Thanks a lot for doing these comparisons Ulrik, very helpful! Sorry some LCF users are snarky about it.
Apart from slightly different focus (more front focus on summarit) I can see the Leica definitely doesn't destroy more information with noise than the D700 gives you. So in theory at least you could use a profiled noise reduction app such as NeatImage and get a very usable shot.
Here is what NeatImage does with your image Ulrik (I hope you don't mind) using my settings. You can completely remove the grain but I think it looks artificial. The only bad thing is colour moire, unavoidable on the M9.
The NeatImage results excite me and make me want to get rid of my 5D-II... could buy some lovely glass with that extra moneys. If any of you kids are interested in a mirror-shaved one let me know, otherwise I'll get the mirror replaced (should I decide to sell).
They did not have a ASPH :/ I asked, but no stupid store :P
I am actually very impressed with the leica performance, and getting rid of the d700 and getting 1.2 and 1.1-lenses (35 and 50) and a slow 18-20mm is suddenly very tempting. It retains lot of detail and look very.. natural. I have a few other shots, if you want me to find a place to put the raw-files if you want to compare?
I'd love to see how the RAW files look, I haven't downloaded anyone elses yet.
There's a lot to be said for an ultra-speed lens that is usable at said apertures. Like I said before I was shooting at f/1.1 at the Leica launch with ISO100 film, using 1/60s in a shop using half their lights (for more social lighting). I'll get that roll developed on monday, it's Fuji Sensia so at the 42mp my scanner does I should really see what that lens can do.
I have mentioned the lack of mirror vibration helping slower shutter speeds, but also the lack of viewfinder blackout helps with moving subjects so you can micro-track them.
Sounds like you're interested in doing the same kit as me :P though you'd probably get the 35/1.2 nokton whereas I want the lighter summilux.
Oh dear Ulrik are you sure those were shot with an M9? I swear the ISO is very close to my 5D-II... about a stop behind @100%, and with less smudging. Argh, so do I really need video? I wonder if this is a firmware thing, I'm going to analyse your dng's to see if it says which firmware.
EDIT: The M9 you used was 1.002 firmware. 0 EV, Av.
Hehe, I'm close to convincing myself that I have to drop a d700, 85 1.4, 50 1.4 2x58 1.2, 180 2.8, 70-200 2.8, 20 1.8, 24 2.0, 35 1.4, battery grip, CF-cards.... etc, and get a M9 as soon as they are out on the used market for a markdown.. :P
Yeah, that M9 is completely usable at ISO 2500, even in colour. I'm impressed, it's better than I was expecting. The resolution is also bloody impressive.
Oh God, this is just terrible... I watch myself coming back to this thread, searching eBay for m lenses... more and more often... then trying to calculate for how much I could sell my L lenses and my old 5D..... HELP!
belsha wrote:
Oh God, this is just terrible... I watch myself coming back to this thread, searching eBay for m lenses... more and more often... then trying to calculate for how much I could sell my L lenses and my old 5D..... HELP!
If you want HELP you have come to the wrong place...
I have come to the conclusion that the M9 is not too far out of reach ... provided I sell off some of my SLR gear. If I play it smart I ought to keep the Sony A900 w 28/60/135 lenses and the big flash (I hardly ever use but it is good to have one around) and I am looking at the M9 + 28/2.8, 50mm(which?) and possibly a 75/2. That way I have two systems that might compliment each other well.
I sort of regret converting the Leica APO 100/2.8 macro to Sony Alpha mount as I fear I might get too attached to it. The APO 180/3.4 might be harder to sell in Sony Alpha mount but since both conversions are reversible I might play it cool and sit on the lenses for a little while, though I would need to sell them (and both kidneys) to finance the M9 set up.
Wilfredo wrote:
I'm a Leica M8 owner and have gotten plenty of satisfaction out of that camera and plan on keeping it. There are plenty of fans on the Leica User Forum queuing up to buy the M9. Many will be selling there M8's. The $7000.00 price tag for the M9 is more than I can stomach. My limit on a camera body was spent on the M8 ($4800.00) brand new, almost three years ago. I won't engage in Leica insanity any longer. The X1, I find should not have been priced over $1000.00. Neither of these cameras interest me solely because of their price tags. I will wait for the M9 to hit the used markets (I'm in no rush). Thankfully I recently picked up a Canon 5D II which has really taken me by surprise. I'm using it a lot more than I ever did the Canon 5D. The difference in price between the 5D II and the M9 is astronomical. I fear Leica is fast becoming an elitist brand and the little Red circle is gaining the wrong kind of reputation. Not at all what attracted me to Leica in the first place. I wonder what Henri Cartier Bresson would think of the current Leica price for an M9. I sincerely doubt he would have appreciated the frame lines, so much for progress....Show more →
I have had Leicas for over (this seems so long) 40 years and they have always been elitist. They were in the Second World War and they were when I sold them at Terry's Camera Exchange back in the 1970's when the original owner was still there. They have always been expensive so nothing at all is new. I still have my 1949 IIIC with the original Summitar f2. I also have my M2 Leica that Haig overhauled for me after it was dropped (it was brand new) and I have other Leica lenses and "stuff". Well most everyone knows they have always been expensive but not to expect they are in the upper reaches of price is expecting something that they have never been. Now buy a Hassy at 48K like a pro friend of mine did.
Henrik, people went nuts when I sold my 100 APO, lots of offers. Some of the less desirable glass (50 lux, 35 lux) sold very easily on evilbay. Provided you paid a reasonable price it should be very recoupable and maybe more!
I might call the Leica distributor direct (I know someone there) and see if I can pull some strings to get my M9 sent sooner. Maybe if I order a ton of other stuff for my camera store lol.
Here is a M9-shot pushed to iso5000, no NR, 100% crop. Fair bit of shadow noise, perfectly cleanable! If someone with good noise-removing skills want to give it a go, please do! I printed the samples over here in A3+ last night, if anyone lives in Oslo or nearby, I would love to show it to you if you want.
not bad at all, thanks! I think this will be a much better camera for avilable light than first anticipated. With the 0.95, 1.0, 1.1 etc lenses avilable.. this will be an amazing no-flash, avilable light tool.
belsha wrote:
Oh God, this is just terrible... I watch myself coming back to this thread, searching eBay for m lenses... more and more often... then trying to calculate for how much I could sell my L lenses and my old 5D..... HELP!
handled an M9 in the store this weekend. In most respects, it struck me as just the same old M-mount rangefinder body as any Leica (I shoot an Ikon personally). The only thing that really hit me (without being able to use my card) was the rotten LCD screen. Small, poor color, dim, visibly blocky, unsharp, and artifacted on full-size image review. Zooming in to check focus was even worse - literally five seconds for the camera to render the image as more than gigantic blocks. It had a junky Class-6 SD card in the camera, is that delay typical with fast cards as well? Shooting currently with a 5DII, I was a little shocked at how backward the M9 screen was. Could probably get used to it, but man... I love the 5DII screen and would hate to give that up. Again other than that, pretty much same old same old so you know what you're getting.
edit - the other bug that I noticed is that image review always defaults to full-size playback. There is no way to default to the RGB histogram display on initial playback, which would be the best use for such a poor screen.
I have decided that when M9s go down to or close to $4000 used, I'll order one. I'll keep some of my nikon gear (d700 + 70-200) for sports until I'm sure I love the M9, then sell that too :P
jk jk
stupid store :P
Love my Epson 3800!