The more M9 shots I see the more convinced I am I need one. Only issue is.. i suck at photography compared to the posters here, so I pass. The m9 shots in this thread are outstanding.
How much post are you M9 users going through? Particularly contrast. I see enough recurring themes to think that contrast and detail are not a direct result of post.. which would mean I have a strong starting point... alternately I guess I should get much better before spending that money, since my skills are obviously lacking.
I look at the l-cam forums and I see m9 shots that could have been taken with an iphone + dof..I think i'm beyond some users.. but man, it is tempting to buy the best!!
I could buy an m9, but I'm not thinking a ff rangefinder would be best used in my hands. You people make me want to spend my money!
Thank you Rod!
Nice shots Ulrik Really like #1.
Adam, LR3 has the same RAW engine as CS5, and it is excellent. Just use the embedded profiles or your own rather than Adobe's. Otherwise an excellent program.
Yes Carsten is correct. Baso ISO for the M9, is amazing and really is better than the 5DII IMO
adamdewilde wrote:
Jeff thanks, in the photos you've showed me, I'm sold on the 75lux, maybe I need to see more photos of the Voigtlander though.
BTW, what's the going rate on these forums for a 75lux? Any specific model to look out for? I tried one at the camera shop, and I couldn't hit focus at 1.4, maybe it had issues, or maybe my M9 does?!!
I'm going to give my M9 a month, if it doesn't make me 5DII+ZE happy, I'm selling it
Adam,
Something is wrong if you aren't getting a super-clean base ISO from the M9. It's much, much cleaner than my 5DII ever was, and has tremendous shadow latitude--I can push the shadows up 2-3 stops with no problem.
As for the 75 'Lux, a good condition Canada model will go for about $2400 or so. People will pay twice that for a German one. They are identical, and apparently even the lenses for the German ones were made at the Elcan Canada facility, then shipped to Germany for assembly after the Canada plant was sold. It's collector value only on the German ones.
If you find a Lux 75 for $2400 in good condition where the owner can vouch for its focus accuracy on an M8 or M9 or where you can return it if needed, you better grab that puppy as fast as you can. Mine was vouched for by the two previous owners who have excellent reputations and I still ended up adjusting my rangefinder to get it right. That after thinking my RF was right because it was accurate with the Lux 50 and the Cron 90. Turns out the Lux 50 is very forgiving and it happened to be right on for the Cron 90. I ended up having to do a balancing act between the Lux 75 and Cron 90 and the Cron 90 is harder to use now.
Adam, sorry but I've forgotten. Are the images you're posting taken with the X1 or have you tried an M8? If you haven't tried an M8, I strongly suggest that you do. You can always sell it if you decide to get the M9 and it'll give you a chance to get a better idea what lenses you like best.
Rod, I've seen several recently at that price, including one listed right now on the RFF, and one here at $2500 not too long ago. They can range up from there if they have the original boxes, etc, but for a shooter's lens, that's not atypical if you look around.
As for the calibration, you really can't guarantee much. If the lens is off, it will be noticeable even on film. What you want is a lens that is well-calibrated. The longer and faster the lens, the harder it is to nail focus with a RF system. For those who want they best, you can send your camera and lenses all to someone like Don Goldberg and have them all matched. Leica will also do this, but it takes much longer for them to turn it around. Another resource in the US is Steve Choi in LA.
I got lucky and paid $2600 for a mint one, late copy, in the box, and 6-bit coded by Leica. I think it had never even been used.
I will try to post some images of my problem. I just updated the firmware as well, so I will try to play a bit today with the camera and see if the problem has improved.
Thanks for showing me images ulrikft2, as I said the M9 shots look great in websize, but at 100% view at base ISO, I see grain in the transitions of color. Kinda reminds me of film, but I don't like it
Your full sized previews don't show it as much as on my M9, so I'm hoping it's a firmware thing, and that my update fixed the problem. Though if something were wrong with the M9 I own, I could probably sell it at a premium because it really looks like I'm using a film body.
Also, good to know about the 75lux pricing, I'll check into it, but the one I testing I couldn't hit focus on, so I'm guessing it was either the lens or my eyes.. I'm pretty good with my ZE lenses and old Praktica so I don't think it was me, maybe my bad M9 or bad lens?!
Adam, looking at the shot you posted again, is that showing the "dirty" base ISO? There is a lot of flare there. I wonder if the sensor or the lens elements aren't completely clean?
I also have an older 75 Lux which I have been pondering selling. This is the previous construction, with a separate hood, which I prefer to the newer one. The optics are identical. It focuses accurately on my M8, along with my 90AA, 50/1.4A and so on. I would sell for 1800 Euro, which actually seems cheaper than the States at this point. Very good shape. PM me if interested.
zombii wrote:
If you find a Lux 75 for $2400 in good condition where the owner can vouch for its focus accuracy on an M8 or M9 or where you can return it if needed, you better grab that puppy as fast as you can. Mine was vouched for by the two previous owners who have excellent reputations and I still ended up adjusting my rangefinder to get it right. That after thinking my RF was right because it was accurate with the Lux 50 and the Cron 90. Turns out the Lux 50 is very forgiving and it happened to be right on for the Cron 90. I ended up having to do a balancing act between the Lux 75 and Cron 90 and the Cron 90 is harder to use now.
Adam, sorry but I've forgotten. Are the images you're posting taken with the X1 or have you tried an M8? If you haven't tried an M8, I strongly suggest that you do. You can always sell it if you decide to get the M9 and it'll give you a chance to get a better idea what lenses you like best.
M9 for the shot I posted. I use to own the M8 and looking at the two files, I find the M8 IQ to be better at base ISOs... again maybe this firmware update I applied this morning will fix that.. I'll let you know ASAP.
Would love to use a 75 lux for a week (don't want to have to resell it if it's not my cup of tea), the one I tested I couldn't focus, so it was either a calibration issue, or the 75 wide open is one hard lens to focus!
carstenw wrote:
Adam, looking at the shot you posted again, is that showing the "dirty" base ISO? There is a lot of flare there. I wonder if the sensor or the lens elements aren't completely clean?
I also have an older 75 Lux which I have been pondering selling. This is the previous construction, with a separate hood, which I prefer to the newer one. The optics are identical. It focuses accurately on my M8, along with my 90AA, 50/1.4A and so on. I would sell for 1800 Euro, which actually seems cheaper than the States at this point. Very good shape. PM me if interested....Show more →
Yep, at 200 ISO, and it's pretty dirty. Not talking about flair or a dirty sensor, I'm talking about color noise, but more like when you scan a film negative into your computer... If I showed you the 100% vs a 100% I've taken with my 5DII you'd see exactly what I mean... Let me test the new firmware, if it doesn't/didn't help I'll then post a 100% crop to give everyone an idea.
$2,300 is roughly how much I'd pay for a made in Canada one here.. $2,800 for a german made one... I see that the above quotes are all in line with the pricing here, I guess it's just a question of how I could calibrate my lenses and camera myself, as I don't want to have to send the camera off for X amount of time, and pay XXX amount of dollars, if I'm just going to turn around and sell the system next month.
Hence me wanting to do it myself.
That or, if it's cheap enough, I don't mind having someone do it for me, but is it going to come back in a week or like 3 months? Someone on here said 3 days turn around, but I'm not sure about the dealers here in Singapore.
I can tell you how I did it on the M8. Not sure if it's the same for an M9. It helps if you have a couple of longer lenses with narrow DOF that both focus about the same. The Lux 75, Cron 90 and Canon 50/0.95 (and probably the Noctilux) are all good candidates. I've read the Elmarit 135 also has a pretty narrow depth of field.
I have a hard time believing that has any effect on the noise you're seeing though.
Adam, if you are not getting really clean files, there must be a problem. Either sensor, or PP. Something is obviously not right
I have both the 90 Summicron AA and the Elmarit, both calibrated across the range. Both lenses are very easy to focus, and do nail the point of focus every time.
Before I had both lenses calibrated, when I would focus at about 2 to 3 metres, there was about 8 cms of back focus, which wide open, would cause softness when taking a shot of portrait. Distance it was fine again. This was confirmed by the lab, and was adjusted and both are very easy to focus now.
I had an M8.2 and there is no difference in IQ between the two. Remember, it's really the same sensor with a slightly different color filter array and a different arrangement of the microlenses on the edges/corners of the sensor (actually in areas where there was no sensor on the cropped M8). A firmware update is not going to correct anything here; if your M9 has a real noise problem, it's going to be a hardware problem. You really should post some 100% images with the EXIF details so we can all take a look.
As for calibrating your M9, you need to be really careful. There are interplays between near and far focus calibration that can be tricky to balance out. To do it right, you really need a jig/collimator. The same applies to the lenses. A professional can do it quite quickly and here in the US it will cost you about $125. I can't imagine that it would cost much more in Singapore or that it would too hard to find someone who can do it.
As for your issues focusing a 75 'Lux, it is a very hard lens to focus. If you have any astigmatism or if your vision is not perfect, it can make it harder still. Before you conclude it's the lens or the camera, make sure you do some testing. I used a ruler and some lined paper and took a whole series of shots to make sure I was consistently focusing (in my case I was testing the 75mm Summicron--my copy was front-focusing and needed adjustment). Finally, as Rod pointed out, a magnifier can make it much easier to focus. You might want to try one.
