p.3 #1 · 5DMKII flaws, post pictures which were lost because of the camera
I have no complaints at all - any 'bad' shots I've gotten are due to pilot error on my part. The amount of detail & ability to crop the files (and crop them yet again) is incredible. Everyone blows shots now & then, but I can't blame any of mine on the camera. Take a look at the current price & resale value of the 5D2 compared to the 50D, and the amount of time each has been on the market. Canon users have spoken, and the 5D2 remains a winner.
p.3 #2 · 5DMKII flaws, post pictures which were lost because of the camera
brainiac wrote:
.... I expected quality like a 1Ds3, as promised by Canon, but instead found narrower dynamic range, more intrusive large scale banding in the shadows, and a reduced gamut in the shadows too. For a 1Ds3 user, these are the IQ flaws of the 5D2, which, presumably, are germaine in this thread.
Then why does the 1Ds III shot you've posted in this thread show a similar noise pattern as the 5D Mark II? I see evidence of banding, pattern noise, etc in that shot. This doesn't make sense if you're considering the 1Ds III as "better" than the 5D II in regard to pattern noise and banding.
BTW: I agree with other comments in this thread regarding the shots you've posted here, ie the shots overall aren't as bad as you suggest; some of the noise is photographer-technique related; you may be expecting too much from a 21MP sensor in a less-than-pro body. Considering the cost-per-pixel vs. the Nikon D3x, the 5D II is quite a bargain and does a terrific job, all things considered. Compared to the noise-prone and similarly priced Sony A900, there is no contest as to which is the more versatile DLSR. The noise content of the Sony even at ISO 400 is at the 2001-2003 level.
The difference is barely noticeable and may not be noticeable at all on some monitors. It is so inconsequential in terms of day-to-day, real-world photography that I fail to see the reason why you're presenting it. There is simply nothing there worth investigating or discussing ... not from where I sit, anyway. And my system is calibrated from stem to stern, including my Apple widescreen monitor. For all intents and purposes, the two crops are identical.
I again pose the question (which you didn't answer; you instead threw things back in my court):
if you consider the 5D II to be inferior to the 1Ds III, then why does your 1Ds III image show traces of banding and pattern noise similar to that of the 5D II?
- Steve
Nov 04, 2009 at 08:29 PM
brainiac Offline [X]
p.3 #6 · 5DMKII flaws, post pictures which were lost because of the camera
1) I don't recall saying that the 1Ds3 was perfect, it's just a little better than the 5D2 at low isos in terms of banding
2) this crop is iso 100, as I recall, so you may find it insignificant, but I find it a nuisance, and because of the scale of the banding it does affect tone in most sizes of print
3) this thread says post pictures of 5D2 flaws so I have done so, even though I love my 5D2's, so why the long face?
p.3 #7 · 5DMKII flaws, post pictures which were lost because of the camera
All I can say is that compared to the rant which is going on, nobody could yet post images which were clearly lost because of an issue with the cameras sensor.
I think I have seen Brainiacs pics about a dozen times in different variations. Most of them seem fabricated to demonstate the problem in extremely rare conditions. Good to know, but all systems have limits somewhere and the camera is only as good as the operator.
p.3 #8 · 5DMKII flaws, post pictures which were lost because of the camera
Doo-bop wrote:
All I can say is that compared to the rant which is going on, nobody could yet post images which were clearly lost because of an issue with the cameras sensor.
I think it has more to do with this (not a matter of could but rather want to):
Doo-bop wrote:
I am sick of people who jump in all threads with always the same irrelevant test shots.
Not very inviting to post some images when you start off the thread with such a statement, wouldn't you say?
p.3 #9 · 5DMKII flaws, post pictures which were lost because of the camera
Doo-bop wrote:
All I can say is that compared to the rant which is going on, nobody could yet post images which were clearly lost because of an issue with the cameras sensor.
.
Just set your quality standards low enough, and you will never define an image as lost.
p.3 #11 · 5DMKII flaws, post pictures which were lost because of the camera
OP it seems you continue to itch for conflict
Here's a shot from a paid shoot that got ruined. Due to the large volume of photos required (many award recipients) both my 580EXII's flashes overheated and got safety locked out, so the flash failed to fire for this particular person (I switched to backup 430EX's after this person). Frame came out pitch black. Had to push significantly in post (approx 4-5 stops). Photographer error yes, and noisy image as a result fine, but the patterned noise is most distressing
Btw the banner is a smooth gloss finish, but here it looks like it's made out of checkered cloth
p.3 #13 · 5DMKII flaws, post pictures which were lost because of the camera
I've shot well over 10,000 frames with a 5D2 and I cannot point to a single shot that was "lost through pattern noise or whatever flaw" you are concerned about.
On the other hand, the 5D2 has performed admirably for me in a wide variety of situations and for shooting a wide variety of subjects: much landscape/seascape work including in alpine, seashore, desert environments with conditions including rain, snow, ocean spray, and dust storms; I have done significant amounts of night photography with the camera; I do a lot of urban landscape and street photography; although it isn't my thing, I even shot a wedding for a family member; I photographed several stages of the Tour of California bicycle race. I've made many prints from the images captured with the 5D2.
If you underexpose or improperly expose or apply extreme processes in post I can make images from my 5D or my 5D2 or any other camera I've used (including film cameras) look bad.
I'm hoping that your requests is somewhat tongue-in-cheek...
Dan
Doo-bop wrote:
5DMKII flaws, please post your best pictures which were sadly lost through pattern noise or whatever flaw the Canon has to offer. No test shots please.
People are invited to offer solutions to safe the images or tips how to avoid the problem in the futur.
I am eager to see lots of unique images which were rendered useless by the 5D
added:
The thread s purpose is that we have a place to discuss problems of an excellent camera and offer solutions where possible. I am sick of people who jump in all threads with always the same irrelevant test shots.
At the same time I think with a new tool you always have to learn about limits and problems.
p.3 #14 · 5DMKII flaws, post pictures which were lost because of the camera
Dawei Ye wrote:
OP it seems you continue to itch for conflict
Here's a shot from a paid shoot that got ruined. Due to the large volume of photos required (many award recipients) both my 580EXII's flashes overheated and got safety locked out, so the flash failed to fire for this particular person (I switched to backup 430EX's after this person). Frame came out pitch black. Had to push significantly in post (approx 4-5 stops). Photographer error yes, and noisy image as a result fine, but the patterned noise is most distressing
Considering the circumstances and that the end result was obtained from a totally black image, I'd say things turned out pretty well.
What do you expect? Do you think there's another camera that would have produced a result any different or any better than what you've shown here? The pattern noise is distressing? ... after pushing nearly 5 stops?
I would suggest trying the same thing again with a Nikon D700 ... well regarded for its dynamic range and noise control ... and see what happens when you push its black image 5 stops.
p.3 #15 · 5DMKII flaws, post pictures which were lost because of the camera
veroman wrote:
What do you expect? Do you think there's another camera that would have produced a result any different or any better than what you've shown here? The pattern noise is distressing? ... after pushing nearly 5 stops?
I agree.... pushing 5 stops is really over the top. Still, if the shot can make you money by doing so... I have seen the pattern noise in cases where I had to push exposure by 1-2 stops or when opening up the shadows by more than +15-20 fill light adjustment in LR.
There are also cams that fare better than the 5D2 in this regard. My Nikon D90 was much better. The new 500D and 7D seem to have more lattitude when it comes to pattern noise.
Sure, it is all workable... and I was pleasant surprised to see that the banding tool from Dfine2 clears up much of the 5D2 pattern noise in PP. Still, it is there... and it shouldn't be there IMHO.
p.3 #16 · 5DMKII flaws, post pictures which were lost because of the camera
veroman wrote:
What do you expect? Do you think there's another camera that would have produced a result any different or any better than what you've shown here? The pattern noise is distressing? ... after pushing nearly 5 stops?
- Steve
For the 10000000000000 time, YES. The original 5D has the same flex, but doesn't show a pattern.
Also, what about the ISO 100, non-pushed night shot? That's a shame, IMO.
p.3 #17 · 5DMKII flaws, post pictures which were lost because of the camera
Dawei Ye
I am editing this post with an apology to you. I misunderstood the 5 stop thing and spoke too harshly. I note that the problem was caused by a flash problem, not a deliberate attempt to over push the camera.
p.3 #19 · 5DMKII flaws, post pictures which were lost because of the camera
jeremy_clay wrote:
For the 10000000000000 time, YES. The original 5D has the same flex, but doesn't show a pattern.
Show me a 5D shot ... any ISO ... that was totally black, then pushed 5 stops, adjusted as needed, and that doesn't show the obvious signs of those adjustments.
And please stop comparing the 5D and the 5D II in just words. The words don't mean anything. Anyone can type them. Show real-world demos to back up your statement.
The original 5D has the same flex, but doesn't show a pattern.