If you've violated the TOS, then it seems that MM really is just going into "CYA mode".
The fact that you've tried to explain to no avail seems to suggest their approach - much like the military, shoot first, as questions later.
If the problem is restoring your images you've posted on there, surely you have your own copies stored locally right? Why can't you just FTP then en masse back up and move on...
If your issue is the fact that portfolio was deleted, simply re-upload. If your issue is MM's handling of the situation, then vote with your feet and move on. Not worth the legal hassle imho for filing claims these days. people can be asinine and short-sighted. Do you try to change the world or simply adapt and adjust? I gave up changing and just adapt and adjust anymore...
Chris Langer wrote:
If you used your computer they probably saw conflicting IP's and investigated. When they saw you shot images of her and now she had a MM. They thought you were a manager. I do agree they should have gave you a warning and said the reason why. Good luck with this!
Chris
I don't buy that. How many people have fixed IPs other than businesses? People log in to websites from all over the place.
EB-1 wrote:
...
I don't buy that. How many people have fixed IPs other than businesses? People log in to websites from all over the place.
EBH
I don't think the mods at MM monitor by IP address anyway - the community is too large to do that in-depth kind of work. As for people having fixed IP's, it's often as little as a $5 cost per month for the static IP and many people host their own LAMP environments for things like photo galleries, websites, blogs, and much more. (I have one, and while I am not a business per se, I do work in IT so the value for me is probably more than some..)
The fact that I set up the account for the model, which is a BIG no-no according to their TOS. And to be honest with you, I like that part of their site. I don't want to deal with managers and "wanna-be" managers. I want to deal directly with the models themselves, when I am trying to arrange a shoot.
Secondly, I got into an e-mail fight with a model year before last. I shouldn't have engaged in it, my temper got the best of me and I lashed out at her and I shouldn't have. Guilty as charged.
Yet to me the kicker is this. They are just NOW bringing up this e-fight. MM has this Reverse Contact A Moderator feature where if you do something wrong and it is reported, a Mod can contact you to discuss. No mod EVER contacted me about this e-fight. So I just assumed it was between me and her. Wrong. But if they have this RCAM process, how come no mod contacted me about the fact that the model reported the e-fight?
Seems to me that there are two sets of rules for that site. And as I've told the moderators, I'd be willing to take my punishment and be in the "brig" if needed, but I would like my portfolio restored.
I do have all the photos on my hard drives, that isn't the issue. What is the issue is that I've had a great many models work with me from that site and I would like to remain a member in good standing of that site.
I think some jealous photographers who are very petty have also been involved in this who are in the Austin and San Antonio areas, since I also shoot down there a lot, as well.
And let me say this, they do monitor by IP addresses. I tried to start up a new portfolio last week and it was denied, because of my IP address. Guess I could go to a Starbucks or Barnes and Noble and set up a new account at a free wi-fi place if I have to.
Finally, Lauren the model, is not going to get involved. It takes an act of Congress just to get her to contact me after I make initial contact with her to photograph her again. I love her to death, but she is one of the most irresponsible, for a lack of a better word, models I've ever dealt with when it comes to returning phone calls, text messages or e-mails.
I seriously doubt I'm going to be able to get my portfolio restored, but what bugs me more than anything is the fact that I've not even been allowed a "second-chance" and my main crime was setting up that other portfolo. I just did not realize that doing that was such a big "no-no" on their site and that is what got all this mess started.
It is their site. It is their rules. That particular rule is discussed on the forums all the time. When you signed up for her account, that rule was listed with a bold header.
In the end, while you can get angry all you want but you have no recourse. You broke a rule you should have known about. The site makes every effort for people joining to be aware of it.
At this point it seems they have no interest in entering a dialog with you. So, you can sit there an complain about the unfairness of it all, or go out and find a new source of models and keep shooting. The choice is yours.
Thanks for your comments. I truthfully did not see the rule you mention when I signed up the account for the model.
You would at least think they would give a person a second chance? I've explained to them I didn't know that what I had done was against their rules and it certainly wasn't done with malice.
If you know of other sources for models, I'd love to hear about them.
I know many people complain about MM, but to me, over the years, I've found that site to be the most reliable site to contact models and I have enjoyed my time on it very much.
I would hope they will eventually give me another chance. That is all I am asking.
On the other hand, let's take this site for example. There are a few people on this site who come over and start trouble from time to time. People finally get enough of their "mess" that they are banned.
I'm not that type of member on MM. I hardly ever get on the forums and I've had a ton of great tags from the models that I've worked with over there.
So why are they being so difficult in giving me a second chance? Seems to be they are just being too hard-lined for such an innocent mistake.
If allowed back on, I certainly won't make the same mistake again, I can promise you that.
This sounds like the classic e-penis problem. Mongols flexing their moderating muscles online. I have been helping people create their forums online for over 10 years and know exactly this type and I have certainly experienced it myself with numerous other sites.
You would think a common courtesy thing such as sending an email or message with a warning would first be sent, but that is not the case with these types of animals.
I know it is human nature to continue to try to keep working with them in an effort to come to a resolution, but it is an endless battle that is almost never won. You are better off spending your time looking for an established site with humans who do not need to make up for a lack of genitals in the real world.
I had lunch with a friend of mine who has also had issues with them. He had a shot on "one" of his portfolios, notice I said "one" of his portfolios? Exactly, he has three of them, yet they bust me for having more than one? They don't apply the rules the same on the site.
My friend told me he had a shot of a girl that was nude, who was painted completely and her genitalia was showing and they sent him a message about it and told him to remove the photo. And the genitalia was painted !! Yet there are a ton of shots on that site, some have even been voted "Nude of the Day" and yet they show female genitalia and there is no problem with it? Just doesn't make sense.
I agree with you. I think they should have sent an e-mail or a message with a warning first off, but they didn't do that with me. I've pointed that fact out to them many times in this CAM thread, yet they choose to ignore that point that I've made.
I finally got an e-mail from the "head moderator" and he said that I can "try" and ask to re-join in 30 days, but he wasn't going to guarantee that I would be allowed back on. He also said if I attempted to sneak around the system and start a new portfolio, than my regular and deleted portfolio would never be allowed back on the site.
I'm pretty much in agreement with you Flybe, I think many of the mods over there have the problem you have describe in your reply.
I am going to start pursuing other modeling web sites.
Model Brigade is going to be the first one I start paying more attention to. Any others that you or someone else can recommend?
Well I spoke with another moderator and I was told that there were also some complaints about me and the fact that I set up the portfolio for my friend, that led to me being removed.
Now, if there were some complaints about me, who were they from? Other models, other photographers I don't know. Yet, there are also two sides to every story. I wrote back and told them that if there were some complaints about me, why was I not contacted earlier about these "said" complaints? I have had a ton of nice tags on my portfolio from models I've worked with in the past, plus many of these models, I've shot with more than one time, so I don't know where the complaints were coming from.
I will admit that I had a couple of problems with some models that stood me up in the past, but nothing that would escalate into complaints being lodged against me, from my point of view. I did have a problem with one model who didn't like her photos the first time I shot with her and I finally got that situation resolved by shooting her again, so I don't know where these complaints are coming from, unless it is other photographers?
When I asked about a refund, they said they would not give me a refund as I had violated their TOS and therefore didn't have to refund me any money.
I still think the whole thing is a bad situation and that if I am not reinstated, that I should get a refund for money I paid them to offer a service which they have now no longer able to provide me.
Well I suppose they have the right to do this, but I would never operate my site this way (I run a similar but much smaller site). Most sites will warn about a violation of TOS then close or suspend your account if you don't fix it (e.g. marking photo content), but will usually allow you back unless you clearly intended malice. I think that MM is run mostly by volunteers, so that gives it a different feel.
I always refund a customer's money for a shortened term, unless they're doing something that is a blatant disregard for all civil behavior. My business model doesn't rely on being stingy with refunds.
As far as complaints, if they had to do with violating the TOS, then they should just refer to them as additional violations of the TOS, the fact that it was a member not a moderator that noticed doesn't seem relevant. Maybe it's just a smoke screen.
At any rate, there are alternatives to MM.
(By the way, the blog link on your site is broken, thought you'd want to know.)
Chris Langer wrote:
If you used your computer they probably saw conflicting IP's and investigated. When they saw you shot images of her and now she had a MM. They thought you were a manager. I do agree they should have gave you a warning and said the reason why. Good luck with this!
Chris
I wonder if a model & photographer were a husband/wife, or roommates, close friends, or for some other reason (like convenience after each shoot) shared a computer, if they too would have their accounts closed. Seems like the ban isn't on being a manager, but on sharing computers. They have no way to tell whether he set up the account or if she was at the keyboard.
I looked on their "Rules" and "Terms of Service" and only found one reference to said "manager" rule. Can you look the text of the rules you purportedly violated and post them here?
"I will file a claim against them in a small claims court if I can find out where they are headquartered. It does state on their site that there will be no refunds if a member's portfolio is deleted. I just wonder if they post that thinking that someone won't sue them in small claims court?"
As I heard Sponge Bob once say: "Well, good luck with that!"
I don't know. Yet, there are also two sides to every story. I wrote back and told them that if there were some complaints about me, why was I not contacted earlier about these "said" complaints? I have had a ton of nice