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Archive 2009 · Canon EOS 7D Master thread

  
 
skibum5
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p.188 #1 · Canon EOS 7D Master thread


Zenon Char wrote:
Oh Man. Now you made me hungry.


heheh and I think these just might taste like chicken....

speaking of the delicious, delicious edible bird, we had 4 giant wild turkeys run right by the side of the house thursday morning.... and none past the front

ok, ok, yeah they kept running right along

i don't eat tons of animals, just the rare or endearing looking ones, aye-ayes, baby seals, etc. etc.



Nov 28, 2009 at 04:56 AM
Fred Tedsen
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p.188 #2 · Canon EOS 7D Master thread


Arthur Morris comments on the 7D:

http://www.birdsasart-blog.com/2009/11/24/baa-bulletin-306-cranes-and-the-canon-eos-7d-first-impressions/



Nov 28, 2009 at 09:59 AM
brainiac
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p.188 #3 · Canon EOS 7D Master thread


jorkata wrote:
Resizing is an intrinsically incorrect way to test, since you are no longer looking at the pixels as produced by the sensor.


You never were. The real data gets 'de-mosaiced' before you can view it, and then it gets interpolated again into ink dots for printing. This notion that your pixels are sacred is a complete fallacy. The pixels are only a medium, through which passes some information. Uprezzing has practically NO negative effect on your image. To believe otherwise is superstition.



Nov 28, 2009 at 11:47 AM
kewlcanon
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p.188 #4 · Canon EOS 7D Master thread


Brainiac you're wasting your energy trying to explain to this jorkata....he'd never understood.

brainiac wrote:
You never were. The real data gets 'de-mosaiced' before you can view it, and then it gets interpolated again into ink dots for printing. This notion that your pixels are sacred is a complete fallacy. The pixels are only a medium, through which passes some information. Uprezzing has practically NO negative effect on your image. To believe otherwise is superstition.




Nov 28, 2009 at 12:37 PM
brainiac
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p.188 #5 · Canon EOS 7D Master thread


kewlcanon wrote:
Brainiac you're wasting your energy...


Hope springs eternal...



Nov 28, 2009 at 12:45 PM
keithreeder
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p.188 #6 · Canon EOS 7D Master thread


kewlcanon wrote:
Brainiac you're wasting your energy trying to explain to this jorkata....he'd never understood.


+1

I guess Jokearta hopes that if he keeps spouting his nonsense for long enough it'll suddenly become true.

Meanwhile, in the Real World, I was reading a 7D review yesterday in one of the UK's oldest and most respected photography magazines (Amateur Photographer).

Its lab tests have confirmed that not only is it less noisy than any of its predecessors (a full 30% less noise at 3200 ISO than the 50D, for example - and half the noise at 12,800 ISO - half!) but also that it has better resolution than any other APS-C body out there.

Results which are exactly what our resident troll insists are impossible.



Nov 28, 2009 at 01:04 PM
mfurman
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p.188 #7 · Canon EOS 7D Master thread


keithreeder:
Its lab tests have confirmed that not only is it less noisy than any of its predecessors (a full 30% less noise at 3200 ISO than the 50D


I was not able to see the test so could you tell me how they measured the noise?

How does it look in ISO 400-1600 range? Many people would not be interested at all in very high ISO because of low image quality (regardless what camera it is).



Nov 28, 2009 at 01:57 PM
Fred Tedsen
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p.188 #8 · Canon EOS 7D Master thread


keithreeder wrote:
Its lab tests have confirmed that not only is it less noisy than any of its predecessors (a full 30% less noise at 3200 ISO than the 50D, for example - and half the noise at 12,800 ISO - half!) but also that it has better resolution than any other APS-C body out there.


What do they say about 100 to 400 ISOs? That's the range where people seem to be complaining the most.



Nov 28, 2009 at 02:12 PM
cameron12x
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p.188 #9 · Canon EOS 7D Master thread


mfurman wrote:
I was not able to see the test so could you tell me how they measured the noise?

How does it look in ISO 400-1600 range? Many people would not be interested at all in very high ISO because of low image quality (regardless what camera it is).


Fred Tedsen wrote:
What do they say about 100 to 400 ISOs? That's the range where people seem to be complaining the most.

+1.

A poll which was taken earlier also mostly confirms that this range (ISO 100-400) is where most of our shooting takes place.



Nov 28, 2009 at 02:21 PM
skibum5
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p.188 #10 · Canon EOS 7D Master thread


Fred Tedsen wrote:
Arthur Morris comments on the 7D:

http://www.birdsasart-blog.com/2009/11/24/baa-bulletin-306-cranes-and-the-canon-eos-7d-first-impressions/


surprised he actually does stuff like clone out entire birds! (i actually sort of like them there in this case) but then again i guess his site is called birds as ART not birds as photojournalism or birds as nature documentary.

good to hear he liked the AF (although has he ever not liked any canon AF)
but he did certainly rave a lot which might be a good sign



Nov 28, 2009 at 02:46 PM
anthonygh
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p.188 #11 · Canon EOS 7D Master thread


Good god...this thread still going?

OK...here's a question! Anyone out there actually using the 7D to take photographs (NOT TESTS) and printing them up?

If yes...it would be good to know the sizes of the prints and the IQ of the prints.....do they have a 'WOW' factor. No mumbo jumbo about amount of cropping.....ISO used etc. Basically.....can this camera produce exhibition quality images?

What would be even better if someone could critique print comparisons with other popular cameras (based on their personal experience) such as the 5D...5D2....50D etc etc.

PS.....This thread has had over a third of a million views!



Nov 28, 2009 at 03:38 PM
paulfeng
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p.188 #12 · Canon EOS 7D Master thread


ejmartin wrote:
Wish I had a penny for every post like this...


You just got another virtual penny, Emil!



Nov 28, 2009 at 03:53 PM
skibum5
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p.188 #13 · Canon EOS 7D Master thread


anthonygh wrote:
Good god...this thread still going?

OK...here's a question! Anyone out there actually using the 7D to take photographs (NOT TESTS) and printing them up?

If yes...it would be good to know the sizes of the prints and the IQ of the prints.....do they have a 'WOW' factor. No mumbo jumbo about amount of cropping.....ISO used etc. Basically.....can this camera produce exhibition quality images?

What would be even better if someone could critique print comparisons with other popular cameras (based on their personal experience) such as the 5D...5D2....50D etc etc.

PS.....This thread has had over a third of a million views!


just for you, NO PICS (although I could blast you with another post with 30-40 photos from all over the world again, all sorts of subjects from landscape to top level D1 NCAA sports, although i don't want to make others have to wade through all that) and MORE TEXT:

clip:

many copies with some converters will do worse than 50D,40D, even 20D at lower ISO in terms of SNR and artifacting and worse with artifacting at higher ISOs, at least in certain parts of some scenes (even with canon's own DPP)

some copies seem to do reasonably ok with any converter, aside from perhaps ACR 5.5 where a few issues still show up if not to a hideous degree

all copies seem to do well with ACR 5.6, at least to the point they appear to more or less universally do better than 10D-50D in terms of DR at any ISO, SNR at high ISO, detail resolved at any ISO, SNR is probably better at low ISO too.

all copies seem to deliver better images overall than the D300s when using ACR 5.6 (more detail resolved, SNR probably similar at worst and better at best, didn't waste timing checking just eyeballed it, at the image level, images are smoother and more natural detail without jaggies and such while still delivering noticeably more detail resolved), although maybe the D300s low ISO DR is a little better, or maybe not, no idea

some copies have a fair amount more vertical, repetitive banding in the depths of the shadows at low and mid iso, only shows up in single-shot very high DR scenes where you need every last bit out of it. has this worse than other canon bodies bit since it also generally has quite a bit less random pattern banding that is not to say it necessarily does worse really than many of them, although sometimes the vertical repetitve 7D banding can be even worse (it might be potentially more easily removed though).

all copies seem to have less random pattern banding, sometimes by a HUGE amount, than the 10D,20D,30D,50D and certainly not worse than the 40D and probably better.

one shot AF with central point seems to be at least a little better than with the 10D-50D; out points are quite noticeably better than with the 10D-30D. I never used them enough to compare it to the 40D-50D's outer points, i'm sure the 7D's are not worse though and likely at least a little better.

haven't put ai servo through the same things i had with 20-50D/1D2 yet and since those were all sold or borrowed I can't really say yet, the word generally sounds pretty good although there are some complaints mixed in with the amazingly and somewhat betters.

much less mirror blackout time than 5D2, vastly faster feeling body

5D2 has noticeably better high ISO performance (better low ISO too) unless the entire scene is nothing but very deep shadows where the pattern banding of the 5D2 could make it a worse end result than the 7D, this is not a common occurence IMO though and the 5D2 usually does noticeably better (although only to be expected with the huge surface area advantage)

5D2 is easier to get 100% crisp pics out of

5D2 AF in one-shot centerpoint AF holds up very, very well compard to the 7D, would not say it is worse

when not distance limited 5D2 does have better IQ in the vast majority of cases for sure

when distance limited the 7D has better IQ (than probably any other mass manufactured camera in existence) (again assuming using ACR 5.6 that actually works well with all copies of it, the 7D does seem very finikcy about the converter, far, far more so than any other DSLR I have ever touched and the body to body performance variance with DPP is much greater than with any body I've used before)

yes it can produce exhibition quality photos easily (weird question though since I have seen some amazing pinhole and polaroid shots on exhibit though so basically any camera can, but in the limited, pixel-peeping sense that YOU are referring too, yes it can, of course)



for those who wanted hard numbers, sorry, didn't waste time collecting them for everything and what ones I do have were not entered in the above and i dont feel like hunting and digging them and typing them in



don't take pics, photos suck!



Nov 28, 2009 at 05:37 PM
sskoutas
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p.188 #14 · Canon EOS 7D Master thread


Fred Tedsen wrote:
Arthur Morris comments on the 7D:

http://www.birdsasart-blog.com/2009/11/24/baa-bulletin-306-cranes-and-the-canon-eos-7d-first-impressions/


Art said "Not to beat a dead horse, but the all new 7D AF system is superb." I'm starting to see a trend here.

I can't recall any AF system getting so much and so solid praise as the 7D seems to be getting. Is it getting this amount of praise because it is performing above expectations for an upper-level "prosumer" body or is it getting this much praise because it is performing at or above the level of a pro body, but at a (much) lower price point?

How do these 19 gifted AF points compare with the pro 45 and 51 point systems?



Nov 28, 2009 at 09:18 PM
ppeh
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p.188 #15 · Canon EOS 7D Master thread


I sold my 7D after 1000 shots over 5 days. The base ISO 100 starts off with noises........this it not good. We can argue that we can run PP to remove these noises? But when U pixel peel..it's rady bad.....it's unacceptable comparing to my 1DMkIII or 5D MkII or even 50D

The ID Design from a handling standpoint is "EXCELLENT". How I wish 5D MKII was design to grip and operate like the 7D.

Canon should have put the 1D Mk4 sensor into the 7D. I'll buy the 7D even it's cost anotther $1000 more with a 1D MK4 Sensor.

Bottom-Line.......the sensor is a let down.

Bear in mind we talking about quality of DSLR as a package and NOT THE POST PROCESSING TOOLS THAT MAKE THIS CAMERA WORKS!

Fred Tedsen wrote:
What do they say about 100 to 400 ISOs? That's the range where people seem to be complaining the most.




Nov 28, 2009 at 09:20 PM
sskoutas
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p.188 #16 · Canon EOS 7D Master thread


cameron12x wrote:
A poll which was taken earlier also mostly confirms that this range (ISO 100-400) is where most of our shooting takes place.


While I agree that this is true, I would venture a guess that the results are tied to the limitations of the bodies we're currently shooting with. If I could get clean 3200 - 6400, it would certainly open up a lot of creative possibilities, not to mention enabling shots that would otherwise simply be impossible.



Nov 28, 2009 at 09:22 PM
kewlcanon
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p.188 #17 · Canon EOS 7D Master thread


So I assume you won't be using NX2 huh ? ...I doubt you have a 5D II....never seen noise on ISO 100 ? busted.

ppeh wrote:
I sold my 7D after 1000 shots over 5 days. The base ISO 100 starts off with noises........this it not good. We can argue that we can run PP to remove these noises? But when U pixel peel..it's rady bad.....it's unacceptable comparing to my 1DMkIII or 5D MkII or even 50D

The ID Design from a handling standpoint is "EXCELLENT". How I wish 5D MKII was design to grip and operate like the 7D.

Canon should have put the 1D Mk4 sensor into the 7D. I'll buy the 7D even it's cost anotther $1000 more with a 1D MK4 Sensor.

Bottom-Line.......the
...Show more



Nov 28, 2009 at 09:26 PM
skibum5
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p.188 #18 · Canon EOS 7D Master thread


ppeh wrote:
I sold my 7D after 1000 shots over 5 days. The base ISO 100 starts off with noises........this it not good. We can argue that we can run PP to remove these noises? But when U pixel peel..it's rady bad.....it's unacceptable comparing to my 1DMkIII or 5D MkII or even 50D

The ID Design from a handling standpoint is "EXCELLENT". How I wish 5D MKII was design to grip and operate like the 7D.

Canon should have put the 1D Mk4 sensor into the 7D. I'll buy the 7D even it's cost anotther $1000 more with a 1D MK4 Sensor.

Bottom-Line.......the
...Show more

did you use ACR 5.6?



Nov 29, 2009 at 12:11 AM
ppeh
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p.188 #19 · Canon EOS 7D Master thread


Running Lightroom 3 Beta for all Canon PP.

I just got a Nikon D700 (used) + a 24-70 f/2.8 and 70-200 VR from my regular shop to try out. Running a Trial NX2 for Nikon PP

I still like the 7D Body, the Industrial Design of this Body is 10/10. Take the sensor out and replace with a Mk4 Sensor and you have a Nikon Slayer. And will probably put SONY range of FF DSLR to RIP.

I think there is too much marketing decision that screw all these products up.

skibum5 wrote:
did you use ACR 5.6?




Nov 29, 2009 at 04:30 AM
keithreeder
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p.188 #20 · Canon EOS 7D Master thread


Fred Tedsen wrote:
What do they say about 100 to 400 ISOs?


AP doesn't say anything about the 7D at 100-400 ISO, but they do provide a graph of their noise analysis and - although I wouldn't usually do this (this is a quick handheld snapshot, as my scanner's kaput) - you can find it here.

Compare it to the same graph for the 500D (same sensor as the 50D).



Nov 29, 2009 at 04:46 AM
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