play as well, but that sounds like the most likely.



Sep 16, 2010 at 03:05 AM
TNshooter
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p.1 #7 · Vagabond II reliability


I had a VII fail on me the first time I took it out just a few weeks ago. This unit fired off under 10 flashes with a single AB400 and died. Not lights on the unit, no sound, nothing. I called and was told that they would send one out that day and e-mail me a return shipping label to return the defective unit. I was blown away with their customer service. I'm in Knoxville and actually got the replacement unit the next day.
I charged the replacement unit until I got the single green light, just as I had with the original unit. I took it out and plugged in the AB400, turned on the VII and got under 5 pops on it and then no response from the unit. I will be calling them in the morning. Their customer service has been outstanding, far exceeding anything I expected. And I believe that I have just had an bit of incredibly bad luck with these two units. I know they have shipped many of these and I have only read good reviews of the VII. I just really need one in my hands that works properly.
I'll post an update to this after I talk to customer service in the morning.
~greg



Sep 16, 2010 at 03:35 AM
pcschwenke
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p.1 #8 · Vagabond II reliability


I've had an issue with mine also. Mine is less than 7 months old and has been used a total of 4 times. A couple months ago, I plugged mine if for a monthly recharge of the battery. The next morning after disconnecting the the plug from the wall, I noticed the fan continued to run. Even after an hour of giving it an opportunity to cool and shut off it continued. Eventually I just disconnected to power to the inverter. PCB replaced the inverter no questions asked. No sure why it flipped out though.

Paul



Sep 16, 2010 at 06:48 AM
maxwell1295
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p.1 #9 · Vagabond II reliability


I didn't think the VBII worked with Photogenic Powerlights. I sold my 1250's because I needed to be mobile. Ended up with 4 ABs and a VBII. No problems thus far...


Sep 16, 2010 at 07:11 AM
Seanzky
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p.1 #10 · Vagabond II reliability


willowsr wrote:
Specifics- My first VII unit arrived in early August and worked just fine on four shoots (between 500 to 800 shots) powering a White Lightning X3200, mostly in Fast mode, and then, in the middle of the fifth shoot (maybe 100 shots, approx half power) with imported talent (including a horse), the client, an AD, and three assistants, the unit crackled, popped, smoked and died- no power output. Later, I found that one of the two 30A fuses had blown. When I attempted to replace the fuse (with the rocker switch in the off, center, position), nasty sparking occurred as
...Show more

I've heard this so many times before on POTN where guys would see and hear what you described and then changing fuses would cause more of the same.

Just take it up with PCB here on FM and hopefully you get your money back or something to work with.



Sep 16, 2010 at 07:27 AM
jeremy_clay
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p.1 #11 · Vagabond II reliability


I've had not the greatest luck - my first VB caught fire during charging (the charger heated, smoked and melted) and my current VBII sometimes requires a 'shake' to power my lights correctly. Both outside of warranty, the VBI just sits unused, but I still use the VBII regularly.


Sep 16, 2010 at 09:14 AM
willowsr
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p.1 #12 · Vagabond II reliability


Thanks for your responses. The possibility that the monolights we're plugging into the VIIs might be causal in the failures has been pretty carefully reviewed with Tech Support. Clearly, the WL X3200 is on the approved list for the VII, and Sales and Tech Support assured me that the Photogenic 1250 units (not 1250DR) should be fine. Note that the first and third units initially tested and performed well, certainly to expectation & spec, with the WL X3200 and the Photogenic 1250 units . Also note that these monolights work just fine with my old Vagabond unit and a Tronix Explorer 1200WS, obviously not putting the power supplies under any inappropriate or excessive load. The failure of the second VII unit occurred without any draw on the unit at all. So after detailed review, Tech Support and I concluded that my lighting units were a very low probability cause of the failures. Scuttlebutt, FWIW, has me interested in few possibilities: #1, a bad batch of FETs (field-effect transistors) or capacitors #2, a design issue that doesn't allow the fuses to consistently protect as needed #3, a supplier change (not up to speed) #4, a bad batch of inverters in the units shipped late July/early August. But again, having discussed the very rigorous pre-shipment proving/testing done in house- Joe (Tech Support) really bounces these things before they go out- I'm baffled.


Sep 16, 2010 at 10:09 AM
MNPNW
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p.1 #13 · Vagabond II reliability


PCB mentioned on the VML thread that he is not happy with the VII inverter failure rate so something is going on with the VII units. Good thing PCB company helps as much as they can.

My VII failure came with a Photogenic 1250 attached. Only used the replacement unit with AB since then even though the PL should be fine.

Hopefully the VML will be trouble free.

As a working pro you have the back-ups covered, but still really frustrating...




Sep 16, 2010 at 10:42 AM
willowsr
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p.1 #14 · Vagabond II reliability


Frustrating, indeed. And we do have to carry full backups- these VII failures, while really annoying, didn't shut us down. They caused some elevation of my blood pressure, but didn't shut us down. The vexing thing is that, as designed, the VII is a hugely attractive product. I very much prefer the VII orientation of the sockets (up facing) to the Tronix setup (on the end). The VII is readily used as a light stand weight- the Tronix is awkward at best. Battery change out on my old Tronix is a royal pain, with lots of little screws. The VII battery is readily accessed. The weight of the VII is not a problem for me. If I had Reason to Believe that the VII could be really be relied upon, I'd probably have two.


Sep 16, 2010 at 12:56 PM
teebat
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p.1 #15 · Vagabond II reliability


willowsr wrote:
Thanks for your responses. The possibility that the monolights we're plugging into the VIIs might be causal in the failures has been pretty carefully reviewed with Tech Support. Clearly, the WL X3200 is on the approved list for the VII, and Sales and Tech Support assured me that the Photogenic 1250 units (not 1250DR) should be fine. Note that the first and third units initially tested and performed well, certainly to expectation & spec, with the WL X3200 and the Photogenic 1250 units . Also note that these monolights work just fine with my old Vagabond unit and a Tronix
...Show more

Was there a reason given for the Photogenic 1250DR untis not working ? I have 8 of them and was planning on getting a VBII .



Sep 16, 2010 at 08:50 PM
MNPNW
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p.1 #16 · Vagabond II reliability


Photogenic DIGITAL style units are not Vagabond compatible. They are (were) not designed to operate at the voltage relatively small inverter / batttery packs can supply.

The analog units with slider controls seem to be fine. I have some of both DR Powerlights (PL) Solair and regular PL's.

Digital PL (not Solair) are not compatible either.

I checked with Photogenic too. You may damage a DR type PL if you try a battery, Vagabond, Tronix Explorer, etc. I would not try the new Vagabond Mini Lithium either.

My regular PL's work fine with Vagabond II.

You'll find several very good explanations if you do a bit of searching on the many battery / inverter threads. Something to do with the high load (watts) at the start of recharge lowers voltage (because the battery/inverter combo can only supply so many amps) to a value below the design range of the monolight so it shuts down.



Sep 16, 2010 at 10:25 PM
Paul Buff
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p.1 #17 · Vagabond II reliability


There is no reason to suspect a digital light to be damaged by a small inverter . . . as long as it's pure sine wave. The question comes down to whether the light's uP will crash under the inherent voltage brown out from any small inverter.


Sep 17, 2010 at 01:24 AM
teebat
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p.1 #18 · Vagabond II reliability


MNPNW wrote:
Photogenic DIGITAL style units are not Vagabond compatible. They are (were) not designed to operate at the voltage relatively small inverter / batttery packs can supply.

The analog units with slider controls seem to be fine. I have some of both DR Powerlights (PL) Solair and regular PL's.

Digital PL (not Solair) are not compatible either.

I checked with Photogenic too. You may damage a DR type PL if you try a battery, Vagabond, Tronix Explorer, etc. I would not try the new Vagabond Mini Lithium either.

My regular PL's work fine with Vagabond II.

You'll find several very good explanations
...Show more

Thanks for the info, I guess I will have to invest in some mono's that can be run from an inverter.



Sep 17, 2010 at 09:53 AM
MNPNW
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p.1 #19 · Vagabond II reliability


As far as I can tell, Einstein is the only "modest price" mono light that can run off small to modest size inverter and hold consistent color temp as power changes.

I bought the Photogenic Solair model because it maintains color temp pretty well and is priced mid-range. not sure if I'll sell the Photogenic's and buy Einstein. Maybe add Einsteins or sell regular PL and get Einstein.

Now with BatPac and D-1 there is another choice.



Sep 17, 2010 at 03:54 PM
Paul Buff
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p.1 #20 · Vagabond II reliability


Do your Solair lights crash? I bought one and it crashed at random and quite often on AC power for no apparent reason. They have probably fixed this? I was pretty impressed with it's accuracy though. But it costs a good bit more than Einstein.

D1 is not a constant color light, to my knowledge, and requires firmware modification to run from BatPac. My read on this is that it too will not tolerate brownouts without the firmware that reduces current draw.

And no, before it starts again, I am not putting down Profoto or Photogenic . . . just stating what I observe.



Sep 17, 2010 at 05:03 PM
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