ZE/ZF/ZM Images (Official Thread!)
p.327 #1ZE/ZF/ZM Images (Official Thread!)
Yep, same thing with the 7D. And the M9 with the ZM lenses. One interesting side note is that Leica recently did some adjustments to my sensor on the M9 and as a result two of my Leica lenses are actually dead on optical infinity at the mechanical stop while two still go slightly beyond. The ZM lenses still go a bit beyond infinity. They only had my camera for adjustment, but it is popular to send in camera + lenses for adjustment so that everything is calibrated to the same reference. The disadvantage of that is of course that the calibration of the lenses will from then be off for any other body and any new lenses you add may need calibration.
So yes, it can be as you say - that the sensor alignment on the cameras varies to such a degree that they need to put the mechanical infinity beyond the optical infinity, just to be sure.
For my own part I have not found it to be much of a problem on Canon as you have live view. With the M9 it's much trickier though and you need to be 100% sure that the rangefinder on the camera is correctly calibrated and you can only be certain that you've nailed focus after you look at the images on the computer (the M9's image preview function is useless for focus checks as it can't show the pixels at 100%).
So yes, it can be as you say - that the sensor alignment on the cameras varies to such a degree that they need to put the mechanical infinity beyond the optical infinity, just to be sure.
For my own part I have not found it to be much of a problem on Canon as you have live view. With the M9 it's much trickier though and you need to be 100% sure that the rangefinder on the camera is correctly calibrated and you can only be certain that you've nailed focus after you look at the images on the computer (the M9's image preview function is useless for focus checks as it can't show the pixels at 100%).
Apr 22, 2011 at 06:27 AM
p.327 #2ZE/ZF/ZM Images (Official Thread!)
All my zeiss lenses go slightly past infinity too.
Like Luka, I also believe this is by design. In the past I've read numerous stories about the possibility of the temperature affecting the mechanical infinity stop of a lens.
If this is really true? I don't know.
It doesn't really bother me. When you want infinity: just turn the focus ring all the way to the infinity stop and then pull it back slightly. You get used to it.
A bit offtopic:
Why do these kind of threads full of hate pop up so often?
I would understand if people were constantly bragging about their zeiss/leica lenses on that canon part of the forum, but I think that's not the case.
link
Edited on Apr 22, 2011 at 06:54 AM · View previous versions
Like Luka, I also believe this is by design. In the past I've read numerous stories about the possibility of the temperature affecting the mechanical infinity stop of a lens.
If this is really true? I don't know.
It doesn't really bother me. When you want infinity: just turn the focus ring all the way to the infinity stop and then pull it back slightly. You get used to it.
A bit offtopic:
Why do these kind of threads full of hate pop up so often?
I would understand if people were constantly bragging about their zeiss/leica lenses on that canon part of the forum, but I think that's not the case.
link
Edited on Apr 22, 2011 at 06:54 AM · View previous versions
Apr 22, 2011 at 06:51 AM
p.327 #3ZE/ZF/ZM Images (Official Thread!)
This is what Zeiss say about the 35mm lens and the infinity stop:
"From the lens side in a lens of that focal length [35mm] and without critical glass* types a focus shift due to temperature has not be expected. It is much more important to have a reliable infinity stop, because in practical photography nobody could focus to infinity good enough with a wide angle"
"From the lens side in a lens of that focal length [35mm] and without critical glass* types a focus shift due to temperature has not be expected. It is much more important to have a reliable infinity stop, because in practical photography nobody could focus to infinity good enough with a wide angle"
Apr 22, 2011 at 06:53 AM
p.327 #4ZE/ZF/ZM Images (Official Thread!)
Simply, Jochen, because DxO wirte this sort of stuff; Also, others "dont"t know better", either becuse they have never used a Zeiss lens, or can't see any difference anyhow. Don't let it bother you; It is their loss, not ours...
Apr 22, 2011 at 07:08 AM
p.327 #5ZE/ZF/ZM Images (Official Thread!)
cputeq wrote:
I actually have a subscription to Lloyd's but I wasn't aware he had talked about past-infinity, though I had read his issues with slight mount / lens misalignment in ZF and ZE mounts.
Here is the link to lloyd's page:
http://diglloyd.com/prem/prot/ZF/publish/35Distagon-infinity-focus.html
I actually have a subscription to Lloyd's but I wasn't aware he had talked about past-infinity, though I had read his issues with slight mount / lens misalignment in ZF and ZE mounts.
Here is the link to lloyd's page:
http://diglloyd.com/prem/prot/ZF/publish/35Distagon-infinity-focus.html
Apr 22, 2011 at 07:26 AM
p.327 #6ZE/ZF/ZM Images (Official Thread!)
philber wrote:
Simply, Jochen, because DxO wirte this sort of stuff; Also, others "dont"t know better", either becuse they have never used a Zeiss lens, or can't see any difference anyhow. Don't let it bother you; It is their loss, not ours...
I'm not really familiar with DxO. Sounds like I better keep it that way hehe.
It doesn't bother me at all luckily. I find that narrow-minded "it's all about sharpness"- attitude quite amusing.
Simply, Jochen, because DxO wirte this sort of stuff; Also, others "dont"t know better", either becuse they have never used a Zeiss lens, or can't see any difference anyhow. Don't let it bother you; It is their loss, not ours...
I'm not really familiar with DxO. Sounds like I better keep it that way hehe.
It doesn't bother me at all luckily. I find that narrow-minded "it's all about sharpness"- attitude quite amusing.
Apr 22, 2011 at 07:28 AM
p.327 #7ZE/ZF/ZM Images (Official Thread!)
Lars Johnsson wrote:
This is what Zeiss say about the 35mm lens and the infinity stop:
"From the lens side in a lens of that focal length [35mm] and without critical glass* types a focus shift due to temperature has not be expected. It is much more important to have a reliable infinity stop, because in practical photography nobody could focus to infinity good enough with a wide angle"
In the tech sheet of the Contax VS100-300 this is mentioned:
"As special types of glass with a somewhat higher temperature dependence have been used, a fixed infinity stop has been dispensed with. This guarantees perfect adjustment even in extreme temperatures."
I find it interesting that it's the glass that is said to be temperature dependant and not the metal barrel. I don't know anything about temperature dependant properties of glasses...
This is what Zeiss say about the 35mm lens and the infinity stop:
"From the lens side in a lens of that focal length [35mm] and without critical glass* types a focus shift due to temperature has not be expected. It is much more important to have a reliable infinity stop, because in practical photography nobody could focus to infinity good enough with a wide angle"
In the tech sheet of the Contax VS100-300 this is mentioned:
"As special types of glass with a somewhat higher temperature dependence have been used, a fixed infinity stop has been dispensed with. This guarantees perfect adjustment even in extreme temperatures."
I find it interesting that it's the glass that is said to be temperature dependant and not the metal barrel. I don't know anything about temperature dependant properties of glasses...
Apr 22, 2011 at 10:48 AM
p.327 #8ZE/ZF/ZM Images (Official Thread!)
Apochromatic glass can be temperature sensitive and require a variable infinity focus because of that.
The Zeiss ZF lenses are not “APO” and they can have an accurate infinity stop.
The Zeiss ZF lenses are not “APO” and they can have an accurate infinity stop.
Apr 22, 2011 at 11:28 AM
p.327 #9ZE/ZF/ZM Images (Official Thread!)
One more 50P/50MP comparison shot which I just stumbled upon. I missed it the first time, because I didn't think it was that great a shot, but in this case, the extra depth of field of the 50MP is just perfect, making the whole subject tree sharp, and then leaving the background alone, whereas the 50P is not quite there. It is a bit hard to see in the smaller versions, so for a change I have not done any sharpening on the large versions, just exposure equalization, and the +1-click Contrast/Vibrance on the 50P shot to make it catch up with the 50MP in look a bit.
This is the shot:
And here are the two 1800x1200 shots:
50P @ f/2
50MP @ f/2
Anyone into magical, ethereal looks, or the Leica glow and so on, will probably prefer the 50P shot, but look at how much sharper the 50MP shot is (focused somewhere in the middle of the tree, i.e. the branches sticking out on the left), and what a huge difference it makes near the top of the tree. One more stop on the 50P would start to make up ground, but the 50MP was just made for this kind of shot, with a subject of a certain depth, and then a background somewhat removed. It definitely has its uses, and isolating trees is one.
This is the shot:
And here are the two 1800x1200 shots:
50P @ f/2
50MP @ f/2
Anyone into magical, ethereal looks, or the Leica glow and so on, will probably prefer the 50P shot, but look at how much sharper the 50MP shot is (focused somewhere in the middle of the tree, i.e. the branches sticking out on the left), and what a huge difference it makes near the top of the tree. One more stop on the 50P would start to make up ground, but the 50MP was just made for this kind of shot, with a subject of a certain depth, and then a background somewhat removed. It definitely has its uses, and isolating trees is one.
Apr 22, 2011 at 03:01 PM
p.327 #10ZE/ZF/ZM Images (Official Thread!)
Went on a long walk through a local flower garden today. The aromas were awesome, and I must say I'm in love with the 35/2 - perfect amount of vignetting for me, lots of fun to shoot - my 85 f/1.8 and 24-105 barely got any play time. I basically had to use faithful on most shots to keep the color from running away from me and I don't think I touched the clarity or sharpness sliders once
The entire 73-shot set:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/jl_smith/sets/72157626430386277/
Lots of them are your typical flower shots, and I really wish I had the 100ZE, but here are some other samples:
1) Garden Reflections
2) Roses in Sky
3) Bench and Red
4) Row of petals
The entire 73-shot set:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/jl_smith/sets/72157626430386277/
Lots of them are your typical flower shots, and I really wish I had the 100ZE, but here are some other samples:
1) Garden Reflections
2) Roses in Sky
3) Bench and Red
4) Row of petals
Apr 22, 2011 at 04:13 PM
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p.327 #11ZE/ZF/ZM Images (Official Thread!)
cputeq wrote:
Re: Fracas and Philber
Okay, thanks much for chiming in
I actually have a subscription to Lloyd's but I wasn't aware he had talked about past-infinity, though I had read his issues with slight mount / lens misalignment in ZF and ZE mounts.
If this is fairly typical, though, that's fine and I've almost pretty much figured out by memory where infinity is. I asked Zeiss last night about it anyways, so I'm interested in hearing what they say.
Lloyd Chamber actually write in his Guide to Zeiss ZF/ZE lenses that those lenses has have an accurate infinity stop.
Re: Fracas and Philber
Okay, thanks much for chiming in
I actually have a subscription to Lloyd's but I wasn't aware he had talked about past-infinity, though I had read his issues with slight mount / lens misalignment in ZF and ZE mounts.
If this is fairly typical, though, that's fine and I've almost pretty much figured out by memory where infinity is. I asked Zeiss last night about it anyways, so I'm interested in hearing what they say.
Lloyd Chamber actually write in his Guide to Zeiss ZF/ZE lenses that those lenses has have an accurate infinity stop.
Apr 22, 2011 at 11:26 PM
p.327 #12ZE/ZF/ZM Images (Official Thread!)
carstenw wrote:
and the +1-click Contrast/Vibrance on the 50P shot to make it catch up with the 50MP in look a bit.
... the 50MP was just made for this kind of shot, with a subject of a certain depth, and then a background somewhat removed. It definitely has its uses, and isolating trees is one.
I like the MP50's rendering better for nature shots in general, although I would not have been able to pin it down like you do. I was just judging from the samples on this thread. For other things the 50 P might be giving the more interesting results in some cases, like your street/car shots. Thanks for posting your comparison!
and the +1-click Contrast/Vibrance on the 50P shot to make it catch up with the 50MP in look a bit.
... the 50MP was just made for this kind of shot, with a subject of a certain depth, and then a background somewhat removed. It definitely has its uses, and isolating trees is one.
I like the MP50's rendering better for nature shots in general, although I would not have been able to pin it down like you do. I was just judging from the samples on this thread. For other things the 50 P might be giving the more interesting results in some cases, like your street/car shots. Thanks for posting your comparison!
Apr 23, 2011 at 12:26 AM
p.327 #13ZE/ZF/ZM Images (Official Thread!)
rji2goleez, nice series.
Lars, excellent colors.
cputeq, love your 4th image. Very nice colors.
Some ZE21 shots -
Lars, excellent colors.
cputeq, love your 4th image. Very nice colors.
Some ZE21 shots -
Apr 23, 2011 at 01:30 AM
p.327 #14ZE/ZF/ZM Images (Official Thread!)
Lars Johnsson wrote:
Lloyd Chamber actually write in his Guide to Zeiss ZF/ZE lenses that those lenses has have an accurate infinity stop.
Where does he write that? It's clearly not the case - not for ZE/ZF lenses and not for older Zeiss lenses either.
Lloyd Chamber actually write in his Guide to Zeiss ZF/ZE lenses that those lenses has have an accurate infinity stop.
Where does he write that? It's clearly not the case - not for ZE/ZF lenses and not for older Zeiss lenses either.
Apr 23, 2011 at 02:08 AM
p.327 #15ZE/ZF/ZM Images (Official Thread!)
Old post warning (3 Aug, 2010):
Samuli Vahonen wrote:
I have considered all of them, 2/200 has horrible bokeh (quality, not quantity), 2.8/300 is too heavy and 4/300 ain't that good. From current selection I think the most interesting lens is medium format supercromat 5.6/250; would be enough fast for me but the lack of T* coating I'm afraid caused non-Zeiss like look to images - of course price is little too much as well.
Have you considered the Hasselblad F/FE 250/4? I have this lens, but never thought of trying it on my Nikon. I even have a Hasselblad-Nikon adapter, Fotodiox Pro, I believe. I should try it next time I go out. The regular Hasselblad 180/4 might also be a good choice.
Samuli Vahonen wrote:
denoir wrote
There is of course the Contax Zeiss 200/2 Aposonnar.. or the 300/2.8 APO Tele Tessar.. but both are very heavy, rare and expensive.. The Contax Zeiss 300/4 is relatively cheap but from what I understand not very good...Have you considered the Hasselblad F/FE 250/4? I have this lens, but never thought of trying it on my Nikon. I even have a Hasselblad-Nikon adapter, Fotodiox Pro, I believe. I should try it next time I go out. The regular Hasselblad 180/4 might also be a good choice.
Apr 23, 2011 at 04:55 AM
p.327 #16ZE/ZF/ZM Images (Official Thread!)
denoir wrote:
Where does he write that? It's clearly not the case - not for ZE/ZF lenses and not for older Zeiss lenses either.
In his Introduction (Guide to Zeiss ZF/ZE lenses)
""The ZF lenses are not “APO” and as a consequence they can and do have an accurate infinity stop. "
(This is about the 35/2 lens)
""From the lens side in a lens of that focal length [35mm] and without critical glass* types a focus shift due to temperature has not be expected. It is much more important to have a reliable infinity stop, because in practical photography nobody could focus to infinity good enough with a wide angle.""
""I’m told by Zeiss that each and every lens is carefully checked for infinity focus before leaving the factory, so the mechanical infinity stop should be very accurate.""
Lars Johnsson wrote
Lloyd Chamber actually write in his Guide to Zeiss ZF/ZE lenses that those lenses has have an accurate infinity stop.In his Introduction (Guide to Zeiss ZF/ZE lenses)
""The ZF lenses are not “APO” and as a consequence they can and do have an accurate infinity stop. "
(This is about the 35/2 lens)
""From the lens side in a lens of that focal length [35mm] and without critical glass* types a focus shift due to temperature has not be expected. It is much more important to have a reliable infinity stop, because in practical photography nobody could focus to infinity good enough with a wide angle.""
""I’m told by Zeiss that each and every lens is carefully checked for infinity focus before leaving the factory, so the mechanical infinity stop should be very accurate.""
Apr 23, 2011 at 06:20 AM
p.327 #17ZE/ZF/ZM Images (Official Thread!)
steveu wrote:
Nice image Lars, beautiful colours, I feel like grabbing one of those middle ones.
Steve
Thank you Steve
And thanks prosep. Really like your last shot with the sky
Nice image Lars, beautiful colours, I feel like grabbing one of those middle ones.
Steve
Thank you Steve
And thanks prosep. Really like your last shot with the sky
Apr 23, 2011 at 06:27 AM
p.327 #18ZE/ZF/ZM Images (Official Thread!)
That last one is very nice procep.
Carsten, I agree that for those kind of shots the MP is much nicer than the Planar.
Here's one that's similar:
Few more with the 50MP again:
Carsten, I agree that for those kind of shots the MP is much nicer than the Planar.
Here's one that's similar:
Few more with the 50MP again:
Apr 23, 2011 at 07:41 AM
p.327 #19ZE/ZF/ZM Images (Official Thread!)
I really like like your last two shots, Jochen! Both are so rich in mood and atmosphere...
Apr 23, 2011 at 08:45 AM
p.327 #20ZE/ZF/ZM Images (Official Thread!)
philber wrote:
I really like like your last two shots, Jochen! Both are so rich in mood and atmosphere...
I'd second that!
I really like like your last two shots, Jochen! Both are so rich in mood and atmosphere...
I'd second that!
Apr 23, 2011 at 10:05 AM