john_a_g wrote:
Let's be clear on something Steve. EVERY time I have been on a baseline or sideline or gymnastics floor or any other type of arena it is in a professional capcity - representing the newspaper or my client with the full permission of the entity who controls access. It's comments like your "you may get lucky and know some one" that come across as elitist. Luck has nothing to do with why I am where I am.
And what you may not understand is that while I don't do photography full time, I fully understand and appreciate what it means to be a professional and deliver day in and day out.
So, if you want people to 'respect' your opinions and not label the things you say as elitist, then please refrain from making statements that infer I am on the sidelines only because I'm lucky and know someone. I've NOT made derogatory statements about you and I would appreciate the same respect.
But the honest truth is I don't care HOW a person got where they are - all I care about is how they act when they're there. If the brother of an AD is there taking snaps because of his family relationship but he's being respectful and following the guidelines he has just as much RIGHT (I say right because his presence was specifically approved) as I do even though I'm representing a newspaper and he is not. ...Show more →
My comments were NOT directed at you specifically but simply general comments for the whole. Reread my post and simply substitute "a photographer" for "you". That's should clear it up. I did not make any specific inferences to you, your experience, who you work for, or how you obtain your credentials. I don't know you so why would I comment on "you"? I simply used your post as a quote to illustrate my point not contradict or criticize you.
The point that I clearly made was simply that what some may perceive as elitist (and I gotta be honest, I'm getting real sick of that word) is simply someone trying to do their jobs under tight, and most of the time, stressful deadlines.
It is apparent to me that the original question as posed has once again quickly descended into familiar territory and unsurprisingly one which is not related to the topic. I am more than happy to let this thread die as it should and concede defeat to Rick's previous 9 page thread.
Thanks to the few of you who actually answered the original question of why you want photo credentials. Unfortunately I don't think we received enough responses to get a general consensus. For the few pros brave enough to offer opinions I'm sure this all seems like deja vu. And for those members of the "Coalition Against Elitist Pro Photographers" I'm sure we'll be hearing from you soon.
john_a_g wrote:
Still going huh? Ok, let me clarify my position.
So, the point is - being a professional, credentialed member of the media does not, IMO, make you elitist. But the opinions you express and how you express them regarding those who are not is what leads other people to view you that way.
Agreed, furthermore IMHO being a "professional" means more than simply being paid for what you do.
It means carrying yourself, and interacting with others, in a decent and respectful manner. Demeaning a person because of his/her "pro-sumer" camera gear, questioning people's legitimately granted credentials, resorting to sexual innuendo, etc. comes off as elitist and unprofessional...regardless of whether the photographer making such statements is a "pro photographer" or not.
This is a hilarious thread, Steve I like how you have to keep refocusing everyone. Here are my two cents.
1. I'm an athlete who has competed at the provincial and national level in a number of different sports, regrettably due to concussions I may never be able to play sports ever again. So, I picked up a camera and fell in love with it since day one.
I can't put the darn thing down. I love pictures plain and simple, without sports in my life I have to find something else to keep me happy. I have a burning desire to capture moments in sports as best as I can. In time with lots of work I plan to take pictures as a professional. I want credentials to pro events because that is the best way to get portfolio quality pictures. I get to meet working professionals, make connections, learn a couple of tricks here and there. If I try to walk through the doors of the Saddle Dome or GM Place with 2 bodies a 300mm and a 70-200 I won't get very far.
I just want the opportunity to learn and become better at my art
bcspdsktr wrote:
This is a hilarious thread, Steve I like how you have to keep refocusing everyone. Here are my two cents.
1. I'm an athlete who has competed at the provincial and national level in a number of different sports, regrettably due to concussions I may never be able to play sports ever again. So, I picked up a camera and fell in love with it since day one.
I can't put the darn thing down. I love pictures plain and simple, without sports in my life I have to find something else to keep me happy. I have a burning desire to capture moments in sports as best as I can. In time with lots of work I plan to take pictures as a professional. I want credentials to pro events because that is the best way to get portfolio quality pictures. I get to meet working professionals, make connections, learn a couple of tricks here and there. If I try to walk through the doors of the Saddle Dome or GM Place with 2 bodies a 300mm and a 70-200 I won't get very far.
I just want the opportunity to learn and become better at my art...Show more →
Don't let those thoughts keep you pointed in the wrong direction. Just because the best players in the world may play at the Saddledome or GM Place, doesn't mean the best pictures are made there. Portfolios don't need to have professional athletes to be strong bodies of work, but they do need to have powerful images.
Rick Denham wrote:
Don't let those thoughts keep you pointed in the wrong direction. Just because the best players in the world may play at the Saddledome or GM Place, doesn't mean the best pictures are made there. Portfolios don't need to have professional athletes to be strong bodies of work, but they do need to have powerful images.
Luckily my Uncle has contacts, I've been fortunate enough to get credentials to Calgary Roughneck games. I view the pro venues as a place to measure where I am in my photography, a much different pace of play. Don't get me wrong rick, I work for my school newspaper and cover every single collegiate game possible. Amateur sports is where I do 90% of my shooting and that is where I have received the majority of my quality pictures. However, I will continue take any opportunity offered to me, who knows if I will get that 1 unbelievable shot or meet that one person who will be an asset to know.
I get what you are saying, Its not where or what you shoot but how you shoot. Point well taken.
Steve Ickes wrote:
Page 6 ain't good enough! Rick posted an innocent enough topic full of insight and helpful information and he's was able to stir up enough controversy to stretch it to 9 pages! Just kidding of course, this isn't about how many pages one topic can generate but rather the content of those pages. Unfortunately, with the exception of a very small number of brave souls, I'm not sure I still understand what motivates photographers (beyond those already working) to want credentials. Yes, I can guess, as someone already has but I'd rather hear it directly from those involved. And let me be clear, my intention is NOT to draw out a bunch of answers and then judge and denounce those willing to be honest.
For "jetmutant": honestly, its not an easy road but you are correct in saying that "you don't get credentials to start networking, you need to start networking to get credentials." Now there are naysayers who will say that's a Catch .22 situation: you can't network without credentials and you can't get credentials without networking. But really, there are many possibilities to network in order to get credentials. Also remember that if and when you get credentialed while your fellow photographers might be able to present you with the occasional opportunity, they really aren't your best source of networking. Professional photographers might be good sources of referrals but they are not the decision-makers, the ones doing the hiring. They can recommend and vouch for you which certainly doesn't hurt. What they can provide is their invaluable and honest opinion of your portfolio which is key.
Feel free to PM me or any of the others pros here with any questions you may have. By the way, I'd love to work on airplanes. I've never done it but I do have a good set of tools and would be willing to work for free just for the experience and bragging rights ...Show more →
Hmmm again sttrokes beard of knowledge.... perplexed...
Not sure how to take the last statement, I don't work for free fixing aircraft or taking pictures, I have done/do weddings and make/made some money at that, I shoot lots of youth sports & make a fair bit of change at that also but just being out here by myself & not knowing this industry from the pro side, I don't know the right person to ask and obviously the right question to ask, it is however why I read this website to hopefuly get some insight into how to go about getting a job like this full time paid...
I would welcome you to the airfield to come out and work with a fine group of professionals, & watch this I can make my job sound like hell too... You will work weekends, holidays, & most likely midnight shift. You will miss birthdays & other family events. You will deal with several different chemicals that will likely be the cause of your death, you will suffer from the stress of ALWAYS having to be right because there is no do overs at 35.000 ft and 500 mph... you will sign for every little thing you do, because when (in the course of human events) you do make the slightest mistake at best you get a fine and a "fun" coversation with unsmiling fellas in navy blue suits, at worst you will be the cause for ending the lives of some 2 to 500 persons.... but then on the upside there few things on this earth like having a 747 at the end of the runway engines at full power, your feet on the brakes... or fixing something that 5 or 6 guys out of 400 can fix, that is the same attitude that drives me to to do my level best to make good photographs... as I stated before it is not bragging rights I am after I just want the access to take great photos like the other guys out there. and of course to make some money...
jetmutant wrote:
Hmmm again sttrokes beard of knowledge.... perplexed...
Not sure how to take the last statement, I don't work for free fixing aircraft or taking pictures, I have done/do weddings and make/made some money at that, I shoot lots of youth sports & make a fair bit of change at that also but just being out here by myself & not knowing this industry from the pro side, I don't know the right person to ask and obviously the right question to ask, it is however why I read this website to hopefuly get some insight into how to go about getting a job like this full time paid...
I would welcome you to the airfield to come out and work with a fine group of professionals, & watch this I can make my job sound like hell too... You will work weekends, holidays, & most likely midnight shift. You will miss birthdays & other family events. You will deal with several different chemicals that will likely be the cause of your death, you will suffer from the stress of ALWAYS having to be right because there is no do overs at 35.000 ft and 500 mph... you will sign for every little thing you do, because when (in the course of human events) you do make the slightest mistake at best you get a fine and a "fun" coversation with unsmiling fellas in navy blue suits, at worst you will be the cause for ending the lives of some 2 to 500 persons.... but then on the upside there few things on this earth like having a 747 at the end of the runway engines at full power, your feet on the brakes... or fixing something that 5 or 6 guys out of 400 can fix, that is the same attitude that drives me to to do my level best to make good photographs... as I stated before it is not bragging rights I am after I just want the access to take great photos like the other guys out there. and of course to make some money......Show more →
My statement was made tongue-in-cheek, hence the "smiley". Honestly, I cannot even imagine the amount of stress an airline mechanic must have to deal with. I'd never be able to sleep at night.
I can speak to one person's reason. He was a parent of a college football player and he was denied entry into the stadium with his 500mm f/5.6 lens. Obviously for the safety of whomever he was going be sitting next to.
A couple of games later he was on the field with a day pass... it annoyed me since he kept getting in my way but I let it go. He did get jusold (sp?) by a TE doing a pattern out of bounds -- Haven't seen him since.
aram535 wrote:
He did get jusold (sp?) by a TE doing a pattern out of bounds -- Haven't seen him since.
jostled.... or creamed, pancaked, crushed, steam-rolled, blasted, flattened, slammed, annihilated, etc.... Although it does happen to even the trained professionals, it really does illustrate why a non-pro shouldn't have sideline access. We have a lot more experience getting the heck out of the way AND we're insured!
Thanks for your input.