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Archive 2009 · Pentax plans

  
 
Mr.Lindy
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p.2 #1 · Pentax plans


Here's a link to most recent Hoya press release/interview in Japan in Japanese language that was then translated into English by a pentax enthusiast, & not a Hoya employee. Hoya did not provide an English translation so its likely another piece of evidence 645D is a Japan marketplace only camera, beyond the fact that Pentax USA said no 645D will be offered in USA:


http://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/860104-post46.html




Dec 31, 2009 at 09:45 AM
Lotusm50
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p.2 #2 · Pentax plans


Mr.Lindy wrote:
Here's a link to most recent Hoya press release/interview in Japan in Japanese language that was then translated into English by a pentax enthusiast, & not a Hoya employee. Hoya did not provide an English translation so its likely another piece of evidence 645D is a Japan marketplace only camera, beyond the fact that Pentax USA said no 645D will be offered in USA:



But it will certainly find its way the the USA through ebaY.




Dec 31, 2009 at 09:52 AM
Yakim Peled
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p.2 #3 · Pentax plans


Mr.Lindy wrote:
Here's a link to most recent Hoya press release/interview in Japan in Japanese language that was then translated into English by a pentax enthusiast, & not a Hoya employee. Hoya did not provide an English translation so its likely another piece of evidence 645D is a Japan marketplace only camera, beyond the fact that Pentax USA said no 645D will be offered in USA:

http://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/860104-post46.html



That link looks familiar.

Happy shooting,
Yakim.




Dec 31, 2009 at 09:53 AM
Tariq Gibran
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p.2 #4 · Pentax plans


Funny! It's only the link that started the whole thread!

If the Pentax 645 digital creates enough buzz/turns out to be popular, you can bet it will find it's way to the US market.



Dec 31, 2009 at 09:57 AM
Mr.Lindy
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p.2 #5 · Pentax plans


Ha!

Heres an additional link poking fun at the 4+ years missing to marketplace 645D:


http://theonlinephotographer.typepad.com/the_online_photographer/2009/03/impress-watch-this.html

and from link below, that you started this thread with mean? :


" The vice president of HOYA PENTAX Imaging division and the developing section manager, Toshiyuki Kitazawa mentioned 2009 PENTAX products and the flag ship camera which could be upcoming next year or later.
(interviewer; Masakazu Honda, DC Watch)"

What does "upcoming next year or later" mean 2010, 2011 or ?



Anyways, the link inside TOP's link has numerous 645D camera images for eager buyers to consider:


http://dc.watch.impress.co.jp/cda/other/2009/03/26/10547.html






Yakim Peled wrote:
That link looks familiar.

Happy shooting,
Yakim.





Dec 31, 2009 at 10:30 AM
Tariq Gibran
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p.2 #6 · Pentax plans


"Now, we are developing it. I can't mention the accurate timeline when it will hit the market, but it will be next year."

Seems pretty clear it will be 2010



Dec 31, 2009 at 11:15 AM
c.d.embrey
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p.2 #7 · Pentax plans


From PDN "The goal is probably PMA," Bunnel told PDN Gear Guide. "Though I can't say that for certain. Right now, we're just saying Spring 2010."

Read the whole story here http://www.pdngearguide.com/gearguide/content_display/news/e3i0d52172227325f289ca2b6506ecc9ee4



Dec 31, 2009 at 02:42 PM
Mr.Lindy
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p.2 #8 · Pentax plans


Here's a link to many revealing images of the early 2008 model Pentax 645D.

http://www.digitalcamera.jp/html/HotNews/image/2008-03/07/p645d/


and a link to 2005 models 645D.

http://www.letsgodigital.org/html/review/pentax/medium_format/645_camera.html


and another link to March 2005 18mp 645D.

http://www.dpreview.com/news/0503/05031502pentax645digital.asp


and a link to September 2006 model 645D

http://www.pentax.co.jp/english/news/2006/200646.html


and the Japanese language owners manual leak in November 2009 for 2010 model 645D.

http://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/825882-post1.html



and to round out the links, the March 2009 notice that both 645 and 6X7 film cameras are discontinued in their last market, Japan.

http://theonlinephotographer.typepad.com/the_online_photographer/2009/03/curtain-falls-on-67ii-and-645nii.html



Jan 01, 2010 at 11:38 AM
Yakim Peled
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p.2 #9 · Pentax plans


Indecisive to say the least.

Happy shooting,
Yakim.





Jan 03, 2010 at 02:57 AM
Mr.Lindy
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p.2 #10 · Pentax plans


I'd say 50-50 chance 645D 39mp 2010 model will become available for sale in Japan. Having owned and used Pentax film and then digital gear since 2002 the recurring theme of showing off a 645D under glass and stating its ready to launch has happened almost every year since 2005. As time goes by the evolving 645D design gets further refined and megapixels increased. Thesedays the current 645D shares features the Pentax K-7 has. Weather seals, shake reduction, refined built in grip.

One thing with K Mount system is most of pentax lenses now offshored & made in VietNam no longer have aperture selector rings at lensmount likely due to cost cutting. As Pentax no longer has those skilled Japanese workers in those closed down Japan Pentax plants I think its more challenging for Hoya-Pentax to simply remake old designed 645D glass. If I recall correctly isn't there a european union ban on new old stock Pentax 645 and 6X7 glass being sold the past few years due to lead content in glass? Those formulas need to change to get the lead out.

If 645D fails to happen in 2010, then 2011 may see Kodak 50mp sensor installed instead, or not. Hoya could officially and publically shut 645D concept down again. Thesedays 645D is described as both a system priced for budget oriented shooter or high end pro. One Million Yen price target is a recuring spec. Thesedays $11,000 is more than any Canon or Nikon full frame dslr, all of which boast more than 1 frame per second capture and both brands that have repair networks around the globe to support their pro systems and array of glass choices including third party.

Heres some great info on the Kodak 50mp that already resides in Hassy 50mp Medium Format platform:

http://www.eeproductcenter.com/passives/brief/showArticle.jhtml?articleID=208808672

And the $25,000 Hassy this $3,500 2008 price 50mp Kodak resides in:

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/644448-REG/Hasselblad_70380542_H3DII_50_Digital_SLR_Camera.html


I just realized the Hassy - Kodak 50mp sensor comparision may not make sense to readers. All the Pentax 645D Vaporware Dslrs have been outfitted with Kodak CCD Sensors. So its logical that if the 39mp fails to reach market then the 50mp is next.

Here's the 18mp Kodak announcement for the 18mp Pentax 645D vaporware dslr from March 17th 2005:

http://www.digitalcamerainfo.com/content/Kodak-Announces-18-Megapixel-Image-Sensor-for-Pentax-645.htm



Jan 03, 2010 at 09:49 PM
pingflood
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p.2 #11 · Pentax plans


I wonder if it'll be released before or after Duke Nukem Forever.


Jan 05, 2010 at 08:53 AM
HerbChong
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p.2 #12 · Pentax plans


that's exactly the point. the cost of the camera components is high enough that even at $10K, they would be barely breaking even. if making money or staying in business isn't what matters most, then why not pay people to take them?

Herb...

Specularist wrote:
The issue will be whether Pentax can make enough money selling "affordable" medium-format cameras to stay in business. If they convince us that they're not going to go under in the next few years, they're more likely to get people to invest in an expensive camera system.




Jan 05, 2010 at 04:06 PM
mawz
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p.2 #13 · Pentax plans


HerbChong wrote:
that's exactly the point. the cost of the camera components is high enough that even at $10K, they would be barely breaking even. if making money or staying in business isn't what matters most, then why not pay people to take them?

Herb...


Pentax does have significantly lower development costs than their competition since so much of the basic systems are derived from the K mount cameras. A lot of the cost of MF digital is simply amortizing the development costs of the body systems across very few sales (a couple thousand a year at most), Pentax can amortize metering, AF and image processing systems across a few hundred thousand sales a year as these systems are also in the K-7 and K-x. It's the same thing that allowed them to sell the relatively complex 645NII for such a low cost compared to the competition when it was current.

I suspect Pentax's break-even point on the 645D is a fair bit lower than Mamiya/PhaseOne's or Hasselblad's because of this. It still ain't gonna be cheap though.



Jan 05, 2010 at 05:00 PM
Jorgen Udvang
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p.2 #14 · Pentax plans


HerbChong wrote:
that's exactly the point. the cost of the camera components is high enough that even at $10K, they would be barely breaking even. if making money or staying in business isn't what matters most, then why not pay people to take them?

Herb...



People used to say that about FF as well. Then Sony came along, and now the price is $2,000. With labour cost in Vietnam probably being around 10-20% of that in Japan, and development costs written off over several years, the only things that are more expensive on a 645 than a K-7 are the sensor and the raw materials (plastic and assorted metals). We don't know what kind of deal Pentax have gotten on the sensor, but it should be rather obvious than any manufacturer of MF sensors would be extremely happy if a new customer came in the door, willing to buy a few thousand units.



Jan 05, 2010 at 06:58 PM
Mr.Lindy
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p.2 #15 · Pentax plans


Pentax Corporation got bought out.
Pentax is Hoya's only division that looses money.
Whatever the R&D costs on 645D were, does it matter in 2010?
Hoya owns Pentax now and they've not seen a profit from their investment.


http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601110&sid=aRJv.HxndPMY


Text is from above link

>"

Oct. 27 (Bloomberg) -- Hoya Corp., the Japanese lens maker that bought Pentax Corp. for about $1 billion, is prepared to make a similar-sized acquisition to expand its health-care unit.

“We will do some M&As,” Chief Operating Officer Hiroshi Hamada said in an interview at the company’s Tokyo headquarters on Oct. 23. Hoya may target assets as large as Pentax or pursue smaller overseas venture-capital firms, he said.

An acquisition of a health-care business would help President Hiroshi Suzuki expand the company’s most-profitable division, and build on a strategy that led to the 2007 purchase of endoscope maker Pentax. Hoya is also seeking to partner a consumer-electronics company such as Samsung Electronics Co. to compete with larger rivals in the camera market, Hamada said.

“Hoya is a little weak in basic technologies, so it makes sense they’d consider buying a business in order to save development time,” said Mitsuhiro Osawa, an analyst at Ichiyoshi Research Institute Inc. in Tokyo, adding that an acquisition could also help expand distribution channels for medical equipment. “How many doctors do they have connections with? You can’t just build a network overnight.”

Hoya, Japan’s largest maker of optical glass, fell 1 percent to close at 1,975 yen in Tokyo trading, compared with a 1.5 percent decline by the benchmark Nikkei 225 Stock Average. The company’s shares have risen 28 percent this year.

Hamada, 50, formerly president of Dell Inc.’s Japan unit, took over day-to-day operations at Pentax, Japan’s oldest maker of single-lens reflex cameras, in April 2008 and oversaw the closure of the company’s last domestic digital-camera factory.

Partnership For Pentax

The Pentax division will have to build a partnership in order to compete with larger rivals in the digital-camera market, Hamada said. Pentax supplies Samsung with single-lens-reflex cameras for sale under the South Korean company’s brand.

“I don’t know whether we’ll go with Samsung or somebody else, but I can say that we’ll have a deeper relationship with some electronics guys,” Hamada said. “There will be consolidation in the camera business and a small player like us will be like a small boat on a rough sea. But let me be clear: we will not shut down this business.”

Pentax’s sales of 24.6 billion yen ($267 million) in the first quarter were one tenth the 246 billion yen in camera revenue at Canon Inc., the world’s largest maker of the devices. Pentax was the only unprofitable unit among Hoya’s divisions, posting a 941 million yen loss during the quarter ended June 30.

Most Profitable Unit

The health-care division, which makes contact lenses and surgically implanted lenses, accounted for about 14 percent of the company’s overall sales in the first quarter, up from 10 percent a year earlier. The unit’s 21 percent operating margin in the three months ended June 30 was the highest among Hoya’s biggest businesses.

Hoya may post 15 billion yen in operating profit, or sales minus the cost of goods sold and administrative expenses, for the second quarter, a 60 percent increase from the April-to-June period, the Nikkei newspaper said last week, without saying how it got the information. The Pentax unit likely turned profitable for the first time in seven quarters after the company cut costs by reducing the workforce, the Nikkei said.

Hamada declined to comment on the report, citing the company’s media blackout period before the announcement of earnings on Oct. 30. The yen’s 7.4 percent appreciation against the dollar between July 1 and Sept. 30 hasn’t jeopardized the company’s second-quarter net income forecast for 13.5 billion yen, he said.

“We downsized out organization much faster than others, so we were kind of ready to deal with the yen,” he said. “It was unfavorable, but we were ready for it. So our financial results will be about where we planned.”

<"



Jan 06, 2010 at 08:30 AM
Canongarcon
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p.2 #16 · Pentax plans


Pentax has a strange business model. Sell their products at artificially low prices and lose money. Great idea.


Jan 06, 2010 at 09:04 AM
HerbChong
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p.2 #17 · Pentax plans


do you really believe that the other MF manufacturers are really designing their own AF? and how much can it really save given that the lowest end SLR bodies out there now have AF equal to or better than most MF bodies with AF. the savings in the AF system are completely negligible compared to the cost of the sensor. that is what determines the cost of the camera along with the support network. everything else in a digital body is tiny by comparison.

Herb...

mawz wrote:
Pentax does have significantly lower development costs than their competition since so much of the basic systems are derived from the K mount cameras. A lot of the cost of MF digital is simply amortizing the development costs of the body systems across very few sales (a couple thousand a year at most), Pentax can amortize metering, AF and image processing systems across a few hundred thousand sales a year as these systems are also in the K-7 and K-x. It's the same thing that allowed them to sell the relatively complex 645NII for such a low cost compared to
...Show more



Jan 06, 2010 at 12:07 PM
HerbChong
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p.2 #18 · Pentax plans


in case you haven't noticed, Sony's camera division has not yet come close to breaking even, a terrific business model to emulate. Pentax's camera division has made money in 3 of the last 8 years. better, but Pentax lost so much money in 2001 that all the profits for every year since then has not made up that loss even if you exclude all the other loss years.

Herb....

Jorgen Udvang wrote:
People used to say that about FF as well. Then Sony came along, and now the price is $2,000. With labour cost in Vietnam probably being around 10-20% of that in Japan, and development costs written off over several years, the only things that are more expensive on a 645 than a K-7 are the sensor and the raw materials (plastic and assorted metals). We don't know what kind of deal Pentax have gotten on the sensor, but it should be rather obvious than any manufacturer of MF sensors would be extremely happy if a new customer came in
...Show more



Jan 06, 2010 at 12:09 PM
HerbChong
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p.2 #19 · Pentax plans


as soon as the NX was announced, it was clear that what i had predicted as soon as it became known that a Samsung sensor was in the K20D, that Samsung was going to get all the knowledge it could out of Pentax and use it to develop cameras on their own. it turned out that it was a new mount and not just new cameras. Pentax got cheap sensors and very little else from the deal. note that the statement by Hamada does not exclude selling the entire division for $1 and letting someone else shut it down.

Herb...

Mr.Lindy wrote:
The Pentax division will have to build a partnership in order to compete with larger rivals in the digital-camera market, Hamada said. Pentax supplies Samsung with single-lens-reflex cameras for sale under the South Korean company’s brand.

“I don’t know whether we’ll go with Samsung or somebody else, but I can say that we’ll have a deeper relationship with some electronics guys,” Hamada said. “There will be consolidation in the camera business and a small player like us will be like a small boat on a rough sea. But let me be clear: we will not shut down this business.”




Jan 06, 2010 at 12:17 PM
Tariq Gibran
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p.2 #20 · Pentax plans


HerbChong wrote:
as soon as the NX was announced, it was clear that what i had predicted as soon as it became known that a Samsung sensor was in the K20D, that Samsung was going to get all the knowledge it could out of Pentax and use it to develop cameras on their own. it turned out that it was a new mount and not just new cameras. Pentax got cheap sensors and very little else from the deal. note that the statement by Hamada does not exclude selling the entire division for $1 and letting someone else shut it down.

Herb...



I guess I'm slow. Exactly which technology from Pentax did Samsung use in the NX? The EVF? The Mount? The AF? The non SLR body design? hmm.



Jan 06, 2010 at 12:34 PM
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