OK, i am going to try flash next week. There was someone else shooting Friday night besides myself who used an on camera flash. She says that she has never been told not to use it. So, i am going to give it a try now that i don't have to be concerned with being run out of there because i am using a flash.
I have been searching this forum and the internet for the past few hours. I've been to canon's website for information on my flash because i've really never even used the one i have and really don't know more than how to power it on. If i've missed a 'how to thread', someone please point me that way. I really need some starting point tips as far as settings. manual, ettl, etc...Here is what i am shooting with:
Canon 5D
Canon 70-200 f2.8 IS
Canon 550EX
I've been shooting night football with this camera and lens at iso 3200, always f2.8, and usually get an average SS of atleast 1/320. I've learned from reading that i will not get SS any higher than 1/250 with a flash. I understand that will be enough to stop the action because the shutter is not actually doing that because the flash is. how do i set my flash up to do this? I've been playing around with it and do actually know the difference between manual, and ettl modes. i was kidding earlier about only know how to turn it on. But really i'm not sure what all of these settings and options are once i am in manual or ettl modes. I need a little hand holding on how to set the flash up with these modes. i am aware of the debate between using manual or ettl modes. thanks.
With a 70-200/2.8 I've typically fired at 1/250, ISO 400 F2.8 with the flash set to manual, 1/4 power. I only use the 70-200 when action gets close, and flash falls off at greater distances...which means either increase power or increase ISO if the action is further away. Stand in your front yard and see how the light falls off depending on range.
thanks for the info and the links. i have been reading them. I have a question. what is the minimum shutter speed that i can expect to be able to use to shoot action with a flash? My camera(5D) seems to be able to only go up to 1/200 with this flash. From experimenting in my house today with natural lighting from windows, doors and artifical lighting, in some areas i am underexposing a stop or two to get 1/200. I have no idea what its going to be like on the field friday night. i don't want to miss a whole bunch of shots because of a too slow shutter speed needed to stop the action. My guess is that i don't want to go under the 1/200.
dpmurray wrote:
With a 70-200/2.8 I've typically fired at 1/250, ISO 400 F2.8 with the flash set to manual, 1/4 power. I only use the 70-200 when action gets close, and flash falls off at greater distances...which means either increase power or increase ISO if the action is further away. Stand in your front yard and see how the light falls off depending on range.
teppy1 wrote:
thanks for the info and the links. i have been reading them. I have a question. what is the minimum shutter speed that i can expect to be able to use to shoot action with a flash? My camera(5D) seems to be able to only go up to 1/200 with this flash. From experimenting in my house today with natural lighting from windows, doors and artifical lighting, in some areas i am underexposing a stop or two to get 1/200. I have no idea what its going to be like on the field friday night. i don't want to miss a whole bunch of shots because of a too slow shutter speed needed to stop the action. My guess is that i don't want to go under the 1/200....Show more →
Teppy - there have been a TON of posts on Fm regarding flash and sports. Contrary to where it looks like you're going with your questions, the shutter speed isn't what stops the action when you shoot sports - the flash duration is what "freezes" the action. The shutter speed is what controls the exposure for ambient light.
There's a discussion on flash and sports in the third episode of the podcast here:
The info about the flash stopping the action is possibly incorrect. It can be true, however you would need to overpower the ambient light for it to be true. Most consider the best results from when you use the flash for fill. You can try 1/8 power on manual with long fast glass or minus 2-3 stops in ettl. If you don't have real long glass you prolly need to ettl otherwise the distance will be too acute. You'll need a cord to get the flash off the axis of the lens too. My 1dIII will sync at 300 , most canon will at 250 and I've seen a Nikon that would go to 320. I know someone that shoots 100ss with no flash at 2500ISO and gets decent results but not quite to my tastes.
If it were me, and I was trying this out, I'd go manual mode F2.8, iso 800, 1/200 and put the flash into ETTL mode adjusted to -1 exposure.
That way, I'm slightly underexposing the ambient, and only asking the flash to fill in. as it's a night game, the flash will (probably!) brighten the players up plenty. Then adjust the +- compensation on the flash to suit.
the reasoning behing what I'm saying is to have the flash NOT fire full power blasts. Someone else suggested 1/8, and that's good too. The reason is the re-cycling of the flash between flashes is quicker if you use less flash each time. and the higher the ISO with a 2.8 wide open lens, the less work the flash has to do. Just have the flash helping, not taking over.
if the light on the field is not constant, this is one of the 2 places where I'd use TV mode, and set the speed to 1/200.
mervifwdc,
thank you. that sounds good to me. i really was planning on using ETTL because i am stressing at the thought of using manual on my flash not understanding what the heck i am doing. I am trying to grasp using manual, but have not wrapped my brain around it yet. I have been reading all i can though. I am just not too thrilled about going out there and just using settings that were recommended and being clueless about them. Do i adjust the -1 exposure in my camera, or on the flash? i was just now reading an article online at the imageengineer dot com titled 'night football with flash'. this guy shows how to use hose clamps and and L bracket to mount the flash below the camera. He uses iso1600 and f3.5 with SS 1/250 and sets the flash on ETTL -2/3. these are close to the the setting recommended my pdxammo above.
The ETTL seems much easier to me than having to adjust my fstop according to how close or far i am to the action. i wonder why i have not been able to get my 5D to sync at 1/250? I'm going to have to read that manual on that. i've only been plahying with it inside my house and have only been able to get it to do 1/200.
I'd run with 1/200 if that's what it's doing. Check the camera manual - it may be settable.
Adjust the flash power on the flash, starting with -1. You may find you like the results anywhere between -2 and -1/3.
another note for the ETTL on the flash (instead of manual). The advantage of using ETTL on the flash is that it will meter, and therefore the closer a player is, the less power it will need. BUT: unlike camera which can meter anywhere within the image, the ETTL on the flash seems to meter straight ahead, meaning in the centre of your image. So, if you have the focus pont off to one side, and there is nothing in the dead centre of the image except the manager on the opposite side of the pitch, the poor old flash will try light him up, and blow out the players that are much closer but off to one side. So, when shooting with flash, you may find leaving the focus on the center point gives more consistant results.
I've been reading and playing with my camera using the flash in ETTL and manual. Geeze, my head is starting to hurt now from all of the reading and looking through my viewfinder and LCD screens checking settings. The good news is that I am really finally getting it. I could not understand why when in manual, i could not trust my meter on my camera. when the meter is showing a good exposure, my histogram and image for that matter is very, very overexposed. I find this happens in manual no matter what iso, or fstop i choose. in order to get a good exosure, i have to shoot with the meter all the way to the left and blinking. Now, i am noticing after going back and checking merv's post above that he does say that an advantage to ETTL is that it does meter. Duh!!! I just didn't take everything in when reading it the first time. So, my question is, Drum roll......why doesn't the camera meter while using manual? To, me that is going to be hard to get a shot at the right exposure until after taking it and checking the histogram. why would anyone shoot with manual flash? By the time i take a shot and check the histogram adn then am ready to take it, the action is over. I know there is a reason, and i may have heard it before, but until now i don't think i was able to comprehend it. thanks to everyone for hanging with me.
Because the less the camera has to think the faster it is, and as I said before if you are using long glass then you are shooting outside the range in which ettl is most effective. Also you will find that ettl is not very consistent. If one possess a solid understanding then manual can be an advantage, but one must truly grasp the relationships of all the factors that come into play. +1 on the other settings you mentioned but I would always go with the largest aperture you have available. A manfroto super clamp is my choice for off camera flash. The point is that you get some light under the helmet brim revealing the face so it doesn't look like battling robots.(also red-eye).
My experience with the 550ex on the 30D is that the ETTL is not reliable to properly set the power on the flash. Keep in mind you are shooting a player against (usually) a darker background and you only need the player lit.
Unless the player is right on top of you 1/4 power won't white out the scene. Learn to spin the wheel on the back of the camera quickly with your thumb (shoot M mode) 3 clicks and you are usually there to the right setting if action gets real close.
I've also found I usually will get more reliable repeat firings of the flash on M mode versus ETTL.
Shooting sports and football at night is a matter of getting reps behind the camera. Knowing your gear comes with experience hands on the camera more than anything else.
Don't forget that if you want to sync at a higher speed on your 550EX you have the option (though nothing is completely free of tradeoffs) of holding the "+" and "-" buttons (to the right of the mode button) at the same time to enable syncing at any speed. Pressing the same two buttons again will switch to second curtain sync which might also be useful if you're still going to have a lot of ambient in the mix.
masahara,
yes, that was in one of the internet articles that i read. But, maybe the 1/200 will be enough, hoping so anyway. even the new 5D version only sync's at 1/200 too.
the good news is that i got the official thumbs up tonight to shoot with a flash! i feel so relieved! that was really such a huge concern. I am going to go out friday night armed with the advice that i've gotten here and hopefully remember, ready to get some great shots with flash. LMAO! I know i'm gonna need therapy saturday morning from everyone here after seeing what's on my flash card. wish me luck! I'm going both ways, manual and ETTL.
The info about the flash stopping the action is possibly incorrect. It can be true, however you would need to overpower the ambient light for it to be true. Most consider the best results from when you use the flash for fill.
The general rule of thumb is to be 2-3 or more stops over ambient. Good luck using fill flash for night football. First of all, your shutter speed will only be sync speed, at max (unless you use HSS which is a really, really bad idea). Secondly, you run the very real risk of ghosting, which will ruin a shot.
I have had good success with ETTL (despite knowing that I'm outside the technical boundaries of ETTL) but also shoot manual flash a lot.
Dennis ... I admire your work and agree with your opinion on fill flash to a point .... I personally don't think HSS is a bad idea ... I use high speed sync and iTTL all the time for night field sports at shutter speeds from 250 - 640 .... granted I'm not shooting at 400 ISO ... but it can work under the right conditions ... not for everyone ... and won't be effective in all venues ... and it isn't the answer for everyone.
Look, you are certainly free to do whatever you want - no skin off my back. This is one of the oldest discussions there is on FM and one that comes up every year, like clockwork, so it's not like it hasn't been discussed before so I'm not going to go into it all over again..... I'm just trying to provide advice based on many, many games shot over a few years and a bit of technical knowledge.
In fact, I shot with HSS my first year and got quite a few good shots. HOWEVER, once I figured out that how flash action photography worked, and more importantly, how HSS worked (and what HSS is actually intended to do - which BTW isn't action sports - and the myriad negatives things associated with HSS and the positive aspects of using normal flash), and I started shooting with normal flash, my keeper rate skyrocketed.
And also, BTW, getting that "flashed" look is NOT an obvious result of using normal flash unless you do it wrong.
this really is a hot topic. i didn't realize. Whats so confusing is that everyone who has a very strong definite opinion, also have strong awesome shots to back up their point. I have a feeling that each of these methods can work depending on exact methods used such as positions standing, settings used such as iso, maximum distances ever used, and existing ambient lighting.
I am going to try both methods tomorrow night. I am going to post, or i hope i will have something that i am able to post using both manual and ETTL. I was able to get my monopod set up with my flash mounted underneath. I'm on the fence now, but hopefully soon i will be able to join the ranks of one side or the other. Thanks for so many methods, settings, and advice.
