fredmiranda.com
Login

Moderated by: Fred Miranda
  New fredmiranda.com Mobile Site
  New Feature: SMS Notification alert
  New Feature: Buy & Sell Watchlist
  

FM Forums | Leica & Alternative Gear | Join Upload & Sell

  

Archive 2010 · No more need for Canon MLU?, Live View Silent Shooting Mode

  
 
Mike K
Offline
• • • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.1 #1 · No more need for Canon MLU?, Live View Silent Shooting Mode



A recent post in the Canon forum referenced this entry where a researcher using a Canon 50D was trying to optimize Live View use for photo microscopy

http://krebsmicro.com/Canon_EFSC/index.html

He shows examples and communications with Chuck Westfall of Canon describing the camera sequence when using Live View Silent Mode. On the 5DII you get to this via Menu, Live View/Movie func. set, then Silent Shoot with a choice of disable, mode 1 and mode 2. Chuck's description is more detailed, but to summarize:

In Silent Shooting, mode disabled, when taking a picture the mirror stays up, but the shutter closes then opens to initiate the exposure. It closes again to end the shot and reopens to reinitiate Live View.

In the Silent Shooting mode 1, the mirror also stays up the whole time, but the shutter does not close nor reopen to initate the exposure. Rather the shutter stays open and the exposure is initiated electronically, with a soft click. The shutter then closes to end the exposure, then immediately reopens to reinitiate Live View. Continuous shooting is slowed down.

Silent Shooting mode 2 is similar to mode 1, but at the end of the exposure the shutter closes, but does not reopen until your finger pressure is off the shutter button. Continuous is not possible.

Since I have Zeiss ZE and TSE manual focus lenses I use Live View very frequently for tripod landscape shooting. I ran a test to see if either Live View Silent Shooting Mode 1 or 2 would be optimal for reducing vibration as both modes eliminate closing of the shutter to initiate the exposure.

Thus I set up a situation to amplify visual detection of MLU type vibration. I took the longest lens on hand, Canon 400 f5.6, added a 1.4X teleconverter and then slowed down the shutter speed with ISO 50, a circular polarizer and a 2 stop ND filter. I focused with Live View 5-10X on a house across the valley from inside my house, more than 1/2 mile away. Manfrotto 055CXPRO4 Carbon fiber tripod was used with RRS BH40 head. I used a remote in addition to a 2 sec delay to make sure no vibration was accidentally added by some other mechanism. At f8 I was at 1/15 sec and at f16 I was at 1/4 sec, bracketing the shutter range most susceptible to MLU type vibrations, 1/30 to 1/2 sec. All shots were in RAW, with some sharpening added during conversion, all at the same level of course.

Here is the full frame shot reduced in size for posting:

http://www.fototime.com/37B819B5F4F52C5/standard.jpg

While there are some nearby OOF branches framing the shot, I will evaluate only 100% crops of the center deck of the house.
Here is the crop of Live View Silent Shooting Disabled:

http://www.fototime.com/027A7AE1813B6EC/orig.jpg

Notice the bricks of the chimney, the cable running next to it, the wood crack in the upper right and the dark leaves of the potted plants on the right. In particular notice the wire tomato cage (funnel shaped).

Next is the same shot, same exposure, same focus, seconds later using Live View Silent Shooting Mode 1.

http://www.fototime.com/CE27F4FE75A364B/orig.jpg

Sharper. The tomato cage is much more detailed, and this is of a 2mm wire from >1/2 mi (~1km) away.


Here is the same exposure, same focus, using Live View Silent Shooting Mode 2.

http://www.fototime.com/DB71D4332E5E6F4/orig.jpg

the chimney and the plant leaves look pretty similar to Mode 1 but the wire tomato cage appears clearer in mode 2.



Here is the same shot at f16, 1/4 sec. Some manual refocusing between these next 3 shots and the previous 3, so don't make that comparison.
Live View Silent Shooting Disabled:

http://www.fototime.com/5C6E9C45651A235/orig.jpg




And the same exposure and focus seconds later using Live View Silent Shooting Mode 1

http://www.fototime.com/A40532DE42085E9/orig.jpg




And again the same exposure and focus seconds later using Live View Silent Shooting Mode 2

http://www.fototime.com/B96E9231E48C4C9/orig.jpg



In this sequence we can easily make out the Live View Silent Shooting Disabled is not as crisp as Mode 1. Mode 2 is very close to the detail of Mode 1; the tomato cage is just a bit sharper in Mode 2.

In summary, the Silent Shooting Mode 1 or 2 provides an small but consistent improvement in image sharpness over Live View Silent Shooting Disabled. This result is also consistent with the photo microscopy paper referred to above. Thanks to Charles Krebs for the write up and communication with C. Westfall. This result is also quite logical in that Silent Shooting Mode 1 & 2 use electronic shutter for first curtain, and avoid the additional mechanical closing and reopening of the shutter that is present in the Live View Silent Shooting Disabled. Traditional MLU operation is intermediate in vibration in that it does not require closing of the shutter to reopen it for the exposure as in Live View Silent Shooting Disabled, but does involve mechanically opening the shutter as opposed to electronically initiating exposure. The Krebs paper does support the Live View Silent Shooting Modes as being sharper than traditional MLU sequence, but I did not confirm that. Cameras with Live View Silent Shooting modes, currently 40D, 50D, 5DII, and 7D, would probably be sharper by not turning off Live View to return to MLU sequence. Unfortunately this feature is not enabled on the current 1D series bodies. My understanding is that on Nikon bodies, for Live View implementation the mirror momentarily swings down for an exposure reading immediately prior to exposure. For landscape photos, MLU certainly would be advisable with Nikon Live View as the mirror slap vibration would be much greater on top of the shutter induced vibration shown here.

The results presented above suggest that for Canon Live View Silent Shooting Mode 2 may be a bit better than Mode 1, but the difference is small, if any. There is no obvious reason for it to be different as the Modes 1 & 2 differ in what happens after the shutter closes to end the exposure.

It would seem that Canon has eliminated the need for a dedicated MLU button as Live View Silent Shooting mode 1 or 2 eliminates shutter opening induced vibrations and is an improvement over the MLU shutter sequence. In addition, Live View 5-10X is the the method of choice for Alternative Lens/Canon body shooters who use MF all the time.

Mike K



Jun 03, 2010 at 07:31 PM
Eric Gottesman
Offline
• • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.1 #2 · No more need for Canon MLU?, Live View Silent Shooting Mode


Sorry, but I can't (won't) read your post.

Your pics are so big that I have to scroll horizontally with each line of text.

Try reducing the size of your pics (smaller crops)

-Eric



Jun 04, 2010 at 04:33 AM
olyacme
Offline
• •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.1 #3 · No more need for Canon MLU?, Live View Silent Shooting Mode


That's all very nicely demonstrated, and the partial solid state shutter is a mark of things to come, but not all vibrations are alike. IME, though both are equally damaging, the resonant frequency of vibrations from a camera on a microscope is far higher than in long lens use. It also abates much more quickly, which gives a simpler, camera agnostic solution. Just set an exposure of a second or so, and use a closing curtain flash for illumination. By the time the flash is triggered, the vibration caused by the shutter will have died off.

/Acme



Jun 04, 2010 at 05:13 AM
randyp01
Offline
• •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.1 #4 · No more need for Canon MLU?, Live View Silent Shooting Mode


Thanks for the post. Very informative


Jun 04, 2010 at 06:45 AM
denoir
Offline
• • • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.1 #5 · No more need for Canon MLU?, Live View Silent Shooting Mode


Thank you for taking the time to test this Mike. The results pretty much confirm what I've assumed, but nothing beats a real experiment.

Luka



Jun 04, 2010 at 06:52 AM
Steve Spencer
Online
• • • • • • •
Upload & Sell: On
p.1 #6 · No more need for Canon MLU?, Live View Silent Shooting Mode


Thanks Mike for doing this test. It is an easy step to take this additional precaution and get rid of another source of vibration.


Jun 04, 2010 at 07:00 AM
AhamB
Offline
• • • • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.1 #7 · No more need for Canon MLU?, Live View Silent Shooting Mode


I see no difference between silent mode 1 and 2 and couldn't think why there would be. In mode 1 the shutter opens again after the exposure is finished, so the vibrations that the shutter opening causes couldn't affect the exposure.


Jun 04, 2010 at 07:59 AM
Mike K
Offline
• • • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.1 #8 · No more need for Canon MLU?, Live View Silent Shooting Mode


AhamB wrote:
I see no difference between silent mode 1 and 2 and couldn't think why there would be. In mode 1 the shutter opens again after the exposure is finished, so the vibrations that the shutter opening causes couldn't affect the exposure.


As I said in the post, there is no logical reason why silent mode 1 & 2 would be different from each other with regard to vibration affecting IQ. In both modes the shutter reopens to continue LV, its simply a matter of when. The difference seen in the photos may be by chance, as I didn't perform a large number of replicates for this test.
Mike K



Jun 04, 2010 at 02:30 PM
Drew_Persson
Offline
• • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.1 #9 · No more need for Canon MLU?, Live View Silent Shooting Mode


Thanks Mike, excellent! Very thorough.


Jun 05, 2010 at 12:38 PM





FM Forums | Leica & Alternative Gear | Join Upload & Sell

    
 

Welcome back
Log in to your account