ANY machine these days is fine -- if you run Photoshop CS4 Windows 7 64 bit version runs the 64 bit version of CS4 quite OK and Windows 7 is finally a STABLE fast efficient SAFE windows OS.
If you use a Mac so be it as well these days.
For pro shooters Computers are simply TOOLS -- I'm sure BOTH would do the job just fine.
For debating the relative merits of Windows Vs OS-X Vs Linux there are COMPUTER FORUMS all over the web where this stuff can be argued at will if you want.
It's HIGHLY unlikely that ANY decent machine you buy in 2010 will be junk.
Same choice with Cars etc etc.
All things being equal just choose what you like --ergonomically (ease of use) etc etc -- whatever helps you get the job done.
As a Pro - unless you are really on the edge I doubt if even 1,000 USD difference is significant over the life of the product -- especially if you can claim business and other tax allowances.
Students and other non pro's might have other considerations but if you are a PRO and really are making a decision based purely on the up front costs rather than how would you do your work WITHOUT a computer then I'd suggest you need to re-jig your business CAREFULLY.
I'm not saying WASTE money -- that's NOT a good idea whatever you do - but as a pro the choice of machine should be based on business rather than the technology under the hood -- and if you find it easier to work with one brand rather than another -- go for it.
Windows 7 has changed the tenor of this debate; Mac people have a lot less to lord over their Windows-using cousins. XP and Vista were awful, especially if you had to use multiple applications. I can honestly say that my Mac, coupled with some wonderful ShareWare apps, allows me to complete most document and presentation building tasks at least 20% faster than I could on my XP enabled Lenovo. I'm sure my clients appreciate that.
However, I fully recognize that Windows 7 will virtually obliterate the disparity in UI ergonomics between the two systems. Hence, the additional expense of a Mac becomes harder to justify. This is especially true of Apple's MacBook Pro and MacPro models, which I believe are ridiculously expensive, even though I own one of each.
That said, there's a lot of rubbish flying around on both ends of this debate, as is typical for a web forum. I know plenty of people who aren't "stupid," yet prefer using Macs. Heck, many of the people who design the hardware underlying both systems use Macs. They are quite popular among many tech companies in the Valley, and I imagine they will continue to make inroads. Surely, this is not because people are becoming stupider.
Further, Macs offer a certain user end simplicity that is appealing to many users, both "stupid" and smart. I bought iMacs for my dad and my father-in-law over the holidays; their productivity has increased considerably, as they are less intimidated by their computers. Many "seasoned" users poo-poo the value of elegance in physical and software design, but simplifying the computer presents clear psychological benefits. People who might be afraid of computers are more likely to use machines that (1) look cool, (2) have pre-installed software for doing a number of useful tasks, and (3) do not present a veritable hornet's nest of cables, wires, and adapters.
lordarka wrote:
Windows 7 has changed the tenor of this debate; Mac people have a lot less to lord over their Windows-using cousins. XP and Vista were awful, especially if you had to use multiple applications. I can honestly say that my Mac, coupled with some wonderful ShareWare apps, allows me to complete most document and presentation building tasks at least 20% faster than I could on my XP enabled Lenovo. I'm sure my clients appreciate that.
However, I fully recognize that Windows 7 will virtually obliterate the disparity in UI ergonomics between the two systems. Hence, the additional expense of a Mac becomes harder to justify. This is especially true of Apple's MacBook Pro and MacPro models, which I believe are ridiculously expensive, even though I own one of each.
That said, there's a lot of rubbish flying around on both ends of this debate, as is typical for a web forum. I know plenty of people who aren't "stupid," yet prefer using Macs. Heck, many of the people who design the hardware underlying both systems use Macs. They are quite popular among many tech companies in the Valley, and I imagine they will continue to make inroads. Surely, this is not because people are becoming stupider.
Further, Macs offer a certain user end simplicity that is appealing to many users, both "stupid" and smart. I bought iMacs for my dad and my father-in-law over the holidays; their productivity has increased considerably, as they are less intimidated by their computers. Many "seasoned" users poo-poo the value of elegance in physical and software design, but simplifying the computer presents clear psychological benefits. People who might be afraid of computers are more likely to use machines that (1) look cool, (2) have pre-installed software for doing a number of useful tasks, and (3) do not present a veritable hornet's nest of cables, wires, and adapters.
Windows "Haters" who have never used Windows 7 might be quite surprised -- VISTA was for a lot of people probably the most frustrating computing experience ever --especially using it on the hardware that was around at the time.
These days as well there are new SCREEN technologies available so decent monitors are available for BOTH Windows and iMAC machines.
Windows "Haters" who have never used Windows 7 might be quite surprised -- VISTA was for a lot of people probably the most frustrating computing experience ever --especially using it on the hardware that was around at the time.
These days as well there are new SCREEN technologies available so decent monitors are available for BOTH Windows and iMAC machines.
Cheers
-K
Well the problems with Vista were largely due to manfacturers dropping the ball on developing decent drivers. Xp > Vista was a big difference. Not sure why this happened, but Vista was in the beta stage for plenty of time for vendors to tweak drivers.
but you are right... you have to ignore the fanboys and get what works best for you. Since you will be the one working on the machine. The internet makes this difficult because most discussions turn into a battle... and going to the mac store and playing on a Mac for a few hours to see if you really like it is impractical.
Anyhow... I just thought I would throw this out there...
dan727 wrote:
Well the problems with Vista were largely due to manfacturers dropping the ball on developing decent drivers. Xp > Vista was a big difference. Not sure why this happened, but Vista was in the beta stage for plenty of time for vendors to tweak drivers.
Hm no, most of the problems with Vista were due to bloated software that ran too slowly on the hardware released at the time, ridiculous and annoying security features, redundant and confusing release editions, high cost, etc.
Yup. The hardware manufacturers were being cheap and chinsy, selling vista 32-bit on 1 ghz celerons with 512 MB of RAM and a really crappy onboard video controller. That's what hurt the reputation of Vista. Note that if you try running windows 7 on such hardware it would still be rather painful.
Once the cheapo computers got core2's and more RAM, things got better... but really, the 3.5 GB effective memory limit with 32-bit windows is a killer, especially since the OS will suck up 3 gigs of that for itself!
Now that even cheapo computers have core2quads in them, vista or win7 run pretty smooth. I am disappointed that M$ allows manufacturers to include the 32-bit version on hardware that really should have the 64-bit version though... that's just plain stupidity...
Jan 19, 2010 at 11:50 AM
Herb Houghton Offline • • • • • • • Upload & Sell: On
gheller wrote:
Primary reason for getting a (i)Mac:
when you get anther one, one USB plug from one to another, a couple of clicks, and, voila, all is transfered.
So easy...try that with a PC
greg
Roger that. I bought my imac last Jan, and a macbook pro a few months ago. I plugged a firewire between them and had CS4 and all my programs on the laptop in a few minutes, even hundreds of cd's from my itunes. Try that with a pc, it will never happen. Along with the higher cost of macs, pc lovers fail to mention the McAfee or Norton antivirus software that they need to purchase every year. Add that into your calculations. My mac needs none. My mac with 3.06GHZ processor is faster than any HP or Dell pc I've ever owned, and the 24 inch screen is great for photo editing too.
Herb Houghton wrote:
pc lovers fail to mention the McAfee or Norton antivirus software that they need to purchase every year. Add that into your calculations. My mac needs none.
I've never purchased McAfee or Norton antivirus and my Windows computer has been virus free for many years now.
lordarka wrote:
They are quite popular among many tech companies in the Valley, and I imagine they will continue to make inroads. Surely, this is not because people are becoming stupider.
Arka C.
One reason they are popular there is because of the 'cool factor'.
mdude85 wrote:
I've never purchased McAfee or Norton antivirus and my Windows computer has been virus free for many years now.
Same here. Lots of free stuff that works better anyways. Microsoft Security Essentials, and Clamwin are my favorites.
Now, it seems, Apple is even reccomending that mac users install anti virus software. If you read their marketing materials, that previously touted 'feature' of being immune to viruses and malware has quietly disappeared. http://news.cnet.com/8301-1009_3-10110852-83.html
Herb Houghton wrote:
Along with the higher cost of macs, pc lovers fail to mention the McAfee or Norton antivirus software that they need to purchase every year. Add that into your calculations. My mac needs none.
It's not that your Mac needs none, it's that you choose to use none.
I've got Windows installed on four computers at the moment (two of them Macs) and I don't use Norton or McAfee on any of them - there are perfectly good free alternatives.
I just don't understand some people here dissing Apple because it's (supposed to be) more expensive. I drive a Volvo. Love it. Sure I could get a car with more horsepower for less, but hey, it's my money and I get to spend it how I want to. Plus, total cost of ownership can be entirely different from retail price... (I drove a cheaper kind of car with more horsepower before I got the Volvo and I switched for a very good reason).
Having gotten that off my chest, I prefer OS X above Windows. I go all the way back to IBM DOS 1.0, thru all iterations of Windows up to XP. I built my own computers. I was the guy everybody turned to for help. I knew all about fiddling with and fixing the dreaded registry.
Three years ago it was time to get a new computer and I decided to try out a Mac and see what the fuss was all about. I'll tell you I had a hard two weeks adjusting, so ingrained was the Microsoft way of doing things in my tiny brain. But by then I had gotten used to it and right now I have a terrible time trying to find my way in Windows on my wife's laptop.
I've had zero, read again: zero, downtime on my Macs (bought a MacBook two months after getting an iMac), which I've never been able to say of the Windows machines, the last of which was a remarkably expensive Dell tower and that was back when Dell was king of the hill. The integration of hard- and software probably plays a big role in that. Zero downtime means higher productivity and I'll gladly pay for that. I haven't added it all up but I value my spare time and prefer to do different things than fiddling with a computer and I'm willing to bet my Macs have been way cheaper than my PC's, factoring this in.
And, in spite of what I've been reading in some posts, for me support has been fabulous. I never had to contact Apple for my Macs but did have problems with an iPhone. Without questions being asked, I just got a new one. Never had that with any other supplier as most will try to tell you it's you who's the problem. Likewise I ordered an external drive (value $400) which didn't arrive after two weeks and without going through the motions of first starting an investigation, they just sent me another drive immediately and started the investigation afterwards. In my book, that's service.
Things might have changed with Windows 7. I don't know, I can't say. Remember I didn't switch from Windows to Mac because I was unhappy about Windows. All the same my Mac experience has been so much smoother that I'm not willing to switch back at this point in time. In fact I'm ordering yet another Mac...
mdude85 wrote:
One reason they are popular there is because of the 'cool factor'.
Well maybe, but there are a number of engineers and product developers I've met who beleive that the core OS better facilitates the work they do. As sharp as these people are, I would hardl consider them to be trendy or fashion forward.
I'm not qualified to speak to the accuracy of their assertions regarding the OS, but it seems to me that a lot of very smart people are choosing Macs for reasons other than the "cool factor."
Emile Gregoire wrote:
I just don't understand some people here dissing Apple because it's (supposed to be) more expensive. I drive a Volvo. Love it. Sure I could get a car with more horsepower for less, but hey, it's my money and I get to spend it how I want to. Plus, total cost of ownership can be entirely different from retail price... (I drove a cheaper kind of car with more horsepower before I got the Volvo and I switched for a very good reason).
.
Yeah but you could build one to your exact needs and specifications cheaper...
akilah wrote:
do you identify with the nerdy guy (as I do) than the smug guy on the Apple commercials? I want a computer, not a cult.
But ... I'll bet you wish you had Apples marketing ability working for your product ....
That's the whole idea behind marketing ... and branding .... customer/client loyalty ....
It's really confusing here at FM (or any other forum) at times ....
Most experienced folks in the photography field recommend buying the best cameras, lenses, flash units that a budget can afford .... they also recommend the best possible methods to present your wares so that sales grow ... they also recommend offering the best possible customer service humanly possible to reach the pinnacle in client satisfaction ....
But when someone buys an Apple computer and indicates they are pleased with their investment .... they are considered a bunch of fanboy cultists that are blinded by unscrupulous marketing only buying Macs to achieve or maintain their "cool" factor ......
lordarka wrote:
Well maybe, but there are a number of engineers and product developers I've met who beleive that the core OS better facilitates the work they do. As sharp as these people are, I would hardl consider them to be trendy or fashion forward.
I'm not qualified to speak to the accuracy of their assertions regarding the OS, but it seems to me that a lot of very smart people are choosing Macs for reasons other than the "cool factor."
Arka C.
There's plenty of fancy pants unix-based software that we engineers use for specialized applications. OS X, being built off another unix system does port over for some applications. Then again there's a metric ton of technical software that's built on the windows platform. Solaris or some of the linux distributions would be more worthwhile for cad/cam stuff if they were so inclined. Don't fool yourself that these brainy, clever engineers and product developers are not influenced by trendiness or electronic fashion and the like. We are--very much so.
Personally--I've used linux, windows, macs, and probably a couple other operating systems as well. Starting tweaking things from 2nd grade. They all have their virtues and detractions. For the photographic application users of the world--buy what you like. Both Windows and Macs are well covered.
The ecologically conservative person in me hates this recommendation--but buy a mid-level system more often (2-3 years) instead of mega-systems much less often. This is cheaper to do on windows systems, but not enough to have heartburn about it. Being on the bleeding edge is too expensive to be worthwhile as fun as it may be.
Being a student and a tweaker, I'm building a dual-boot pc with Windows 7 and linux box. I like the macs we have at school, though, and they do look nice.
Along with the higher cost of macs, pc lovers fail to mention the McAfee or Norton antivirus software that they need to purchase every year. Add that into your calculations. My mac needs none. 