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Archive 2009Canon EOS 7D Master thread
brainiac
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p.69 #1Canon EOS 7D Master thread
cameron12x wrote:
http://pici.se/pictures/jTflnyWXn.jpg
I'm rather new at all of this. What would be the issue of "normalizing" all of the comparison cameras to the 7D, rather than the other way around?
The truth, but reviewers don't get paid to provide that.
To understand these tests, I first imagine applying appropriate chroma NR AT FULL RESOLUTION, and then downsizing, or more usefully uprezzing them all to 18 or 21 Mpixels. I don't agree that the 5D2 produces no more than 12 Mpixels of data at iso 3200. Noise is data, and correcting it in software can be done much better at 21 Mpixels than at 12.
From this test I intuit (I have to, since the reviewer has obfuscated important data) that the 5D2 is the best performer at iso 3200. It will benefit greatly from chroma NR at 21 Mpixel resolution and will overtake the D700, which has already been NR'ed by the camera. It is hard to say whether the D700 or 7D will be better once the typical process has been applied instead of this. The D5000 certainly comes last. You have to imagine the effects of chroma NR at higher resolutions to see the truth behind this test. That's hard to do without a lot of experience, and even then...
Here's a little example of what I'm talking about, just using the above sample and applying dust and scratches in photoshop:
http://cyberphotographer.com/7d/d700v7d.jpg
Of course, the Canon files can do better because I have had to apply dust and scratches at 12 Mpixels instead of 18 and 21.
http://pici.se/pictures/jTflnyWXn.jpg
I'm rather new at all of this. What would be the issue of "normalizing" all of the comparison cameras to the 7D, rather than the other way around?
The truth, but reviewers don't get paid to provide that.
To understand these tests, I first imagine applying appropriate chroma NR AT FULL RESOLUTION, and then downsizing, or more usefully uprezzing them all to 18 or 21 Mpixels. I don't agree that the 5D2 produces no more than 12 Mpixels of data at iso 3200. Noise is data, and correcting it in software can be done much better at 21 Mpixels than at 12.
From this test I intuit (I have to, since the reviewer has obfuscated important data) that the 5D2 is the best performer at iso 3200. It will benefit greatly from chroma NR at 21 Mpixel resolution and will overtake the D700, which has already been NR'ed by the camera. It is hard to say whether the D700 or 7D will be better once the typical process has been applied instead of this. The D5000 certainly comes last. You have to imagine the effects of chroma NR at higher resolutions to see the truth behind this test. That's hard to do without a lot of experience, and even then...
Here's a little example of what I'm talking about, just using the above sample and applying dust and scratches in photoshop:
http://cyberphotographer.com/7d/d700v7d.jpg
Of course, the Canon files can do better because I have had to apply dust and scratches at 12 Mpixels instead of 18 and 21.
Sep 23, 2009 at 06:38 AM
p.69 #3Canon EOS 7D Master thread
jcbenner wrote:
Will the new SanDisk Extreme Pro 90MB/s CF cards help the speed of the 7D at all? Or are we looking at future cameras only being able to take advantage?
The 7D will support UDMA mode 6, and Canon has stated that we can expect a little bit improved performance with those new cards. The source of this information is the technical details from an official Canon ad, I just can't find the link right now, but it should be in this thread.
Will the new SanDisk Extreme Pro 90MB/s CF cards help the speed of the 7D at all? Or are we looking at future cameras only being able to take advantage?
The 7D will support UDMA mode 6, and Canon has stated that we can expect a little bit improved performance with those new cards. The source of this information is the technical details from an official Canon ad, I just can't find the link right now, but it should be in this thread.
Sep 23, 2009 at 08:37 AM
p.69 #4Canon EOS 7D Master thread
alundeb wrote:
The 7D will support UDMA mode 6, and Canon has stated that we can expect a little bit improved performance with those new cards. The source of this information is the technical details from an official Canon ad, I just can't find the link right now, but it should be in this thread.
This is from the US brochure:
Professional Level Performance
Capable of shooting up to 126 Large/JPEGs with a UDMA CF
card at 8.0 fps, the EOS 7D is a perfect camera for action.
The EOS 7D is outfitted with a rugged, remarkable shutter, which, aided by
the Dual DIGIC 4 Image Processors, ensures instant response and performance
on par with most professional cameras on the market while outpacing
jcbenner wrote
Will the new SanDisk Extreme Pro 90MB/s CF cards help the speed of the 7D at all? Or are we looking at future cameras only being able to take advantage?This is from the US brochure:
Professional Level Performance
Capable of shooting up to 126 Large/JPEGs with a UDMA CF
card at 8.0 fps, the EOS 7D is a perfect camera for action.
The EOS 7D is outfitted with a rugged, remarkable shutter, which, aided by
the Dual DIGIC 4 Image Processors, ensures instant response and performance
on par with most professional cameras on the market while outpacing
Sep 23, 2009 at 08:41 AM
p.69 #5Canon EOS 7D Master thread
brainiac wrote:
To understand these tests, I first imagine applying appropriate chroma NR AT FULL RESOLUTION, and then downsizing, or more usefully uprezzing them all to 18 or 21 Mpixels. I don't agree that the 5D2 produces no more than 12 Mpixels of data at iso 3200. Noise is data, and correcting it in software can be done much better at 21 Mpixels than at 12.
From this test I intuit (I have to, since the reviewer has obfuscated important data) that the 5D2 is the best performer at iso 3200. It will benefit greatly from chroma NR at 21 Mpixel resolution and...Show more →
Thanks for sharing this tip. Very useful info and great post.
To understand these tests, I first imagine applying appropriate chroma NR AT FULL RESOLUTION, and then downsizing, or more usefully uprezzing them all to 18 or 21 Mpixels. I don't agree that the 5D2 produces no more than 12 Mpixels of data at iso 3200. Noise is data, and correcting it in software can be done much better at 21 Mpixels than at 12.
From this test I intuit (I have to, since the reviewer has obfuscated important data) that the 5D2 is the best performer at iso 3200. It will benefit greatly from chroma NR at 21 Mpixel resolution and...Show more →
Thanks for sharing this tip. Very useful info and great post.
Sep 23, 2009 at 08:48 AM
p.69 #6Canon EOS 7D Master thread
Thanks for the brochure quote, John.
Here is what I referred to:
http://www.canon-europe.com/cpn_eos7d/
Technical tab, page 4:
"Memory card choices
The Dual "DIGIC 4" processors ensure a level of future proofing for the camera by allowing the use of Mode 6 UDMA Compact Flash cards. Although Mode 6 UDMA crads are not currently available, it is expected that they will appear later in 2009. When this happens, it is possible the maximum burst capability of the camera will improve."
Here is what I referred to:
http://www.canon-europe.com/cpn_eos7d/
Technical tab, page 4:
"Memory card choices
The Dual "DIGIC 4" processors ensure a level of future proofing for the camera by allowing the use of Mode 6 UDMA Compact Flash cards. Although Mode 6 UDMA crads are not currently available, it is expected that they will appear later in 2009. When this happens, it is possible the maximum burst capability of the camera will improve."
Sep 23, 2009 at 08:54 AM
p.69 #7Canon EOS 7D Master thread
alundeb wrote:
Thanks for the brochure quote, John.
Here is what I referred to:
http://www.canon-europe.com/cpn_eos7d/
Technical tab, page 4:
"Memory card choices
The Dual "DIGIC 4" processors ensure a level of future proofing for the camera by allowing the use of Mode 6 UDMA Compact Flash cards. Although Mode 6 UDMA crads are not currently available, it is expected that they will appear later in 2009. When this happens, it is possible the maximum burst capability of the camera will improve."
Thanks... I had not seen that. We will all be loaded for bear with a new card and the 7D...
Thanks for the brochure quote, John.
Here is what I referred to:
http://www.canon-europe.com/cpn_eos7d/
Technical tab, page 4:
"Memory card choices
The Dual "DIGIC 4" processors ensure a level of future proofing for the camera by allowing the use of Mode 6 UDMA Compact Flash cards. Although Mode 6 UDMA crads are not currently available, it is expected that they will appear later in 2009. When this happens, it is possible the maximum burst capability of the camera will improve."
Thanks... I had not seen that. We will all be loaded for bear with a new card and the 7D...
Sep 23, 2009 at 08:59 AM
p.69 #8Canon EOS 7D Master thread
If the new AF can effectively execute with that kind of throughput in appropriate shooting circumstances we will have a real winner in our hands!
That's the only potential remaining question mark for me. Time will tell.
That's the only potential remaining question mark for me. Time will tell.
Sep 23, 2009 at 09:17 AM
p.69 #9Canon EOS 7D Master thread
I just spoke to Warehouse Express in the UK and they are expecting 100 bodies in this Friday (they got this info from their supply chain this morning)
I'm 60th on the list
I'm 60th on the list
Sep 23, 2009 at 10:32 AM
p.69 #10Canon EOS 7D Master thread
cameron12x wrote:
If the new AF can effectively execute with that kind of throughput in appropriate shooting circumstances we will have a real winner in our hands!
That's the only potential remaining question mark for me. Time will tell.
What's interesting about this conversation is that much of the focus so far, on a "sports/action" camera has been on low light. I guess that's because of the availability of high ISO low light shots.
I'm with Cameron, I'd like to hear more about the AF. So for those of you who have earned a spot on early releases, please more on the AF. I'm fairly well convinced that this is my next step in the APS-c realm. Very glad they did this before the 60D or I would have been one of those who jumped on that bandwagon, only to be disappointed when the 7D came out.
If the new AF can effectively execute with that kind of throughput in appropriate shooting circumstances we will have a real winner in our hands!
That's the only potential remaining question mark for me. Time will tell.
What's interesting about this conversation is that much of the focus so far, on a "sports/action" camera has been on low light. I guess that's because of the availability of high ISO low light shots.
I'm with Cameron, I'd like to hear more about the AF. So for those of you who have earned a spot on early releases, please more on the AF. I'm fairly well convinced that this is my next step in the APS-c realm. Very glad they did this before the 60D or I would have been one of those who jumped on that bandwagon, only to be disappointed when the 7D came out.
Sep 23, 2009 at 10:38 AM
brainiac
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p.69 #11Canon EOS 7D Master thread
1700 GBP here, 1036 GBP in the US.
Sep 23, 2009 at 10:44 AM
p.69 #12Canon EOS 7D Master thread
brainiac wrote:
1700 GBP here, 1036 GBP in the US.
True, and annoying, but that's the way it is.... That price includes an 8GB Extreme 1V and a spare battery, at least at the vendor I'm using, so that helps a bit.
Dave
1700 GBP here, 1036 GBP in the US.
True, and annoying, but that's the way it is.... That price includes an 8GB Extreme 1V and a spare battery, at least at the vendor I'm using, so that helps a bit.
Dave
Sep 23, 2009 at 11:56 AM
p.69 #13Canon EOS 7D Master thread
Ransome wrote:
What's interesting about this conversation is that much of the focus so far, on a "sports/action" camera has been on low light. I guess that's because of the availability of high ISO low light shots.
It's not a sports camera for me - it's a general purpose camera. And about the high ISO interest... Well, basically all DSLRs produce good quality low ISO images, hence the interest in high ISO - that's were the difference shows.
What's interesting about this conversation is that much of the focus so far, on a "sports/action" camera has been on low light. I guess that's because of the availability of high ISO low light shots.
It's not a sports camera for me - it's a general purpose camera. And about the high ISO interest... Well, basically all DSLRs produce good quality low ISO images, hence the interest in high ISO - that's were the difference shows.
Sep 23, 2009 at 12:04 PM
p.69 #14Canon EOS 7D Master thread
brainiac wrote:
1700 GBP here, 1036 GBP in the US.
Please brainiac, enlighten me: in US, the price of 7D will be 1700 USD. Including the shipping, the price goes to 1800 USD (almost 1100 GBP).
If you have to pay VAT on imported goods, you'll have to pay another 15% (17,5% starting Jan 1st 2010). All sums up to 1265 GBP. Let's make a round number: 1300GBP.
What's keeping you from doing this ?
1700 GBP here, 1036 GBP in the US.
Please brainiac, enlighten me: in US, the price of 7D will be 1700 USD. Including the shipping, the price goes to 1800 USD (almost 1100 GBP).
If you have to pay VAT on imported goods, you'll have to pay another 15% (17,5% starting Jan 1st 2010). All sums up to 1265 GBP. Let's make a round number: 1300GBP.
What's keeping you from doing this ?
Sep 23, 2009 at 01:08 PM
p.69 #15Canon EOS 7D Master thread
citro wrote:
Please brainiac, enlighten me: in US, the price of 7D will be 1700 USD. Including the shipping, the price goes to 1800 USD (almost 1100 GBP).
If you have to pay VAT on imported goods, you'll have to pay another 15% (17,5% starting Jan 1st 2010). All sums up to 1265 GBP. Let's make a round number: 1300GBP.
What's keeping you from doing this ?
In France (and likely UK as well), there is a warranty problem with buying Canon bodies in the US (not the lenses though). Here in France to lowest price I could find for the 7D is 1600€ (including taxes).
brainiac wrote
1700 GBP here, 1036 GBP in the US.If you have to pay VAT on imported goods, you'll have to pay another 15% (17,5% starting Jan 1st 2010). All sums up to 1265 GBP. Let's make a round number: 1300GBP.
What's keeping you from doing this ?
In France (and likely UK as well), there is a warranty problem with buying Canon bodies in the US (not the lenses though). Here in France to lowest price I could find for the 7D is 1600€ (including taxes).
Sep 23, 2009 at 01:25 PM
p.69 #16Canon EOS 7D Master thread
True, the warranty is a problem. Canon offers international warranty only on lenses, not on (digital) bodies.
If you run into troubles, you'll have to send the body, by mail, back to US (and pay for it).
I found something weird: I "ordered" the 7D on B&H, and "shipped" it to France using UPS.
Price of camera: 1700USD
Shipping: 50USD
Duties and VAT: 650USD
TOTAL: 2400 USD = 1620EUR
WTF ?
Here it sais that custom duties are 0 for digital bodies.
If you run into troubles, you'll have to send the body, by mail, back to US (and pay for it).
I found something weird: I "ordered" the 7D on B&H, and "shipped" it to France using UPS.
Price of camera: 1700USD
Shipping: 50USD
Duties and VAT: 650USD
TOTAL: 2400 USD = 1620EUR
WTF ?
Here it sais that custom duties are 0 for digital bodies.
Sep 23, 2009 at 01:41 PM
p.69 #17Canon EOS 7D Master thread
citro wrote:
True, the warranty is a problem. Canon offers international warranty only on lenses, not on (digital) bodies.
If you run into troubles, you'll have to send the body, by mail, back to US (and pay for it).
I found something weird: I "ordered" the 7D on B&H, and "shipped" it to France using UPS.
Price of camera: 1700USD
Shipping: 50USD
Duties and VAT: 650USD
TOTAL: 2400 USD = 1620EUR
WTF ?
Here it sais that custom duties are 0 for digital bodies.
wow $650US is a heck of a lot of duties and value tax!
True, the warranty is a problem. Canon offers international warranty only on lenses, not on (digital) bodies.
If you run into troubles, you'll have to send the body, by mail, back to US (and pay for it).
I found something weird: I "ordered" the 7D on B&H, and "shipped" it to France using UPS.
Price of camera: 1700USD
Shipping: 50USD
Duties and VAT: 650USD
TOTAL: 2400 USD = 1620EUR
WTF ?
Here it sais that custom duties are 0 for digital bodies.
wow $650US is a heck of a lot of duties and value tax!
Sep 23, 2009 at 02:23 PM
p.69 #18Canon EOS 7D Master thread
Add me to the pre-order club as I’ve placed an order with Adorama.
I haven’t gone through all the posts on this thread but it looks like most folks are concerned with high ISO noise, but from what I can see it will suit my needs just fine.
What I'm interested most is its AF ability. I’ve never shot a 1 series body, only shooting xxD bodies, but the AF options look mighty nice. I think I’m gonna like - spot AF, AF point expansion, AF zone selection, and servo tracking sensitivity.
Hopefully I’m not too far down the pre-order list.
Wes N.
I haven’t gone through all the posts on this thread but it looks like most folks are concerned with high ISO noise, but from what I can see it will suit my needs just fine.
What I'm interested most is its AF ability. I’ve never shot a 1 series body, only shooting xxD bodies, but the AF options look mighty nice. I think I’m gonna like - spot AF, AF point expansion, AF zone selection, and servo tracking sensitivity.
Hopefully I’m not too far down the pre-order list.
Wes N.
Sep 23, 2009 at 05:58 PM
p.69 #19Canon EOS 7D Master thread
That 7D file looks wayy cleaner than the D5000 after brainiac provided the NR
Sep 23, 2009 at 06:28 PM
p.69 #20Canon EOS 7D Master thread
Here's a question from a non-Canon user:
I've been going through the user manual for the 7D, and it seems to me that the only way to check what metering mode the camera is in, is by looking at the top LCD. Have I misunderstood something, or...?
I've been going through the user manual for the 7D, and it seems to me that the only way to check what metering mode the camera is in, is by looking at the top LCD. Have I misunderstood something, or...?
Sep 23, 2009 at 06:30 PM