Milan Hutera wrote:
So if I don't have a budget for 7D, I should settle for smaller RAW buffer, worse AF, smaller and worse shaped body (damn me, I have large fingers), way slower response time/wf blackout, way slower frame rate, worse ergonomics (the rear wheel IS useful and fast)?
+1. I want faster shooting and better interface/usability than Rebel/xxxD provides, but I can't afford a 7D. Also don't want the weight of a 7D. Don't really want 18mp on a crop sensor either, not so much because of noise but the loss of available apertures. When f8 starts to get soft from diffraction (as I noticed even with the 50d at 15mp), that doesn't leave much flexibility if you're shooting f4 zooms. But looks like I won't have a choice in that since Canon seems committed to jacking the pixels. Hope my 40D lasts awhile.....
grog13 wrote:
Don't really want 18mp on a crop sensor [because of] loss of available apertures. When f8 starts to get soft from diffraction (as I noticed even with the 50d at 15mp), that doesn't leave much flexibility if you're shooting f4 zooms.
Sorry for the OT, but you do not lose available apertures on a higher resolution body. Your lenses still have them and there is nothing preventing you from using them. Assuming equal settings, at a given enlargement/print size the results at f/8 from a 7D are at least equal to f/8 from a 40D.
The amount of diffraction present at any given f-stop is the same between bodies with the same sensor size. While you may be able to notice diffraction effects a bit earlier with a higher resolution body when pixel peeping, the resulting print output will be the same or better than before.
luant16 wrote:
burst @ 6.5 fps, 9 points af all cross type, magnesium body, same megapixel same video features (or prob slightly better)
+1
Burst speed
Better autofocus system
Pentaprism instead of mirror with better magnification
Bigger, stronger, better built body with hopefully better weathersealing
Of course there's room for a 60D. They will not leave that huge pricing gap alone. If you think that's "crowding" go look at what Sony offers for under $1000.
I'm disappointed about the lack of an xxD body though. I do hope they are going to differentiate it by going the K7 route in terms of smaller and more compact. I don't like the rumors of an articulating LCD...
Not that my opinion matters but, I would hate to think Canon is dumb enough to put all their pro-sumer APS-C format eggs in one basket with the 7D. I think the xxD line needs to remain, even if the priority shifts downward slightly toward being a direct competitor to the Nikon D90 or its successor rather than the D300/D300s spawned the 7D.
I think there is still a market where people want more speed, better AF and a larger body than what is offered by the Rebel line but can't quite justify the cost of a 7D. It would have been nice to see further development of the 12mp sensor they used in the XSi. While I like my 7D, I'd rather have had a bigger leap in high ISO performance than such a huge leap in resolution versus my old 40D.
The problem for the 550D is it's still a very small camera with poorly designed grip and no top lcd. Although the specs are awesome I still see plenty of room for a 60D class camera for body size alone, let alone improved specs in a number of areas. Unless the price of the 7D is dropped significantly I still believe something else is needed.
I've thought about getting a 500D as backup for my 5D2, but I keep having the same nightmare. I reach for my backup camera, look at the controls and go blank, just too many controls jostling for my attention, messy. What will keep the xxD series going is a lower price that the 7D (perhaps justified by less advanced autofocus and lower framerate) but better ergonomics than the Rebels and a similar handling experience/menu structure to the 5D2 etc.
Basically the xxD is better built for rugged use and has the thumbwheel for fast, easy control. The back of the Rebel cameras has too many buttons for easy use, at least in my mind. Perhaps I am retarded but I prefer settings I don't use often buried away in the menus where I don't have to think about them.
No rear sync
High-strength 'engineering plastic' instead of metal body
No pc-port
No lcd dedicated to settings
No thumb wheel
Cannot control FEC, HSS, Rear, or other custom functions of hotshoe flashes from the body
Cannot control FEC, HSS, Rear, or other custom functions of off camera flashes when using ST-E2
Pentamirror instead of pentaprism
SD instead of CF
no custom function bank on the dial
Cross type focus point only on center instead of on all nine points
1/4000 vs 1/8000 shutter
noisier shutter
While its minor, IIRC all of the XXD lines were always announced and came out before their XXXD counterparts. The 10D before the Rebel (300D), 20D before XT (350D), 30D before XTi, 40D before XSi, 50D before T1i. But the T2i jumped the gun or rather the 7D took the thunder away from 60D. Of course a variety of things could be why this happened, more and better competition on the low end so Canon had to respond, a new line like the 7D, etc. I do certainly hope there is a 60D still, just making a point about old trends for the last half a decade or so.
David B - Its funny that you say that. Another person on the T2i thread said they really liked that fact that everything was done on a nice sized, color LCD and the buttons didn't confuse them, but made it easier than going through the dial. To each their own. I personally haven't used anything above a Rebel, so can't and won't say anything else on the matter, I just think its funny reading these other posts from people that have used both.
Dudewithoutape wrote:
David B - Its funny that you say that. Another person on the T2i thread said they really liked that fact that everything was done on a nice sized, color LCD and the buttons didn't confuse them, but made it easier than going through the dial. To each their own. I personally haven't used anything above a Rebel, so can't and won't say anything else on the matter, I just think its funny reading these other posts from people that have used both.
I saw that, I think they meant all the controls are on the back more so than wheels. more direct access w/o having to look on the top of the camera. To which I sort of agree with. I'd rather have all the info in the back if I have to pull away from the VF. And the backlight is annoyingly uncustomizable.
however, if canon dropped the wheels, I would instantly switch to nikon, or pentax, heh.
So seeing where the T2i and 7D sit, and how the 50D sits awkwardly between them (being out-speced in most areas by the T2i), one can only assume that a 60D is coming real soon (Can't imagine too many 50Ds will be selling in the meantime)
Burst speed
Better autofocus system
Pentaprism instead of mirror with better magnification
Bigger, stronger, better built body with hopefully better weathersealing
Not sure what else...
Spec-wise, that 550 surprised the heck out of me!
Agreed, I don't need the AF of the 7D and its not worth the extra money to me, but a 60D would be a nice upgrade to my 40D.
David Baldwin wrote:
I've thought about getting a 500D as backup for my 5D2, but I keep having the same nightmare. I reach for my backup camera, look at the controls and go blank, just too many controls jostling for my attention, messy. What will keep the xxD series going is a lower price that the 7D (perhaps justified by less advanced autofocus and lower framerate) but better ergonomics than the Rebels and a similar handling experience/menu structure to the 5D2 etc.
Basically the xxD is better built for rugged use and has the thumbwheel for fast, easy control. The back of the Rebel cameras has too many buttons for easy use, at least in my mind. Perhaps I am retarded but I prefer settings I don't use often buried away in the menus where I don't have to think about them....Show more →
Exactly the way I think. The only draw to the 500D to me is the small size for travel. Otherwise, I'd rather have an XXD over an XXXD.
No, the line is not finished... if only because the XXD line has a metal body and the Rebel a plastic body. People feel more professional shooting a metal consumer body.
Controls, top-deck readout and VF are actually important differentiators...
GC Montgomery wrote:
Not that my opinion matters but, I would hate to think Canon is dumb enough to put all their pro-sumer APS-C format eggs in one basket with the 7D. I think the xxD line needs to remain, even if the priority shifts downward slightly toward being a direct competitor to the Nikon D90 or its successor rather than the D300/D300s spawned the 7D.
I think there is still a market where people want more speed, better AF and a larger body than what is offered by the Rebel line but can't quite justify the cost of a 7D. It would have been nice to see further development of the 12mp sensor they used in the XSi. While I like my 7D, I'd rather have had a bigger leap in high ISO performance than such a huge leap in resolution versus my old 40D....Show more →
Umm, Canon put all of it's eggs in 1 pro-sumer APS-C basket with the D30, D60, 10D, 20D, 30D, 40D, 50D (You get the picture). The 7D is probably the eventual replacement of the 50D. Just as the XXD prices eventually came down after their initial introductions, so then probably the 7D prices come down to fill the gap between it and the Rebel lines.
Of course there's room for a 60D. They will not leave that huge pricing gap alone. If you think that's "crowding" go look at what Sony offers for under $1000.
Canon loves price gaps.
For FF:
Below the price of the 5DII = ZERO cameras
Between 5DII and 1DsIII/Iv = ZERO cameras
omarlyn wrote:
There's alot of room still for an xxD model line. Car manufacturers don't produce three models (economy, mid-class, & luxury) and call it quits and Casio manufactures over 300 wrist watches...the point is there is room for 4, 5, even 6 concurrent DSLR models with different ergonomics, features, & pricing.
Looks like the lines in the auto industry is pretty general now a days. Same with Canon.
You do realize that this list is simple to the point that the whole statement is rediculous.
First of all, Toyota makes what, 16 models?
Second if you look at the available trim versions of the three you listed you will find there are 5 corollas, 5 camrys and 3 avalons. Each of which have 5 or more sub trim levels. You can literally pick from over 100 individual price points with unique feature sets.
I personally haven't used anything above a Rebel, so can't and won't say anything else on the matter, I just think its funny reading these other posts from people that have used both. 