p.2 #1 · 5DMKII flaws, post pictures which were lost because of the camera
Something I was just considering...
I wonder if the pattern noise has anything at all to do with the lens you use? That seems like the one thing that will vary the most from user to user - which lens they are using.
p.2 #2 · 5DMKII flaws, post pictures which were lost because of the camera
Dawei Ye wrote:
Personally, I think the poor AF sensitivity and accuracy and speed of the 5D2 is more of an issue than the low ISO pattern noise. The inability to use the outer points is annoying too - for my low light purposes with fast primes, the 5D2 is essentially a 1 AF point camera...thank god for its excellent cropability.
I could not agree more. I was shooting some outdoor senior portraits over the weekend with my 5DII and mostly used a 70-200/2.8IS lens. While I usually use only the center AF point, the various poses lended themselves to using other AF points to maintain focus on the eyes without recomposing.
First, compared to my 1-series bodies I hate the 5D's goofy diamond layout of the AF points but that is another matter.
For a lot of the shots I used the AF point at 1 o'clock for landscape-orientation and the one at 4 o'clock for portrait-orientation shots. I was able to put these AF points smack-dab on the eyes and get a good focus lock in One-Shot.
Guess what? When I got back home a lot of these shots were soft, despite using f4.0 to f5.6. WTF? And it's not like other body parts were soft... it was the eyes. And yes, I have the assist points disabled.
I was able to salvage what I needed to but all in all it was very disappointing. Like I said, when using the center AF point I have no complaints but using the outer points for anything is a real crap shoot.
p.2 #4 · 5DMKII flaws, post pictures which were lost because of the camera
Brainiac, I dont want to make the MK2 look anything better than it is. Maybe there is a camera which could have done it better, I never said it was perfect, there are some limits and imperfections.
your first image of the boy: The image of the tools suggests you did some manipulation on the RGB setting, so we dont really know how many stops you pushed it here, which makes it some kind of difficult to answer to it. At least it seems that the shot was quite a bit underexposed and needs more processing than usual. One way to safe it, add some grain on the image, try not to push the shadows that much. Also the image is IMHO opinion still usable at a normal print size, like 20x30, which is quite good for an underexposed event photograph in dim light.
I dont see a problem with image 2 and 3. The dynamic range is limited. The problem has always been the same and I dont feel like telling you how to compose your shots to not run into this problem with DR. Some people might use HDR for it, I dont like it.
4, again the image is fine, there is no need to push up the shadows like in 5 and 6. It demonstrates the limit of the 5DII, but not an image which is lost because of the camera and it also shows that the 1Ds3 is not really better. Am I wrong in saying that the second crop has a bit more detail in the shadows.
I agree with you on the last pictures, they show how noise limits DR. The 100% crop looks not to bad though. Snapshots against the sun is like spitting against the wind Lastolite TripGrip Reflector may offer a solution.
p.2 #7 · 5DMKII flaws, post pictures which were lost because of the camera
Doo-bop wrote:
Brainiac, I dont want to make the MK2 look anything better than it is. Maybe there is a camera which could have done it better, I never said it was perfect, there are some limits and imperfections.
your first image of the boy: The image of the tools suggests you did some manipulation on the RGB setting, so we dont really know how many stops you pushed it here, which makes it some kind of difficult to answer to it. At least it seems that the shot was quite a bit underexposed and needs more processing than usual. One way to safe it, add some grain on the image, try not to push the shadows that much. Also the image is IMHO opinion still usable at a normal print size, like 20x30, which is quite good for an underexposed event photograph in dim light.
I dont see a problem with image 2 and 3. The dynamic range is limited. The problem has always been the same and I dont feel like telling you how to compose your shots to not run into this problem with DR. Some people might use HDR for it, I dont like it.
4, again the image is fine, there is no need to push up the shadows like in 5 and 6. It demonstrates the limit of the 5DII, but not an image which is lost because of the camera and it also shows that the 1Ds3 is not really better. Am I wrong in saying that the second crop has a bit more detail in the shadows.
I agree with you on the last pictures, they show how noise limits DR. The 100% crop looks not to bad though. Snapshots against the sun is like spitting against the wind Lastolite TripGrip Reflector may offer a solution. ...Show more →
um yeah.. don't know what brainiac really expects..
p.2 #8 · 5DMKII flaws, post pictures which were lost because of the camera
kevinsullivan wrote:
Any digital image can be tortured into a ruin. My 5D II works fine. When I need the ultimate in reliability (mostly in AF but also in fault tolerance) I move up to the 1Ds line. It's prosumer quality vs professional quality in terms of market segmentation. I do not really see a scandal surrounding 5D II performance (as there was around the 1D3 focusing, for example).
True, but why Canon keeps on insisting on using this kind of focusing system on a 21mp FF camera is beyond me. The 5DII should have had a focus system much more in line with the 7D than the 4 year old 5D classic. The D700 has a "pro" AF, why doesn't the 5DII? At this level of camera we should expect a more advanced AF system
p.2 #9 · 5DMKII flaws, post pictures which were lost because of the camera
michael49 wrote:
True, but why Canon keeps on insisting on using this kind of focusing system on a 21mp FF camera is beyond me. The 5DII should have had a focus system much more in line with the 7D than the 4 year old 5D classic. The D700 has a "pro" AF, why doesn't the 5DII? At this level of camera we should expect a more advanced AF system
Because then it might as well be called the 1DsMk3.
Nov 03, 2009 at 06:44 PM
brainiac Offline [X]
p.2 #10 · 5DMKII flaws, post pictures which were lost because of the camera
joewoo wrote:
um yeah.. don't know what brainiac really expects..
Well, it's quite simple: I used a 1Ds3 for a year, and then switched to 5D2's. Canon stated that the 5D2 produced better image quality than the 1Ds3 in it's original 5D2 announcement. That, IMO has turned out to be false, at least in the lower ISO range. So the answer is: I expected quality like a 1Ds3, as promised by Canon, but instead found narrower dynamic range, more intrusive large scale banding in the shadows, and a reduced gamut in the shadows too. For a 1Ds3 user, these are the IQ flaws of the 5D2, which, presumably, are germaine in this thread.
Consider that subsequent cameras to the 5D2, namely the 500D, 7D and 1D4, all appear to contain some kind of engineering fix for the banding and gamut problems of the 5D2, and consequently all appear to be able to outperform the 5D2 in some difficult circumstances.
p.2 #11 · 5DMKII flaws, post pictures which were lost because of the camera
That makes it more like a message to Canon Inc. I understand this but I do not feel the need I have to listen to this message once a day here on the forum.
p.2 #12 · 5DMKII flaws, post pictures which were lost because of the camera
Dawei Ye wrote:
Personally, I think the poor AF sensitivity and accuracy and speed of the 5D2 is more of an issue than the low ISO pattern noise. The inability to use the outer points is annoying too - for my low light purposes with fast primes, the 5D2 is essentially a 1 AF point camera...thank god for its excellent cropability.
That's weird, I must have a super special 5D2 then, because I have no problems focusing in low light, just yesterday I shot at 1/100 f1.8 iso 6400 without a glitch.
By the way I also used a 1Ds3 in the past, but that wasn't good at large apertures with the outer focus points either. It would focus, but the focus would be off. This might not even be the camera's fault but more of the lens. Lenses let more light in at the center of the image than on the edges, so that might throw off the AF system.
I've realized now there's always some compromise to be made. You can't expect a camera to work perfectly in every condition, but if you know the weaknesses you can work around them.
Taking that into consideration I find the 5D2 to be an amazing camera. I wasn't expecting it to be too different from my old 5D, but it has exceeded my expectations.
p.2 #13 · 5DMKII flaws, post pictures which were lost because of the camera
Azrael wrote:
That's weird, I must have a super special 5D2 then, because I have no problems focusing in low light, just yesterday I shot at 1/100 f1.8 iso 6400 without a glitch.
Generally, current ownership of the gear improves positive attributes +10000.
Nov 03, 2009 at 07:41 PM
brainiac Offline [X]
p.2 #14 · 5DMKII flaws, post pictures which were lost because of the camera
Doo-bop wrote:
That makes it more like a message to Canon Inc. I understand this but I do not feel the need I have to listen to this message once a day here on the forum.
OK - I'll keep quiet about it from now on. I am sorry to have made you read about the same thing twice. I'll put the word around the forum that you don't want anybody to repeat anything. ;-)
Nov 03, 2009 at 07:43 PM
brainiac Offline [X]
p.2 #15 · 5DMKII flaws, post pictures which were lost because of the camera
Azrael wrote:
By the way I also used a 1Ds3 in the past, but that wasn't good at large apertures with the outer focus points either. It would focus, but the focus would be off.
My 1Ds3 was like that too. With 35L it was only accurate at wide apertures in the centre.
p.2 #16 · 5DMKII flaws, post pictures which were lost because of the camera
jeremy_clay wrote:
Generally, current ownership of the gear improves positive attributes +10000.
Not for me. Ownership reveals the defects. My 5D2 has crappy AF, and poorly placed at that. Do you think it is defective? Of course not - that is just the way it is.
p.2 #17 · 5DMKII flaws, post pictures which were lost because of the camera
I remember a time when there were no AF on camera's and everyone did just fine. Maybe try taking all of your shots on MF for a week or two and then maybe you will appreciate your camera's focussing abilities a little bit more.
p.2 #18 · 5DMKII flaws, post pictures which were lost because of the camera
brainiac wrote:
My 1Ds3 was like that too. With 35L it was only accurate at wide apertures in the centre.
I would blame the rather heavy field curvature for that. I haven't seen any Canon (or other branded) DLSR that would generate reliable outer AF point results with WA lenses used at large apertures. Stick to the center AF point in these cases is the best option. Or stop down, to counter the effect of the field curvature (usually with a minimum of 2 stops from wide open). Where my 1Ds3 + 35L fails on the outer AF points at f/1.4, it will be excellent by the time I hit f/2.8 or smaller. This no issue when using normal to tele FL's. I can use my 1Ds3 + 85L II on the outer AF points with very accurate results at f/1.2.
p.2 #19 · 5DMKII flaws, post pictures which were lost because of the camera
John Mills wrote:
I remember a time when there were no AF on camera's and everyone did just fine. Maybe try taking all of your shots on MF for a week or two and then maybe you will appreciate your camera's focussing abilities a little bit more.
p.2 #20 · 5DMKII flaws, post pictures which were lost because of the camera
This 5DII misinformation is really beginning to get on my wick now. Here are some examples to show what is being said here is mainly nonsense.
I have posted the original files (all underexposed shots), rescaled to fit and then 100% crops, each PUSHED 1.5 stops in DPP, exactly as Brainiac likes to. Make up your own minds if these examples show the 'hideous pattern noise':
Lastolite TripGrip Reflector may offer a solution.