I subscribed yesterday to Sean Reid's reviews and I've gone through the M9 review as well as a bunch of lens reviews. I must say that I'm not too impressed. The design of the site is awful with a fixed flash layout making it impossible to do simple things such as open example images in new tabs to flip between them. His reviews were OK, but much less detailed than Lloyd Chambers' and while I know it's a question of personal preference but I'm not crazy about his photos. He does everything in terms of B/W street photography but I can't say that I'm particularly inspired by them.
If it had been the only thing I had seen of M9 photos I would never have considered it. Chambers may be a bit more critical (although Reid raises exactly the same points) but his images are much more convincing to me. So far the best M9 evangelist I've seen is probably Steve Huff. His photos with the M9 are really excellent.
Anyway, if you have a Reid subscription but never tried Lloyd Chambers, try it. It's in a completely different league in scope, detail and not to mention the usability of the site.
Luka, I'm not a big fan of Sean's camera reviews; however, his lens reviews are very thorough. It's a different style than Lloyd's and I appreciate it because it's much more neutral. Lloyd does have his biases and he doesn't hide them well.
The main issue I have with Lloyd is that he really doesn't like the rangefinder, and he complains about things that are just inherent to the system. He definitely hits the real problems in his reviews, but he also piles on about stuff that is just irrelevant IMO. I also don't feel he has really taken the time to learn how to use a RF. He has WAY too many problems that no one else shares. It doesn't matter how long you own a system, unless you are willing to invest the time to learn it and accept it for what it is, you won't master it. When I decided to give the M system a try, I bought an M8.2 and forced myself to use it instead of the 5DII. Over time, as I learned its quirks, I found myself able to use either the DSLR or M system with similar ease, accepting the strengths and weaknesses of each system--but preferring the M for the portability and image quality.
Anyway...I digress. Back to some images shortly. Processing some of today's shots.
jhapeman wrote:
Luka, I'm not a big fan of Sean's camera reviews; however, his lens reviews are very thorough. It's a different style than Lloyd's and I appreciate it because it's much more neutral. Lloyd does have his biases and he doesn't hide them well.
The main issue I have with Lloyd is that he really doesn't like the rangefinder, and he complains about things that are just inherent to the system. He definitely hits the real problems in his reviews, but he also piles on about stuff that is just irrelevant IMO. I also don't feel he has really taken the time to learn how to use a RF. He has WAY too many problems that no one else shares. It doesn't matter how long you own a system, unless you are willing to invest the time to learn it and accept it for what it is, you won't master it. When I decided to give the M system a try, I bought an M8.2 and forced myself to use it instead of the 5DII. Over time, as I learned its quirks, I found myself able to use either the DSLR or M system with similar ease, accepting the strengths and weaknesses of each system--but preferring the M for the portability and image quality.
Anyway...I digress. Back to some images shortly. Processing some of today's shots.
I like the look of that 40mm 'Cron. I just picked up a Minolta M-Rokkor 40mm f/2 today at a bargain price. So far, I like the look, and darn its small! I'll get some pics up shortly.
denoir wrote:
I subscribed yesterday to Sean Reid's reviews and I've gone through the M9 review as well as a bunch of lens reviews. I must say that I'm not too impressed. The design of the site is awful .....
I agree.
I post this photo, M8 with 35 Summicron ASPH, to stay on topic:
Spring training in the Santa Ynez Valley:
RF is a system, that you either love or hate. My suggestion Luka, is if you are really interested is to try it out. It is too much money to invest, if it is not right for you. You might find that the camera's operation is very much against the way you enjoy taking photographs. IMO, I am having fun, and enjoying taking shots again, with a new perspective. But that's me
So, today I went to a camera show in Pasadena and got a really good deal on a mint M6 Chrome Classic with the presentation box. I couldn't resist it as I have been shooting some black and white film lately, so it's now in my clutches. She's a beauty, and here she is with a 50mm f/2.8 Elmar-M Collapsible, taken with my M9 and the 75mm f/2 Summicron AA wide open.
charles.K wrote:
RF is a system, that you either love or hate. My suggestion Luka, is if you are really interested is to try it out. It is too much money to invest, if it is not right for you. You might find that the camera's operation is very much against the way you enjoy taking photographs. IMO, I am having fun, and enjoying taking shots again, with a new perspective. But thanks me
jhapeman wrote:
So, today I went to a camera show in Pasadena and got a really good deal on a mint M6 Chrome Classic with the presentation box. I couldn't resist it as I have been shooting some black and white film lately, so it's now in my clutches. She's a beauty, and here she is with a 50mm f/2.8 Elmar-M Collapsible, taken with my M9 and the 75mm f/2 Summicron AA wide open.
denoir wrote:
I'm thinking about perhaps getting a dedicated device where I would just plug in the memory card but they tend to be overly complicated or have to little space and I'd need two of them.. sigh.. nothing's easy.
I went this route. I use 4GB & 8GB cards (only 12mpix 5D) and backup to a Hyperdrive Space and a cheap Digimate III every night. Depending on how long the trip is I often leave the images on the cards unti'll I run out of space.
One device lives in my backpack and other in my girl's backpack (or whoever I happen to be travelling with) in order to minimize risk of loss or theft. If im on my own then they at least get spread across my bags.
In future (when I can afford it) this will become two devices with SSD drives for added durability.
I quite like the Hyperdrive model I picked. The more expensive models are largely a waste of money as the color screen is not really useful to me. The monochrome LCD of the Space uses far less power and is less vulnerable.
When I'm actually on assignment I shoot raw + small jpg and take a small laptop to work on selections while on the road using the jpgs as a "proof sheet" of sorts.
This system has worked well over the last few years.
A few shots from a walk-around today with a friend after we hit the camera sale in Pasadena. Kind of big swap meet with all kinds of old used gear, some common, some unusual. We headed down to Arroyo Seco Park under the Colorado Street Bridge. It's a beautiful old historical bridge built in 1913, and quite an engineering marvel for its time.
zombii wrote:
Looks like it's in great shape Jeff.
It looks like it was never used. I am probably going to send it off for a full CLA just to make sure its in top shape, but it looks brand-new--and I love the chrome finish. My M8.2 was chrome, and I'm still bummed that there is no chrome M9.
I loaded a roll of Adox CMS 20 film in it tonight; it's the highest resolution B&W film (or any film) that you can buy. I'm looking forward to the results. It seems that digital just doesn't emulate what B&W film can do, even with the best software plugins.
Nice shots with the Minolta Jeff. That's about what I paid for the Cron 40. Interesting rendering with the Heliar. Nicely sharp in the foreground but the OOF areas are different. Look forward to seeing more with it.
zombii wrote:
Nice shots with the Minolta Jeff. That's about what I paid for the Cron 40. Interesting rendering with the Heliar. Nicely sharp in the foreground but the OOF areas are different. Look forward to seeing more with it.
Thanks, Rod. Apparently the Summicon-C and Rokkor-M are identical optically, and differ only in coatings, and that's only a theory. Super little lens.
jhapeman wrote:
Luka, I'm not a big fan of Sean's camera reviews; however, his lens reviews are very thorough. It's a different style than Lloyd's and I appreciate it because it's much more neutral. Lloyd does have his biases and he doesn't hide them well.
The main issue I have with Lloyd is that he really doesn't like the rangefinder, and he complains about things that are just inherent to the system. He definitely hits the real problems in his reviews, but he also piles on about stuff that is just irrelevant IMO. I also don't feel he has really taken the time to learn how to use a RF. He has WAY too many problems that no one else shares. It doesn't matter how long you own a system, unless you are willing to invest the time to learn it and accept it for what it is, you won't master it. When I decided to give the M system a try, I bought an M8.2 and forced myself to use it instead of the 5DII. Over time, as I learned its quirks, I found myself able to use either the DSLR or M system with similar ease, accepting the strengths and weaknesses of each system--but preferring the M for the portability and image quality....Show more →
The thing is I think that Lloyd's photography (at least what he publishes) makes using a rangefinder problematic. He likes precise compositions and the use of texture in his shots. Usually the texture is on planar subjects and to get the best from a lens requires extremely exact focus - much more exact than you can focus by eye (regardless if it's by range finding or on a focusing screen). He also does a lot of wide aperture landscape photography. So he has three problems with the M9 there - one is the difficulty of getting a precise composition using frame lines, the second is a lack of live view for perfect focus and the third one is the lack of any information on the DOF and how the OOF areas look. Finally the lower res screen and the slow image review/zoom makes it cumbersome to have a trial-and-error approach. So for his purposes the M9 is not nearly as reliable as a DSLR. Still, since he insists on bringing it along and using it I'm guessing that despite his problems with it that he likes it. And he gets some pretty nice shots with it as well. It's also quite possible that he uses the M9 for private photos that he doesn't publish.
I think the key is to use each system for what they are best at. My own approach would be that a rangefinder would fill one of four slots of different systems - large sensor compact/rangefinder/DSLR/medium format and that I would not try to phase out the DSLR(s) in favor of the rangefinder but use each where it made best sense.
As for Sean's lens reviews, I have no objections about his analysis and conclusions. I've looked through a couple of his Zeiss glass reviews of lenses that I own and know well and he has been pretty much spot on. He is perhaps even a bit more reliable than Lloyd as far as the conclusions go as the latter is a dyed in the wool Zeiss fanatic and can be a bit too uncritical when it comes to Zeiss lenses. Having said that, Sean's tests are not nearly as comprehensive as Lloyd's, his technical shots are severely impaired by the crappy design of the site and finally his example photos are really not to my liking. After looking at them rather than urge to get a lens I get the feeling that I better stay away. Random low contrast street shots with no composition is not my thing. I know that it falls within the realm of documentary photography rather than art photography but I have zero interest in it and as far as I'm concerned those kinds of shots could easily be taken by a cheap P&S (or an X1 ).
Sorry for the long essay
Congrats on the M6 - it's a gorgeous camera. IMO the M6 & MP look much better than the M7/M8/M9.
denoir wrote:
So for his purposes the M9 is not nearly as reliable as a DSLR. Still, since he insists on bringing it along and using it I'm guessing that despite his problems with it that he likes it. And he gets some pretty nice shots with it as well.
I think the key is to use each system for what they are best at. My own approach would be that a rangefinder would fill one of four slots of different systems - large sensor compact/rangefinder/DSLR/medium format and that I would not try to phase out the DSLR(s) in favor of the rangefinder but use each where it made best sense.
Congrats on the M6 - it's a gorgeous camera. IMO the M6 & MP look much better than the M7/M8/M9. ...Show more →
You hit on a few key things here: One's style of shooting can favor one camera over another. I think you are right with Lloyd on that count, and it sounds like for yourself as well.
Second, that different systems are better at different things. I personally still have a DSLR for macro work, and for that purpose the 7D is the best choice for me--high pixel density and higher DOF than the FF 5DII (the rare case where I prefer a cropped sensor). For the rest of my shooting, my style is more extemporaneous so the RF is a really good fit for me.
The M6 is so pretty. I would prefer the aperture-priority mode of the M7, but for half the price, I can live with the M6.
