I think you are right, I'll be heading to the dealer and use the try before you buy thing they have going on.
At first I though if you go a bit carefull with it it should be fine. So I rely on other people's experiences.
For my business Elinchrom has the advantage. I shoot mostly on location and rarely use assistants so being able to adjust the power from my camera is very convenient. The digital adjustments don't bother me but i can see how some would prefer the knobs. When I shoot outdoors I typically have a rough idea of what power setting I need so it doesn't take much adjustment from my camera. It helps indoors as well. I can set my gear up for headshots and control the light on a boom without lowering the lightstand. When the pocketwizard comes out for Nikon I will have the higher sync speed as well. The Profoto mount is definitely better but as other people have stated it's not like the Elinchrom mount doesn't work, it's just the Profoto is much better. For price of one 7B and a head I can get three Ranger kits. More lights means more versatility in my lighting setups. My Elinchroms have always been dependable and the price is right.
About the Hypersync, is it really so that you can then sync the studio strobes up to 1/4000 for example with help of the powerst4?
And I think it's clear that profoto is more expensive, but as we go along I haven't heard about anythin but the mount which would justify the massive extra cost. durabilty could be an issue. So this makes me wonder what is the lifespan of say an elinchrom ranger RX speed vs that of a Profoto 7B.
If an elinchrom softbox fell off of a head it must not have been attached correctly. I've never had a problem mounting them to the head and certainly never had them fall off. I've had the 27" beauty dish boomed many times without any signs of it falling. I've worked in wind that was so hard I had to have someone hold the stand and the lighthead to keep it from blowing over or rotating. It had the 53" softbox on it and it didn't come off. It's not the easiest to mount, but I can't see it ever coming off if you lock it.
Eric, I you put it that way it is indeed kind a strange that people have had the softbox falling off.
But what is clear is the fact that it isn't the best of mounts, so hopefully Elinchrom listens and fixes the issue in the future.
So untill know I guess I have the folliwing pro and cons;
Profoto;
pro's; better mount. especially when mixing it with modifiers from other brands.
some prefer the knobs
more places to rent, meaning better renting capabilities
many light modifiers
Choice for built in pocketwizards
better protection of the flash tube with collor correction
con's: expensive
I guess a bit heavier
Has no plans to work with the new Powerst4 of pocketwizard
as far as I know the usabilty of heads on different battery packs is
somewhat limited when releasing new heads/ or battery
somepeople complain about the beep noise of the acute600 that can't be turned off
elinchrom:
Pro; opposite to what many think EL has more lightmodifiers then profoto
light boxes are easy to open and close up
lighter than profoto system
price quality kind of better
Quadra see's pre flash of canon TL system.
Con's: Not the best mount out there
rental stores less than profoto
flash tube is fragile and the protection unit is not collor balanced
I guess that is it for know. If anyone would like to fill this up feel free.
Opinions on subjects like this are helpful to a degree, but are ALWAYS biased. Mine is no different:
I moved from Eli last year to Profoto and wish I'd paid the premium sooner. My biggest regret isn't actually the premium I paid for Profoto vs Eli (though it would be nice if there was none), it was the additional $$ I lost in making the switch - $$ I could have saved had I ponied-up for Profoto on day 1. I can give you a bucketful of reasons why I happily made the switch and would never go back (and yes, it goes far beyond the collar), but that won't help you in your decision and just spark more debate.
Hit some shops or rental outlets, buy a local pro who shoots ___ a beer and try both systems in depth. Spend as much hands-on time with them as you can; ideally shooting with both. Look at what modifiers you think you'll end up using (now and down the road) and how you see your lighting needs growing. You're buying into a system, not just buying a discrete pack/mono and a mistake today will cost you $$ later in any switch.
Oh, any Profoto battery system (AcuteB, 7B, B2/3) can be used while charging. On the AcuteB if the rate of use taxes the standard charger, the 2A charger from the 7B (with 2x the charging rate) can be used with the AcuteB as, in effect, an AC adapter (w/modeling light off). The AcuteB also has an 85W modeling light bypass adapter that takes the modeling light off the battery and onto AC when in studio. Both work great.
mumbles76 wrote:
The reality is, you place a light on a mount, you spin it, you lock it. Done. I really don't understand why people have such a problem with this.
For me it was clearly a problem of mix & match -- the old Photoflex speedring was made from very thin material which didn't catch on the locking pin. So if everything was mounted and locked correctly, it could still be taken off easily.
"The reality is, you place a light on a mount, you spin it, you lock it. Done. I really don't understand why people have such a problem with this. I've setup 74" and 69" outdoors without fail. People are stating their reflectors fell off, give me a break. How does a reflector fall off if it locks? Unless you didn't lock it."
Yep couldn't agree more. If you place any one of their modifiers on the mount correctly and "lock" it, you would have to destroy the light to get it off.
Stevebakhuis wrote:
opposite to what many think EL has more lightmodifiers then profoto
I don't think it's true. I believe Profoto may have more modifiers (I'm too lazy to actually check so I may be wrong).
Striplights and Paras come to mind - I don't think Eli offers them. Same with strip softboxes.
Eli OTOH has DeepTO and indirect light banks.
Nevertheless, it doesn't really matter - you can use any modifier on Profoto, and it's most likely the same for Elinchrom.
I switched from Elinchrom to Profoto and I'm glad I did for the reasons mentioned by others. I also never liked Elinchrom mount - it's not bad compared to other bayonet type systems (at least it has locking mechanism) but it's a garbage compared to Profoto. I also had big modifiers being ripped off by the wind. They were locked, but the mount broke.
The biggest reason to choose Elinchrom over Profoto is the price (and it's a big one, no doubt).
Profoto is expensive, but I recommend looking for used units. Profoto is bomb proof, and even older units will work for years and years to come. You can buy used Pro-7b for $1800.
If you want something smaller AcuteB is superb too.
If you are talking studio generators, Elinchrom doesn't even have anything worth mentioning.
Ranger is the best they got, period. It's definitely outstanding generator and I wouldn't hesitate to recommend it. If you factor the price - it's a heck of a deal.
Recently I even considered adding a Ranger to my stable, but in the end decided to go with Pro-B2 instead.
Umm, Marcin... you must be too lazy to look at Elinchrom's site also. They have the Digital RX generator line which have great specs as well. As good as profoto's? Maybe not. But they also don't cost a Hasselblad H4d-40 either.
mumbles76 wrote:
Umm, Marcin... you must be too lazy to look at Elinchrom's site also. They have the Digital RX generator line which have great specs as well. As good as profoto's? Maybe not. But they also don't cost a Hasselblad H4d-40 either.
Hey Brendan,
yes, I know about their Digital RX. However for a studio pack I think it's pretty weak due to long FD (t.5 1/3500s vs t.5 1/12000 for the 7a/8a). That is for the 1200ws pack, 2400ws is even worse with t.5 1/1700s.
To be fair 1200ws is really more than enough in the studio IMO, unless you shoot cars, but then who cares about FD
Digital AS is really not worth mentioning - I don't even know why they still offer them.
I'd rather use Ranger that is more versatile. For me, and I know some will disagree, Ranger (and maybe Quadra) is Elinchrom biggest strength. Also their modifiers seem to be perfect for location work since they can be set up in a matter of seconds.
Since the OP asked about battery packs he's probably not really interested in AC generators so it's just two guys talking.
I'd say when it comes to battery packs either Eli or Profoto are excellent choices.
Just a quick note about the above summary of Profoto pro's and con's. The flash ready beep of the Profoto AcuteB 600 can easily be turned off using the provided switch that controls that funciton.
I like my Profoto AcuteB 600R units, but I have never used any other studio flash units, so I am not a good one to ask about a comparison. I do like that with the FlexTT5 I can use the built in PocketWizard feature in my Profoto's, and control Canon remote flashes in to the mix at the same time. Of course the Profoto power level is still controled by the pack, but the other smaller Canon flashes can be set to various manual power levels remotely, and everything triggers properly.
Elinchrom modifiers - I think that Jan Kiler may have gotten it wrong. Elinchrom makes 55 modifiers which fit on every head Elinchrom has ever made, with the exception of the Quadra head. If you use the Quadra Reflector Adapter, 53 of the 55 accessories work. - In terms of cohesiveness of the line, in comparison Profoto offers 34 modifiers.
My advice is if you want to be in the photography game for a long time and have patience, buy into profoto. Be aware though that when profoto comes out with new heads/packs, they often aren't compatible with older heads/packs (mainly packs, but also radio frequencies for the built in radio slaves if I'm not mistaken).
My only other complaint was that you cannot turn all beeps off on this strobe. You can turn the misfire beep off but not the flash confirmation beep (which totally doesn't make sense to me - why have a switch that can turn one beep off but not the other. Just make it a 3 way switch, problem solved). This meant for me I couldn't use the AcuteB indoors for weddings or during speeches at conferences/events etc as the beep was too loud.
Marcin Harla wrote:
Hey Brendan,
yes, I know about their Digital RX. However for a studio pack I think it's pretty weak due to long FD (t.5 1/3500s vs t.5 1/12000 for the 7a/8a).
I should also mention that I have similar thoughts about Profoto Acute line, except the AcuteB which I think is excellent.
Acute and Digital RX are similarly priced, and they should be - neither is really good, but they are not horrible - if that's what you need.
Both Profoto Acute and Elinchrom Digital RX are outperformed by their battery operated generators. I'd rather get Ranger or Pro-B2 and have excellent packs that can be both used in studio or on location.
I wouldn't worry about which line has the most modifiers. I don't think you will be limited in that aspect by either brand. Both brands have a strong following with pros. Both are durable and produce great light.
Can one of the profoto guys explain the major differences between the 7B and B2 lines? I know the B3 offers the new battery and R/Air signify the radio control abilities but wasn't sure if there was a big difference between the two lines and the heads that they use. Does it come down to mostly flash duration and recycle time?
Not sure about the Acute line, but Pro line is usually at least 1 generation back compatible, sometimes two generations.
For instance you can use older Pro-7, and ProHeads with Pro-8a generator, and I believe after upgrading Pro-6 heads you can also use them with Pro-8a (it's inexpensive mod as far as I remember).
Pro-7 launched in 1998, which means you can still use 12 years old heads with newest packs.
According to Profoto, Pro-7b generator can be used with Pro-5, Pro-6, pro-7, Pro-7b, ProHeads. That's few generations back. Pro-5 heads are ancient.
Steve,
you got that backwards. You can turn off the 'generator ready' (or misfire) beep, but you cannot turn the long beep that indicates underexposed image. It makes sense, because it lets you know it didn't have time to recycle. It would be nice if you could turn it off, but really, it's not a big deal. You cannot use flash during the wedding ceremony anyway.
stuuke wrote:
Can one of the profoto guys explain the major differences between the 7B and B2 lines? I know the B3 offers the new battery and R/Air signify the radio control abilities but wasn't sure if there was a big difference between the two lines and the heads that they use. Does it come down to mostly flash duration and recycle time?
Yes, the main difference is recycle time and flash duration. It takes only 1.8s to recycle at full power, which is crazy fast. Minimum FD is 1/7400s.
Other big difference is modeling light - with B2 max modeling light is 250W vs 100W for Pro-7b. Also, with B2 you can switch between timed and continuous modeling light (great when using the pack in the studio, connected to power).
Finally, B2 optionally can have PW module built in, while Pro-7b cannot.
There is one advantage Pro-7b has over B2: more flashes per battery (250 vs 200). It's most likely due to faster recycling, there is no free meal. Now, if you use ProHead with 250W modeling light and fan (fan works with B2 generator) the battery will be drained even faster, but you can always use 100w bulbs or just use ProB heads
I love them both, but B2 are better units - if only they were a little less expensive.
B2 and B3 are virtually the same (apart from AirS and battery)
You asked why I would switch? Well... and I WILL get flamed for this, it comes down to who uses what gear.
My favorite photographers use profoto, and none use Elinchrom. Im sure this has alot to do with rentals and getting an additional income from not having to rent (if they own).. but it still would sway me. Yes, I know its not the gear, its the photogapher..but still.. the only high level photographer that I know that uses Elinchrom is Kelby and Mcnally and while I appreciate thier work, its not the same vain as what Im shooting for.
Now, I got to thinking about this last night and I think that theres a corelation between those that can afford to own PF gear and those that shoot MF digital and on some level it might be the difference in MF quality that I see, not so much the lighting.
I admit that Im a gear head, and I dont mind it. Its fun for me. Im constantly seeking better quality gear, and its not always the price that makes it HQ to me. Hell, my softlighter is the best mod I have and it was less than $100.. but i DO own just about every MOD that EL makes..
