thrice wrote:
Colour is also superior, wouldn't you agree?
No, I probably would not although it's not a very simple question. If using Zeiss glass on both cameras, the M9 has better reds and possibly blues while the 5DII produces much better color separation in green (and yellow). The greens and yellows are IMO bordering to being problematic on the M9. I don't know if it is because of the ZM glass or because of the sensor. I know from experience that Zeiss ZE glass typically produces a much better and detailed color rendering than their Canon equivalents. The ZM glass seems to be on average inferior to the ZE/ZF glass, so it could be that. I'm skeptical however as I've seen the same problem with images taken with Leica lenses. A third option is that it's a question of poor RAW development. I can usually improve the separation by bringing down the luminance of the affected colors.
Anyway, a couple of more long exposures taken this afternoon (it gets dark around 4 pm these days). Shooting them was complicated by the fact that I did not have a tripod with me. I used benches, statues and trash cans for support and it was exceptionally difficult to get an acceptable composition..
Edit: Oh yeah, forgot to say - while the M9 is definitely superior in the shadows, it has a nasty tendency to completely and irrecoverably blow out the highlights. So for shots like the ones above I should really use the 5DII. For daylight shots or night shots out in the nature this is not a problem but in an urban environment with very bright points of light the M9 has much more problems than the 5DII.
rsolti13 wrote:
Dan, both shots are beyond spectacular! Great use of light in number 1 and the clarity in #2 is unbelievable. Any filters used? Does the ZM 18 have a problem with color on the M9 or am I thinking about the 21 4.5?
Thanks
Yes it has a small problem, I have cornerfix profiles but I've just used some quick digital grad filters of pale cyan in lightroom to fix it, doesn't take long.
In both shots an ND1.8 (6 stops) was used. The shots were bracketed (manually) and manually blended before stitching, seems to work alright.
Here is a similar setup, about 10 vertical shots with the 25mm ZM on M9, I think I used the ND1.8 but it was super dark and the only chance I had to catch the mountains before a hell of a rainstorm rolled in. Still tweaking the sky, rapidly changing light is a white balance/exposure nightmare in panos.
Do you guys have any opinions on the Summarit lenses? I have been eying the 90 summarit which seems nice and compact but I'm a bit weary of the build quality. I'd like a tele lens - 75 or 90 and I'd prefer to buy new. I'd also like to keep it compact - the 90 cron is a bit too big. The 90 summarit fits the bill in terms of size and speed but I'm a bit skeptical about the whole Leica budget lens thing.
The 75 Cron would be another option..if it was possible to get one. It seems to be out of stock everywhere though. Plus 75mm is a bit too short..
Thrice, that's excellen, trulyt. Luka , number three is amazing (they are all good, that one appeals to appreciation of symmetry)
I am struggling to discover what it is I'm doing wrong with the x1(or in general) and why I cant seem to get any kind of pop. I am thinking it's light. I think I'm choosing the wrong times, and not taking a tripod is hurting me too. Some of it must be my lack of post, specifically sharpening and color manipulation, as well.
Still, I continue to draw inspiration. I love my daily check in on this thread, keep it rolling!
Adam, very pretty fiancée and a nice photo to remember the holiday.
h00ligan wrote:
I am struggling to discover what it is I'm doing wrong with the x1(or in general) and why I cant seem to get any kind of pop. I am thinking it's light. I think I'm choosing the wrong times, and not taking a tripod is hurting me too. Some of it must be my lack of post, specifically sharpening and color manipulation, as well.
Thanks for the compliments mate
As for pop light makes a huge difference, as does sharpness. You could also try switching to the LAB colour space and doing curves adjustments to the a & b channels ... but that is getting a bit tricky
Google for Alex Nail photoshop sharpening action, that's a pretty good one I use which also gives you the option to mask out some of the sharpening as needed.
Light is the key and one of the reasons I like to shoot at night. In urban environments you often have multiple light sources with different temperatures which gives a lot of options when setting the white balance.
Sharpening is also extremely important. As for colors, it depends a bit on the camera and how good the default settings of the RAW developer are. With my 5D2+Zeiss glass I rarely needed to touch the colors. The X1 on the other hand usually needs a lot of color correction and processing before I'm happy with the result. The M9 is somewhere in-between. For the most part I only set white balance but on occasion I have to do other adjustments in Lightroom.
Thanks guys. I try not to get too disheartened as I've only been at this a year.
Luka, I'm 90% sold that instead of an m9 as my first full frame , I'll get the 5dmk2. It just makes more sense at my (lack of) skill level. The bummer is the weight. I'll be selling the 7d (I Really got that purchase wrong when deciding between it and the 5d).
Can you recommend a good standard prime (af may be preferred, not sure)?
Another possibility is to try some mf m mount lenses on my gf1 or a nex. I'm not sure what it is I am not happy with, I think lens color and contrast is a big part. The sigma 30/1.4 has good color and contrast..but to my eye a fair amount of fringing and misses focus.
Sharpening...I have tried many many methods, lab + unsharp, lightroom raw with option key for clarity, pk sharpener (good but not great IMO), masked sharpening, duplicate layer with hi pass a la LL)
Finally, I think it really would be a benefit to take a small photo trip out of town. You know I live in the desert..and hate the scenery...so I am bored and uninspired here..it's really even too new for urban decay. So some money should be allocated to traveling rather than gear.
Anyway, I'm sure I sound whiney and indecisive..apologies. I'm just relatively new and trying to find what works well with me..I guess everyone has to find their right gear. Meanwhile I'll continue to read and learn, and appreciate all of your input.
I'd also like to add... My name is Edward feels silly to continue with a screen name here. Too tight knit
P.s. Thanks for your input thrice, much appreciated.
h00ligan wrote:
Luka, I'm 90% sold that instead of an m9 as my first full frame , I'll get the 5dmk2. It just makes more sense at my (lack of) skill level. The bummer is the weight. I'll be selling the 7d (I Really got that purchase wrong when deciding between it and the 5d).
Can you recommend a good standard prime (af may be preferred, not sure)?
Yes Edward, I can very warmly recommend this trio:
Zeiss 21/2.8, 35/2 & 100/2 MP. It doesn't get better than that. The 35/2 is a good lens to get started with.
Another possibility is to try some mf m mount lenses on my gf1 or a nex. I'm not sure what it is I am not happy with, I think lens color and contrast is a big part. The sigma 30/1.4 has good color and contrast..but to my eye a fair amount of fringing and misses focus.
It's a combination of things. While good lenses are essential you also need a sensor that can take full advantage of them. I started with a 7D and later got a 5DII which I intended to have as a backup camera. It did not take long before the 5DII became my primary camera and I have the 7D for occasions (basically never) when I need high FPS and a good AF system. Getting the 5DII was an important step but it was the Zeiss glass that had the most significant impact on my photography.
Regarding the Sigma 30/1.4, I have it as well. It was my first prime lens and I loved it. Now however after using better glass I consider it to be mediocre at best. The colors are muddy and micro contrast is weak. You should really try a Zeiss lens!
You already have the 7D, which is an excellent camera. You must understand why you feel the need to replace the 7D. For myself, and I have shared this before, FF is non negotiable with the present state of sensor technology and it could change in 6 months. The size and weight of the 7D is virtually same as the 5DII. The 5DII is a excellent choice, but you may be dissapointed if you are not clear in your needs.
Maybe as you have suggested is, take the 7D, and spend money with an instructor or a trip, and just have some fun I think it is so important, although we get in dicussions about technical issues about cameras and lenses, nothing replaces actually going out and taking lots of photos.
If the 7D is suiting you well, then the upgrade to the 5DII is warranted as there is a substantial improvement is colours and rendering with the ZE series.
As much as I love the M9, and its quirks, I still have the 5DII in the back ground, with both ZE's and Canon AF lenses. If you are looking a single system, then I would strongly suggest a DSLR, unless form factor and weight is a big issue.
I really love "simulated large format" shots. I used to shoot such images using a robotic pano head (gigapan pro). The only problem was that the whole setup was simply too heavy to be practical. The panos I did with it were on the order of 50-100 images, something that is too cumbersome to do by hand. Incidentally, I think the smaller version of the gigapan could be used with the M9 resulting in a much more portable system, but I don't think I'm going to get it. Stitched panoramas ruin my workflow and pollute my lightroom database.
I really love "simulated large format" shots. I used to shoot such images using a robotic pano head (gigapan pro). The only problem was that the whole setup was simply too heavy to be practical. The panos I did with it were on the order of 50-100 images, something that is too cumbersome to do by hand. Incidentally, I think the smaller version of the gigapan could be used with the M9 resulting in a much more portable system, but I don't think I'm going to get it. Stitched panoramas ruin my workflow and pollute my lightroom database.
Thanks Luka I love large format as well, which is why I thought I should stitch so much with landscapes I may never see again.
I might look at the gigapans, but for now it's all mecahnical with the nodal ninja, manually stepping it through each frame as well as bracketing can be tricky.
My lightroom database is very full, thank god for sorting by metadata or attributes otherwise I'd never find anything. One day I'll start making notes, I do 'rate' the pictures with a certain number of stars based on what they are (1 for rubbish, 2 for save for later, 3 for requires processing, 4 for processed but not quite there, 5 for finished image) that helps a LOT.
Luka, I am shocked to see you may be new, seriously. You must have a gift.
Charles, I think the 7d is a great camera, it does suit me...but (heh) I feel like the lenses I have are the weak point. Luka aren't all the zeiss mf? I can do that for some but not all. Have you a recommendation for af lenses..or am I wrong and some zeiss af?
Genuinely I prefer using primes. Maybe because it's easier and I know what to expect.
I had an idea today with the x1, but the end result isn't good enough to share...it was just a fun little capture. I like it, but it's garbage compared to images in here.
Maybe I have to suck it up and buy some L lenses..a trip is coming very soon..out of the brown boredom that is Phoenix will help me refocus (pun intended and yes it's cheesy!)
I'd also like to add a thank you to you all for bearing with a beginner and offering very constructive thoughts and heavy inspiration.
Cheers guys, i'd buy you all a beer if it was possible.
I'd like to add, I know that a camera doesn't make the photos. I work hard examining and learning what I can about composition and opportunity.that said..why nott buy the best one can afford on the way (that doesn't mean m9!)
I hope in a few more years to be much better. (sorry for all the typos, iPad. )
Do you guys have any opinions on the Summarit lenses? I have been eying the 90 summarit which seems nice and compact but I'm a bit weary of the build quality. I'd like a tele lens - 75 or 90 and I'd prefer to buy new. I'd also like to keep it compact - the 90 cron is a bit too big. The 90 summarit fits the bill in terms of size and speed but I'm a bit skeptical about the whole Leica budget lens thing.
The 75 Cron would be another option..if it was possible to get one. It seems to be out of stock everywhere though. Plus 75mm is a bit too short.....Show more →
I have no experience with the Summarit. There is an excellent reveiw done by Guy at GetDPI comparing the 90 Summarit, on here:
h00ligan wrote:
Thanks guys. I try not to get too disheartened as I've only been at this a year.
Luka, I'm 90% sold that instead of an m9 as my first full frame , I'll get the 5dmk2. It just makes more sense at my (lack of) skill level. The bummer is the weight. I'll be selling the 7d (I Really got that purchase wrong when deciding between it and the 5d).
Can you recommend a good standard prime (af may be preferred, not sure)?
Another possibility is to try some mf m mount lenses on my gf1 or a nex. I'm not sure what it is I am not happy with, I think lens color and contrast is a big part. The sigma 30/1.4 has good color and contrast..but to my eye a fair amount of fringing and misses focus.
Sharpening...I have tried many many methods, lab + unsharp, lightroom raw with option key for clarity, pk sharpener (good but not great IMO), masked sharpening, duplicate layer with hi pass a la LL)
Finally, I think it really would be a benefit to take a small photo trip out of town. You know I live in the desert..and hate the scenery...so I am bored and uninspired here..it's really even too new for urban decay. So some money should be allocated to traveling rather than gear.
Anyway, I'm sure I sound whiney and indecisive..apologies. I'm just relatively new and trying to find what works well with me..I guess everyone has to find their right gear. Meanwhile I'll continue to read and learn, and appreciate all of your input.
I'd also like to add... My name is Edward feels silly to continue with a screen name here. Too tight knit
P.s. Thanks for your input thrice, much appreciated. ...Show more →
If you have a 7D and don't mind the crop factor, may I suggest two options.
First, you keep the 7D, and pickup some Zeiss glass. You should be happy with your overall increase in quality (yes it's that noticeable). Then later on when either the 5DII is replaced, or you really just outgrow the 1.6 crop, you pick yourself up a 5DII (or replacement).
That or, if you really want small and light w/the ability to switch lenses, get yourself a NEX5 with adapter, get yourself some M lenses and shoot with that. My fiance just picked up a NEX5 and I really think it's a good little camera for it's size. This way you can build up your lens collection first, then invest in bodies later.
To be honest though, aside from the fact that "I have a camera slung around my neck 24/7" the 5DII ZE combo really isn't that bad. When I plan an outing and take my 5DII it's not heavy. It just gets heavy when I'm out doing regular things like grocery shopping and eating at restaurants. That's the time the M9 shines for me size wise.. So really the 5DII ZE combo isn't that big (and I usually have at least two lenses, one on camera and one in a lowepro bag attached to my belt).
Thanks Adam! Lenses first and all. Tbh I mind the crop factor. I definitely appreciate the real world weight discussion. I cant count how often I've not taken the dslr, even being new. ... That is one thing that drives my desire for the m9. A big one.
