Well I spoke with another moderator and I was told that there were also some complaints about me and the fact that I set up the portfolio for my friend, that led to me being removed.
Now, if there were some complaints about me, who were they from? Other models, other photographers I don't know. Yet, there are also two sides to every story. I wrote back and told them that if there were some complaints about me, why was I not contacted earlier about these "said" complaints? I have had a ton of nice tags on my portfolio from models I've worked with in the past, plus many of these models, I've shot with more than one time, so I don't know where the complaints were coming from.
I will admit that I had a couple of problems with some models that stood me up in the past, but nothing that would escalate into complaints being lodged against me, from my point of view. I did have a problem with one model who didn't like her photos the first time I shot with her and I finally got that situation resolved by shooting her again, so I don't know where these complaints are coming from, unless it is other photographers?
When I asked about a refund, they said they would not give me a refund as I had violated their TOS and therefore didn't have to refund me any money.
I still think the whole thing is a bad situation and that if I am not reinstated, that I should get a refund for money I paid them to offer a service which they have now no longer able to provide me.
Well I spoke with another moderator and I was told that there were also some complaints about me and the fact that I set up the portfolio for my friend, that led to me being removed.
Now, if there were some complaints about me, who were they from? Other models, other photographers I don't know. Yet, there are also two sides to every story. I wrote back and told them that if there were some complaints about me, why was I not contacted earlier about these "said" complaints? I have had a ton of nice tags on my portfolio from models I've worked with in the past, plus many of these models, I've shot with more than one time, so I don't know where the complaints were coming from.
I will admit that I had a couple of problems with some models that stood me up in the past, but nothing that would escalate into complaints being lodged against me, from my point of view. I did have a problem with one model who didn't like her photos the first time I shot with her and I finally got that situation resolved by shooting her again, so I don't know where these complaints are coming from, unless it is other photographers?
When I asked about a refund, they said they would not give me a refund as I had violated their TOS and therefore didn't have to refund me any money.
I still think the whole thing is a bad situation and that if I am not reinstated, that I should get a refund for money I paid them to offer a service which they have now no longer able to provide me.
The best chance you have of getting it back is to have the girl ask for it, not you! If she says you were simply logging into her account to do something as a one time favor to her, they may relent and give her the account back.
I honestly dont know why you even want to deal with MM to begin with. I never said the whole MM was a front for drugs and prostitution, but you would be blind to not see it when its clearly stated (albeit slang) in some of the posts. Besides, 95% of the people on there have no business modeling anyway. Thats the problem with these sites, myspace, facebook, MM, etc. Any girl thinks some guy taking her picture and 10 minutes of photoshop makes them a model. That site is amateur at best.
And if you really want to get a refund, just find out what state they are based out of, and go file small claims. It will cost you less than $100 and you can almost be assured they will settle before you go to court.
what2be wrote:
The best chance you have of getting it back is to have the girl ask for it, not you! If she says you were simply logging into her account to do something as a one time favor to her, they may relent and give her the account back.
I honestly dont know why you even want to deal with MM to begin with. I never said the whole MM was a front for drugs and prostitution, but you would be blind to not see it when its clearly stated (albeit slang) in some of the posts. Besides, 95% of the people on there have no business modeling anyway. Thats the problem with these sites, myspace, facebook, MM, etc. Any girl thinks some guy taking her picture and 10 minutes of photoshop makes them a model. That site is amateur at best.
And if you really want to get a refund, just find out what state they are based out of, and go file small claims. It will cost you less than $100 and you can almost be assured they will settle before you go to court. ...Show more →
Hmmmmm. I think you are reading what you want into these posts. I have read numerous posts and profiles and never have I come away thinking it was some slang for prostitution or drugs. I have read posts on guys asking for sex but it's usually people ripping on those dudes.
And as far as MM being amateur: I have seen photographers on there with talent that would rival anyone on FM. Just like I've seen people on FM who are just starting out. I think most people on MM know there are newbies on there just like there are seasoned pros. I, for one, have gotten many paying clients from MM and I've never been offered drugs. Been offered sex but I was not asked to pay. Is that still prostitution?
*disclaimer* I have never taken anyone up on these offers. My wife reads FM. lol
I will file a claim against them in a small claims court if I can find out where they are headquartered. It does state on their site that there will be no refunds if a member's portfolio is deleted. I just wonder if they post that thinking that someone won't sue them in small claims court?
It seems to me if you read their TOS and rules of etiquette that if you have a complaint against your or you've done something wrong, they can put you in "The Brig". Sort of a "time out" situation. I really don't have any problem with being placed in "time out" for a week or two, since I did set up a portfolio for someone else, even though I didn't know it was against the rules. I have also asked who has made a complaint about me on the site. I seriously doubt they are going to tell me, but as I pointed out to them, there are always two sides to every story.
As for people trashing MM and saying it is full of amateurs, I agree with the above poster. There is some fantastic talent on that site, and their are some newbies as well. But I have been very happy with the models I have worked with on the site. I really don't want to be banned from the site.
I don't know what my next move will be, but the moderators sure seem slow to respond to my e-mails via their "contact a moderator" program.......
There's an old saying that ignorance of the law is no excuse.... it would seem that with MM that also applies to TOS.
To all appearances you broke the rules -- so you get to pay the price.
It's not as if MM is the ONLY source for models, there are other options out there.
Just remember, there are people who have had the same job for twenty years who have twenty years of experience -- and then again, there are people who have one year's experience that they have repeated 20 times..... Chalk it up as THIS year's experience and move on.
I understand that I broke the rules, but for them to go to such drastic measures without even a warning, especially when I have been a loyal and VIP (paid) member for quite some time, seems rather odd to me.
I like the way MM has it site laid out and I have had the most success with this site in terms of working with models and not having many flakes or no-shows.
What other options would you suggest for on-line modeling sites?
Sorry to hear that Jay.
Damn, who's going to leave me comments now??
You work speaks for itself, maybe you should do more advertising for your site. Advertise on MM!!
How much of your business was coming from shooting models?
Jay, when you push, and push hard, and feel strongly that you have been misunderstood/wronged in some way, and still the other side doesn't budge (or engage in the communication process) there comes a time when you have to decide what are the costs (to you) and the (potential) benefits.
To an observer, and assuming that you have the originals of the images you posted, it might be time to fold. A huge amount of energy can be consumed in the process of resolving this kind of dispute—especially when they will not engage.
I wonder what the role of the model you could not contact was in all this? I assume that you have still not been able to contact here to hear what, if anything, she did in the process?
Are there other sites that will do this job for you? Or it is time to start your own? Good luck.
jay,
sorry to hear about this. I like your work a lot. I'm on MM and I can completely understand why you wouldn't want to just create a new account. You'd lose a ton of contact information, messages, tags, etc. I can't believe they just deleted your account with contacting you first. I know there are a lot of models and photographers and people calling themselves photoshop wizards who need to learn what the heck they're doing but like you said there is a lot of talent on the site as well.
I doubt you'd be able to create a new account on there now anyway. Good luck and please let us know how it gets resolved either way.
Greg
You might want to contact a moderator and let them know you plan to possibly take them to small claims court, you never know, they might reinstate you just to avoid that mess. Assuming you haven't already.
Sometimes you gotta just shove it in their face. Though, if you do, you better be ready to see that sort of thing through.
I understand I was busted for what I did. No complaint from me about that. BUT, I did not realize what I had done was wrong and against their TOS. You would at least think that there would have been a warning or a PM from a moderator that doing what I did was not allowed.
As for the comments above about having the model contact the site, that isn't going to happen, nor would that really resolve the issue at all. I can guarantee you that the reason I was reported is that I went into that model's portfolio that I started for her, and told all the photographers who had been "trying" to get a hold of her, that she didn't have control of that portfolio, just yet. So some photographer, more than likely, thought they needed to notify the mods about me being a "manager". And as I've told the main moderator and the site administrator, I did not realize I was breaking a rule, nor would I have done that on purpose, if I had known it was against the rules.
I think their actions were extreme and they over-reacted in a big way.
If any of you are members of MM, there is a portion of the site where it talks about rules and regulations or something to that effect. I read the rules and they have a process of discipline called "being sent to the brig" or something like that. Well I wasn't even given the option of being sent to the "brig" for a week or a couple of weeks for what I did. So to me, it doesn't seem like the moderators are even following their own rules and regulations of the site, when it comes to this issue.
Are there two sets of rules on the site? If I did something wrong, fine, put me in the "brig" for a couple of weeks and I'll take my punishment. But to just up and delete me without any warning whatsoever, seems rather harsh and a knee-jerk reaction.
And I'd still like to address the part where one moderator said that there have been complaints about me on the site. If that is the case, how come no one and mean NO ONE, has ever contacted me about a complaint from another model, another photographer or anyone else that is a member of that site. So why is this all being brought up all at once. Plus, there are two sides to every story and as always, I would think, you are innocent until proven guilty.
I have tried and tried to have a conversation with the head moderator and the site administrator, yet they don't seem to be interested in engaging in a conversation with me any longer. And I have brought up the fact that they don't seem to be following their own rules and regulations and procedures.
If they think I'm going to just give up and go away, that isn't going to happen. I put in a considerable amount of time on that site and had built up a ton of contacts. I also want to restore my good name and reputation on the site and I haven't been allowed to defend myself on any of these complaints.
I know many of you might not see this situation from my point of view and I can respect that, but I do think I have been treated extremely unfair in this entire situation.
Generating an account/portfolio and operating the account for her without her permission or authorization was just deadly wrong, you broke all the rules on every online services I can think about. It's no difference for what you did comparing that you generating an email account with other's identity and communicating with others, you may be sued as for what you did as well, especially for posting "sexy" pictures of the "model" on her portfolio you generated without her authorization, I am not sure if you have MODEL RELEASE CONTRACT when you doing the shooting session with the model....
Unless you can asked you model to contact with MM and lie to them that she asked you to help her to reply those private messages to other photographers due to some reasons she couldn't access the computer or internet etc.. but as you said it will unlikely be happen....
The model is not on your side, you can win no matter what you are going to do...
My suggestion is still SUCK it up, move on,,,
Or, contacting with MM mod and apologizing sincerely and explaining to them again, and asking for forgiveness, you may have a chance to get your account back.
And for photographers who working with those young sexy "models" you really have to have some self controls for what should to do and what shouldn't to do ! Don't mess up between PROFESSIONAL and PERSONAL MATTER....etc...
I asked the model, if she would like me to set up an account for her and she said yes, so I did.
Also, I do have a signed model release from her.
I did not realize that what I did, by setting up the account for her broke all the rules on every on-line service. I did not do it with malice or bad intentions at all. I was just "trying" to help her and it has bit me in the a** in the worst way possible.
I have "attempted" to apologize to the moderators on MM profusely, but they still refuse to answer my CAM thread. I've also pointed out to them that they have never done any RCAM, "Reverse Contact A Moderator", to address any of these "so-called" complaints against me. This is all VERY new information to me.
I made a mistake, I didn't realize what a BIG mistake it was to set up the account for her. I've said that time and time again. But to delete my entire account seems VERY extreme to me.
I wouldn't even object to being put in "time-out" and in "the brig" which I guess is their version of time-out. I am not a trouble maker and am extremely sorry for what I did. I did not do it with any evil intentions whatsoever.
I still hope a resolution can be found for this situation as I really like being a productive member on that site.
If I can't get any resolution, I'm not going to go to small claims court, it isn't worth it.
What other modeling sites would any of you recommend if I don't get reinstated.
I've talked to a number of other photographers and models on MM about this situation and they don't think I have been treated fairly, at all, BTW.
JayDavis wrote:
I asked the model, if she would like me to set up an account for her and she said yes, so I did.
Also, I do have a signed model release from her.
Then it's time you ask her again to do you a favor to contact with MM to give you a clear name.
For someone you had worked with her fro multiple times, and if she even did't want to reply any form of message you send\t to her while you are in trouble b/c trying to help her at the beginning, I am not sure what's going on between you two....
Regarding other model related websites, can't give you any suggestions, sorry for that, there're so many sites over there, not sure which one fits your purpose etc...
I am a MM member as well since 2005, but not as active as 99% of members there I believe, and mostly I treated the MM as a fun thing, I did get quite a few very good personal friends over MM both of models and photographers, and keep in touch with them not through MM.
But not sure why you are so serious about MM? does MM generate lots of businesses for you, just curious..?
She is not going to be involved in this situation, at all.
She doesn't need to be. The whole problem lies in the fact that I set up the portfolio for her and that isn't allowed. I didn't realize that. I didn't do it on purpose or did I try to "skirt the rules". Didn't know I was breaking a rule or I wouldn't have done it in the first place.
Of course she will need to be involved: it seems that you acting on her behalf is what's caused the problem. If she tells the moderators it was all because (for example) she is web-illiterate, and (more importantly) that she is happy with the fact that you set it up for her (even, perhaps, set up at her request) then sanity is likely to prevail.
Otherwise, know when to fold gracefully. Good luck.
Of course she will need to be involved: it seems that you acting on her behalf is what's caused the problem. If she tells the moderators it was all because (for example) she is web-illiterate, and (more importantly) that she is happy with the fact that you set it up for her (even, perhaps, set up at her request) then sanity is likely to prevail.
Otherwise, know when to fold gracefully. Good luck.
Of course she will need to be involved: it seems that you acting on her behalf is what's caused the problem. If she tells the moderators it was all because (for example) she is web-illiterate, and (more importantly) that she is happy with the fact that you set it up for her (even, perhaps, set up at her request) then sanity is likely to prevail.
Otherwise, know when to fold gracefully. Good luck.
Of course she will need to be involved: it seems that you acting on her behalf is what's caused the problem. If she tells the moderators it was all because (for example) she is web-illiterate, and (more importantly) that she is happy with the fact that you set it up for her (even, perhaps, set up at her request) then sanity is likely to prevail.
Otherwise, know when to fold gracefully. Good luck.
I don't know. Yet, there are also two sides to every story. I wrote back and told them that if there were some complaints about me, why was I not contacted earlier about these "said" complaints? I have had a ton of nice tags on my portfolio from models I've worked with in the past, plus many of these models, I've shot with more than one time, so I don't know where the complaints were coming from.
