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Archive 2009Canon EOS 7D Master thread
p.66 #1Canon EOS 7D Master thread
rsg_1 wrote:
In the above example, it looks like the 7D suffers from a little more chroma noise than the D5000.
As I said, that's partly the fault of my raw-conversion as made by Adobe. When calibrated to give the same colour-separation as the D5000, the 7D "breaks up" a little bit earlier, but it's still a very tight noise that's easy to remedy (at least when downsampled to 12MP, I wouldn't care to much about using the full 18MP at ISO3200...). In the full-size picture that I linked you can see that the Nikon has more "coarse-grained" noise, and that it is also more "blotchy" for lack of more accurate words. I'd much rather work with the 7D file.
When processed "to the best of my abilities", the 7D gives BOTH better detail and less noise than the D5000 at ISO3200, and that is high praise in my book. The 50D was way worse for sure.
I'm a Nikon guy (but dual user), and the 7D is the first Canon in a while that's actually raised my interest.
In the above example, it looks like the 7D suffers from a little more chroma noise than the D5000.
As I said, that's partly the fault of my raw-conversion as made by Adobe. When calibrated to give the same colour-separation as the D5000, the 7D "breaks up" a little bit earlier, but it's still a very tight noise that's easy to remedy (at least when downsampled to 12MP, I wouldn't care to much about using the full 18MP at ISO3200...). In the full-size picture that I linked you can see that the Nikon has more "coarse-grained" noise, and that it is also more "blotchy" for lack of more accurate words. I'd much rather work with the 7D file.
When processed "to the best of my abilities", the 7D gives BOTH better detail and less noise than the D5000 at ISO3200, and that is high praise in my book. The 50D was way worse for sure.
I'm a Nikon guy (but dual user), and the 7D is the first Canon in a while that's actually raised my interest.
Sep 21, 2009 at 04:12 PM
p.66 #2Canon EOS 7D Master thread
brainiac wrote:
...so I see no reason why the 7D should not have caught up with the 5D, either in terms of low-light/noise-floor/banding or in terms of dynamic range.
You know, when I used the 5D, ISO 1600 was the highest I ever really went; I don't think I ever shot at ISO 3200 on an assignment... and we all believed this camera was the low-noise champ at the time.
The fact that the 7D might pull clost to the 5D is pretty amazing for APS-C. And that some might still feel critical of this high ISO performance shows how far our expectations have advanced in the last couple of years since the advent of the 1D3, D3, 5D2, et al.
Somebody else said it well: compared to shooting push-processed film, this is a vastly superior imaging device; it's only in direct comparison with the best contemporary full-frame cameras that shortcomings appear (and this is always going to be the case).
...so I see no reason why the 7D should not have caught up with the 5D, either in terms of low-light/noise-floor/banding or in terms of dynamic range.
You know, when I used the 5D, ISO 1600 was the highest I ever really went; I don't think I ever shot at ISO 3200 on an assignment... and we all believed this camera was the low-noise champ at the time.
The fact that the 7D might pull clost to the 5D is pretty amazing for APS-C. And that some might still feel critical of this high ISO performance shows how far our expectations have advanced in the last couple of years since the advent of the 1D3, D3, 5D2, et al.
Somebody else said it well: compared to shooting push-processed film, this is a vastly superior imaging device; it's only in direct comparison with the best contemporary full-frame cameras that shortcomings appear (and this is always going to be the case).
Sep 21, 2009 at 04:40 PM
p.66 #3Canon EOS 7D Master thread
theSuede wrote:
In the full-size picture that I linked you can see that the Nikon has more "coarse-grained" noise, and that it is also more "blotchy" for lack of more accurate words.
When processed "to the best of my abilities", the 7D gives BOTH better detail and less noise than the D5000 at ISO3200, and that is high praise in my book.
I've always wondered why D5000/D90/D300s suffer from this blotchy look at high ISO. In-camera pre-cooked RAW files?
In the full-size picture that I linked you can see that the Nikon has more "coarse-grained" noise, and that it is also more "blotchy" for lack of more accurate words.
When processed "to the best of my abilities", the 7D gives BOTH better detail and less noise than the D5000 at ISO3200, and that is high praise in my book.
I've always wondered why D5000/D90/D300s suffer from this blotchy look at high ISO. In-camera pre-cooked RAW files?
Sep 21, 2009 at 05:19 PM
p.66 #4Canon EOS 7D Master thread
alundeb wrote:
The discussion about noise performance relative to other cameras is legitimate, relevant and interesting to many. Comments like the one above, and the follow-ups (including this post, unfortunately), is what degrades the thread.
I guess if anyone is genuinely interested in the camera, he'll want to know how the sensor performs. The sensor is after all the HEART of the camera. Image quality is everything. Many folks still suffer from this fear of high pixel density sensors, so the concern regarding the 7D sensor performance is totally legitimate and understandable.
The discussion about noise performance relative to other cameras is legitimate, relevant and interesting to many. Comments like the one above, and the follow-ups (including this post, unfortunately), is what degrades the thread.
I guess if anyone is genuinely interested in the camera, he'll want to know how the sensor performs. The sensor is after all the HEART of the camera. Image quality is everything. Many folks still suffer from this fear of high pixel density sensors, so the concern regarding the 7D sensor performance is totally legitimate and understandable.
Sep 21, 2009 at 05:24 PM
p.66 #5Canon EOS 7D Master thread
"Image quality is everything."
In photography, I would have thought that image content was everything.....how many of the world's iconic images have been taken on cameras that would have been rubbished on this site because of poor 'image quality'.
I'm not sure what is to blame for threads like this...camera manufacturers who have managed to seduce buyers into forgetting what photography should be about...and have instead turned the definition of a good image into noise levels and bokeh....or people with more money than creativity...who therefore need to buy ever more exotic gear in order to hype up their talent because their images show their narrow definition of technical perfection.....'image quality'!
There is probably...where it counts...a real difference between gear geeks and creative photographers...thankfully.
In photography, I would have thought that image content was everything.....how many of the world's iconic images have been taken on cameras that would have been rubbished on this site because of poor 'image quality'.
I'm not sure what is to blame for threads like this...camera manufacturers who have managed to seduce buyers into forgetting what photography should be about...and have instead turned the definition of a good image into noise levels and bokeh....or people with more money than creativity...who therefore need to buy ever more exotic gear in order to hype up their talent because their images show their narrow definition of technical perfection.....'image quality'!
There is probably...where it counts...a real difference between gear geeks and creative photographers...thankfully.
Sep 21, 2009 at 06:47 PM
p.66 #6Canon EOS 7D Master thread
anthonygh:
There is probably...where it counts...a real difference between gear geeks and creative photographers...thankfully.
You may be right but most of us come here to discuss photographic equipment and not artistic aspects (or lack of) in our photography. This is the forum for Canon equipment discussions. Some of us may just like to use cameras
Process is sometimes more interesting than results.
There is probably...where it counts...a real difference between gear geeks and creative photographers...thankfully.
You may be right but most of us come here to discuss photographic equipment and not artistic aspects (or lack of) in our photography. This is the forum for Canon equipment discussions. Some of us may just like to use cameras
Process is sometimes more interesting than results.Sep 21, 2009 at 07:15 PM
p.66 #7Canon EOS 7D Master thread
thw2 wrote:
I've always wondered why D5000/D90/D300s suffer from this blotchy look at high ISO. In-camera pre-cooked RAW files?
That's a very good question.
I've taken a look at some iso3200 raw file from D5000 just now, and man, it does look very strange..
I've always wondered why D5000/D90/D300s suffer from this blotchy look at high ISO. In-camera pre-cooked RAW files?
That's a very good question.
I've taken a look at some iso3200 raw file from D5000 just now, and man, it does look very strange..
Sep 21, 2009 at 07:57 PM
p.66 #8Canon EOS 7D Master thread
anthonygh wrote:
"Image quality is everything."
In photography, I would have thought that image content was everything.....how many of the world's iconic images have been taken on cameras that would have been rubbished on this site because of poor 'image quality'.
I'm not sure what is to blame for threads like this...camera manufacturers who have managed to seduce buyers into forgetting what photography should be about...and have instead turned the definition of a good image into noise levels and bokeh....or people with more money than creativity...who therefore need to buy ever more exotic gear in order to hype up their talent because their...Show more →
So you can`t think technically in a forum like this..........and creatively at another time....like when your out taking photo`s. Sounds like your lacking diversity not us. I work and think creatively when out shooting. But when I`m not I enjoy reading and discussing camera`s. The 7D is a interesting new camera.....I am curious about it.....aren`t you ? This is a Canon camera forum.....why are you even here if discussing camera`s doesn`t interest you ? Curiosity is necessary for creativity........if you are lacking curiosity you may also be lacking creativity......
"Image quality is everything."
In photography, I would have thought that image content was everything.....how many of the world's iconic images have been taken on cameras that would have been rubbished on this site because of poor 'image quality'.
I'm not sure what is to blame for threads like this...camera manufacturers who have managed to seduce buyers into forgetting what photography should be about...and have instead turned the definition of a good image into noise levels and bokeh....or people with more money than creativity...who therefore need to buy ever more exotic gear in order to hype up their talent because their...Show more →
So you can`t think technically in a forum like this..........and creatively at another time....like when your out taking photo`s. Sounds like your lacking diversity not us. I work and think creatively when out shooting. But when I`m not I enjoy reading and discussing camera`s. The 7D is a interesting new camera.....I am curious about it.....aren`t you ? This is a Canon camera forum.....why are you even here if discussing camera`s doesn`t interest you ? Curiosity is necessary for creativity........if you are lacking curiosity you may also be lacking creativity......
Sep 21, 2009 at 08:01 PM
p.66 #9Canon EOS 7D Master thread
Since most of the talk recently has been about noise, I'll throw some chum in the water for the sharks. Camera Labs posted high ISO tests of the D300s compared to the 50D. No 7D for them to test against but they said that would be coming when they got a sample.
Take it for what it's worth, and don't kill the messenger
http://www.cameralabs.com/reviews/Nikon_D300s/noise.shtml
Take it for what it's worth, and don't kill the messenger
http://www.cameralabs.com/reviews/Nikon_D300s/noise.shtml
Sep 21, 2009 at 09:31 PM
p.66 #10Canon EOS 7D Master thread
dwweiche wrote:
Since most of the talk recently has been about noise, I'll throw some chum in the water for the sharks. Camera Labs posted high ISO tests of the D300s compared to the 50D. No 7D for them to test against but they said that would be coming when they got a sample.
Take it for what it's worth, and don't kill the messenger
I won't even bother to click on the link.
Camera Labs has been slamming Canon products in favor of Nikon stuff since they started. What's there to see?
Edited on Sep 21, 2009 at 10:32 PM · View previous versions
Since most of the talk recently has been about noise, I'll throw some chum in the water for the sharks. Camera Labs posted high ISO tests of the D300s compared to the 50D. No 7D for them to test against but they said that would be coming when they got a sample.
Take it for what it's worth, and don't kill the messenger
I won't even bother to click on the link.
Camera Labs has been slamming Canon products in favor of Nikon stuff since they started. What's there to see?
Edited on Sep 21, 2009 at 10:32 PM · View previous versions
Sep 21, 2009 at 09:48 PM
p.66 #11Canon EOS 7D Master thread
dwweiche wrote:
Since most of the talk recently has been about noise, I'll throw some chum in the water for the sharks. Camera Labs posted high ISO tests of the D300s compared to the 50D. No 7D for them to test against but they said that would be coming when they got a sample.
Take it for what it's worth, and don't kill the messenger
http://www.cameralabs.com/reviews/Nikon_D300s/noise.shtml
ugh why did they process the 50D so weirdly??
Since most of the talk recently has been about noise, I'll throw some chum in the water for the sharks. Camera Labs posted high ISO tests of the D300s compared to the 50D. No 7D for them to test against but they said that would be coming when they got a sample.
Take it for what it's worth, and don't kill the messenger
http://www.cameralabs.com/reviews/Nikon_D300s/noise.shtml
ugh why did they process the 50D so weirdly??
Sep 21, 2009 at 10:27 PM
p.66 #12Canon EOS 7D Master thread
anthonygh wrote:
There is probably...where it counts...a real difference between gear geeks and creative photographers...thankfully.
not really, some gear geeks easily outshoot creative photographers and vice versa
you'd be surprised as some of the photos taken by some of the gear geeks....
anyway yeah a great image isn't all about this sort of stuff but this forum is
what do you expect to be talked about in a gear discussion forum and especially in a body-specific thread in such a forum?
There is probably...where it counts...a real difference between gear geeks and creative photographers...thankfully.
not really, some gear geeks easily outshoot creative photographers and vice versa
you'd be surprised as some of the photos taken by some of the gear geeks....
anyway yeah a great image isn't all about this sort of stuff but this forum is
what do you expect to be talked about in a gear discussion forum and especially in a body-specific thread in such a forum?
Sep 21, 2009 at 10:30 PM
p.66 #13Canon EOS 7D Master thread
Yikes ... I just preordered the 7D ... talk some sense into me.
Sep 21, 2009 at 10:59 PM
p.66 #14Canon EOS 7D Master thread
Even I ordered mine couple of days back...I am upgrading from 400D...so surely should be worth it..
rgds,
Anand
rgds,
Anand
Sep 21, 2009 at 11:17 PM
p.66 #15Canon EOS 7D Master thread
In my hands right now, is the book "The Edge of Vision - The rise of abstraction in photography", written by Lyle Rexer. I'm just a poor engineer and amateur photographer with passion for both technical perfection and sublime expression. On my blog, with simple and sometimes minimalisitic images, not requiring technical perfection at all, I have got comments telling me that the images have meant something to people on a personal level. Sorry that the blog is in Norwegian, the titles are kind of important, but i never aimed for an international audience. Just wanted to tell that I'm not only interested in numbers.
Sep 22, 2009 at 12:34 AM
p.66 #16Canon EOS 7D Master thread
First @ Alundeb :
Oh dear, now the numbers guys will find out you're creative ! Prepare to be shunned
Your "Kvinnens beste venn" is my friend too I Like your images much.
Second :
I think with regards to noise and the 7D, the most important aspect is the lack of pattern noise. There is nothing worse than that.
Oh dear, now the numbers guys will find out you're creative ! Prepare to be shunned
Your "Kvinnens beste venn" is my friend too
I Like your images much.Second :
I think with regards to noise and the 7D, the most important aspect is the lack of pattern noise. There is nothing worse than that.
Sep 22, 2009 at 03:43 AM
p.66 #17Canon EOS 7D Master thread
UCSB wrote:
Yikes ... I just preordered the 7D ... talk some sense into me.
Ill take a shot at this one:
In My Opinion,
The 7D has the potential to be the best Wildlife/Crop Body to come in a long time for its class.
You can continue to read the debates over image quality and ISO issues that produce noise. All indications I have seen show ISO performance and image quality will be good if not better than previous releases. Studying the debates and theory's of Quantum physics as it relates to the limits of sensor technology is just that a study. Current technology is always going to introduce noise when ISO settings are increased. I personally don't think anyone will ever be united and agreement on most of these issues.
In the end I compare or analogize with my clients in given situations one question. What is acceptable performance in a given situation? That means beyond all the endless pixel peeping "We" need to look at our use as it relates to out put. Does that mean printing, scaling for the web ect, what ever it means.
I have read every single word here from page 1 to current page and almost never get involved in threads like this. I prefer present my work on other forums for my own enlightenment and others hopefully.
The 7D looks to be one of the best releases in some time. I am not going to depend on these long argumentative threads to decide how well a given tool is going to work for me given the sensor quality looks good to me. My 7D is pre ordered and I will judge beyond these boards how well this tool works for me. It is a bit disappointing I can not glean more from other aspects and use of this cam then the predominate debate.
I also sub scribe to Brainiac's efforts to have any image judged or compared correctly,
Keith
Edited on Sep 22, 2009 at 05:26 PM · View previous versions
Yikes ... I just preordered the 7D ... talk some sense into me.
Ill take a shot at this one:
In My Opinion,
The 7D has the potential to be the best Wildlife/Crop Body to come in a long time for its class.
You can continue to read the debates over image quality and ISO issues that produce noise. All indications I have seen show ISO performance and image quality will be good if not better than previous releases. Studying the debates and theory's of Quantum physics as it relates to the limits of sensor technology is just that a study. Current technology is always going to introduce noise when ISO settings are increased. I personally don't think anyone will ever be united and agreement on most of these issues.
In the end I compare or analogize with my clients in given situations one question. What is acceptable performance in a given situation? That means beyond all the endless pixel peeping "We" need to look at our use as it relates to out put. Does that mean printing, scaling for the web ect, what ever it means.
I have read every single word here from page 1 to current page and almost never get involved in threads like this. I prefer present my work on other forums for my own enlightenment and others hopefully.
The 7D looks to be one of the best releases in some time. I am not going to depend on these long argumentative threads to decide how well a given tool is going to work for me given the sensor quality looks good to me. My 7D is pre ordered and I will judge beyond these boards how well this tool works for me. It is a bit disappointing I can not glean more from other aspects and use of this cam then the predominate debate.
I also sub scribe to Brainiac's efforts to have any image judged or compared correctly,
Keith
Edited on Sep 22, 2009 at 05:26 PM · View previous versions
Sep 22, 2009 at 07:36 AM
p.66 #18Canon EOS 7D Master thread
I just hope the 1Ds II prices come down somehow
Sep 22, 2009 at 08:40 AM
p.66 #19Canon EOS 7D Master thread
So when are they gonna ship the damn thing?
Sep 22, 2009 at 09:02 AM
p.66 #20Canon EOS 7D Master thread
Alan Kefauver wrote:
So when are they gonna ship the damn thing?
Most reliable info I have seen...
Posted today: http://www.robgalbraith.com/bins/content_page.asp?cid=7-10043-10270
Canon EOS 7D on track to ship next week in U.S., Canada
Monday, September 21, 2009 | by Rob Galbraith
The Canon EOS 7D is to be released in the U.S. and Canada beginning in seven to nine days. Lisette Ranga, a camera marketing representative at Canon USA, indicates that units of the 17.92 million image pixel digital SLR will begin to ship from Canon distribution centres to retailers in the first part of next week.
Meanwhile, Canon Canada has informed its network of dealers that the camera will depart from Canon's warehouses starting on Monday, September 28.
Factor in the logistics of shipping caseloads of cameras to a long list of dealers, and the 7D should be in the hands of a decent quantity of pre-order customers in numerous U.S. states and Canadian provinces by the end of next week.
The 7D is probably shipping at about the same time in numerous other countries as well, though we have confirmation of the camera's pending release in the U.S. and Canada only at this time.
So when are they gonna ship the damn thing?
Most reliable info I have seen...
Posted today: http://www.robgalbraith.com/bins/content_page.asp?cid=7-10043-10270
Canon EOS 7D on track to ship next week in U.S., Canada
Monday, September 21, 2009 | by Rob Galbraith
The Canon EOS 7D is to be released in the U.S. and Canada beginning in seven to nine days. Lisette Ranga, a camera marketing representative at Canon USA, indicates that units of the 17.92 million image pixel digital SLR will begin to ship from Canon distribution centres to retailers in the first part of next week.
Meanwhile, Canon Canada has informed its network of dealers that the camera will depart from Canon's warehouses starting on Monday, September 28.
Factor in the logistics of shipping caseloads of cameras to a long list of dealers, and the 7D should be in the hands of a decent quantity of pre-order customers in numerous U.S. states and Canadian provinces by the end of next week.
The 7D is probably shipping at about the same time in numerous other countries as well, though we have confirmation of the camera's pending release in the U.S. and Canada only at this time.
Sep 22, 2009 at 09:11 AM