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Archive 2009Canon 7D
p.38 #1Canon 7D
kakomu wrote:
I get the impression that with every bump in resolution, people state that it can't have good noise control.
Everybody agreed this was the case for the 50D... maybe Canon has redesigned a new sensor like Sony EXMOR for better noise control? We hopefully should know soon.
I get the impression that with every bump in resolution, people state that it can't have good noise control.
Everybody agreed this was the case for the 50D... maybe Canon has redesigned a new sensor like Sony EXMOR for better noise control? We hopefully should know soon.
Aug 28, 2009 at 10:58 AM
p.38 #2Canon 7D
Glen_C wrote:
and to think people thought canon "learned" because the G11 had less MP
the only really good thing about this 18mp small sensor body is the hope it brings that perhaps in a few years canon will put a larger sensor in a similar body with pro-like AF at a 5d-like price.
Between this and the 5DmkII canon could not have come any closer but ULTIMATELY BUNGLE & limit the final product from greater capability (5D2 af system limit, 7D MP overload on small sensor)
Canon might have a trick or two up it's sleeve here.
Consider the G10. OK, Canion has backtracked on pixel numbers, probably concluding with hindsight that the sensor was too small for 15 MP. But in my opinion they nearly cracked it (I own one).
Think how much larger a crop sensor is to the G10 sensor ( factor of 6? )........maybe Canon have improved sensor performance considerably since the 50D was released and 18 MP will have the potential to generate decent images....much better than the 50D.
And maybe Canon have decided to limit ISO settings to ensure better image quality, judging that this is the sensible trade off.
and to think people thought canon "learned" because the G11 had less MP
the only really good thing about this 18mp small sensor body is the hope it brings that perhaps in a few years canon will put a larger sensor in a similar body with pro-like AF at a 5d-like price.
Between this and the 5DmkII canon could not have come any closer but ULTIMATELY BUNGLE & limit the final product from greater capability (5D2 af system limit, 7D MP overload on small sensor)
Canon might have a trick or two up it's sleeve here.
Consider the G10. OK, Canion has backtracked on pixel numbers, probably concluding with hindsight that the sensor was too small for 15 MP. But in my opinion they nearly cracked it (I own one).
Think how much larger a crop sensor is to the G10 sensor ( factor of 6? )........maybe Canon have improved sensor performance considerably since the 50D was released and 18 MP will have the potential to generate decent images....much better than the 50D.
And maybe Canon have decided to limit ISO settings to ensure better image quality, judging that this is the sensible trade off.
Aug 28, 2009 at 10:59 AM
p.38 #3Canon 7D
anthonygh wrote
And maybe Canon have decided to limit ISO settings to ensure better image quality, judging that this is the sensible trade off.
You mean limit at 6400 iso
And maybe Canon have decided to limit ISO settings to ensure better image quality, judging that this is the sensible trade off.
You mean limit at 6400 iso
Aug 28, 2009 at 11:02 AM
p.38 #4Canon 7D
seanbolton wrote:
..
AF sounds excellent (if not crippled in some way, I don't expect so)
Don't jump to that conclusion yet. It very well may have 19 selectable points, but that doesn't say anything about assist points.
I'm very encouraged, but I just don't see it having the same AF as the 1's - they MUST have crippled it in some way. My guess is that there are no hidden assist points, so AI servo tracking performance will have to rely on how close together those 19 af points are. Or, there are only assist points ni the center - which would be OK with me
Edited on Aug 28, 2009 at 11:05 AM · View previous versions
..
AF sounds excellent (if not crippled in some way, I don't expect so)
Don't jump to that conclusion yet. It very well may have 19 selectable points, but that doesn't say anything about assist points.
I'm very encouraged, but I just don't see it having the same AF as the 1's - they MUST have crippled it in some way. My guess is that there are no hidden assist points, so AI servo tracking performance will have to rely on how close together those 19 af points are. Or, there are only assist points ni the center - which would be OK with me
Edited on Aug 28, 2009 at 11:05 AM · View previous versions
Aug 28, 2009 at 11:04 AM
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p.38 #5Canon 7D
Glen_C wrote:
you seem to HAPPILY AGREE with almost anything canon does so i'll happily AGREE TO DISAGREE with you and not waste bandwidth & keystrokes Dude.
Anyone who has seen my posts here over the years will know that I am often very critical of Canon. But I like to think I give credit where it's due. Canon's prices are largely determined by the competition. They are trying to make products that appeal to a broad market. They make mistakes, and they make profit by satisfying photographers wants enough to be given their money. There is no brand loyalty in my opinion on Canon gear. Much of it is still very good, and the prices are what they are.
you seem to HAPPILY AGREE with almost anything canon does so i'll happily AGREE TO DISAGREE with you and not waste bandwidth & keystrokes Dude.
Anyone who has seen my posts here over the years will know that I am often very critical of Canon. But I like to think I give credit where it's due. Canon's prices are largely determined by the competition. They are trying to make products that appeal to a broad market. They make mistakes, and they make profit by satisfying photographers wants enough to be given their money. There is no brand loyalty in my opinion on Canon gear. Much of it is still very good, and the prices are what they are.
Aug 28, 2009 at 11:05 AM
p.38 #6Canon 7D
Fred Relaix wrote:
[
You mean limit at 6400 iso
Agreed. We'll see.
It just pisses me off what Canon does with the 5D II's AF and then they make this 1.6X camera. Will Canon never make a 5D sized FF camera with semi-pro AF, like the D700? Because I really want just one camera and that would do it for me.
Edited on Aug 28, 2009 at 11:06 AM · View previous versions
[
You mean limit at 6400 iso
Agreed. We'll see.
It just pisses me off what Canon does with the 5D II's AF and then they make this 1.6X camera. Will Canon never make a 5D sized FF camera with semi-pro AF, like the D700? Because I really want just one camera and that would do it for me.
Edited on Aug 28, 2009 at 11:06 AM · View previous versions
Aug 28, 2009 at 11:05 AM
p.38 #7Canon 7D
Fred Relaix wrote:
Everybody agreed this was the case for the 50D... maybe Canon has redesigned a new sensor like Sony EXMOR for better noise control? We hopefully should know soon.
There's still a lot of dispute as to whether the 50D's noise control is good or bad. Some say that at the pixel level the 50D is worse, but downsized to 40D res, it's the same or better. Others complain about it being bad at all levels. There's no consensus or agreements about the 50D's quality.
henryng wrote:
Are they copying the Nikon DX lens lineup??
They have a lot of lenses in common. Both Nikon and Canon have an 18-55 3.5-5.6, 18-200 3.5-5.6 and 17-55 f/2.8. Not to mention the usual assortment of similar lenses (70-200 f/2.8, 24-70 f/2.8, etc).
kakomu wrote
I get the impression that with every bump in resolution, people state that it can't have good noise control.There's still a lot of dispute as to whether the 50D's noise control is good or bad. Some say that at the pixel level the 50D is worse, but downsized to 40D res, it's the same or better. Others complain about it being bad at all levels. There's no consensus or agreements about the 50D's quality.
henryng wrote:
Are they copying the Nikon DX lens lineup
??They have a lot of lenses in common. Both Nikon and Canon have an 18-55 3.5-5.6, 18-200 3.5-5.6 and 17-55 f/2.8. Not to mention the usual assortment of similar lenses (70-200 f/2.8, 24-70 f/2.8, etc).
Aug 28, 2009 at 11:06 AM
p.38 #8Canon 7D
kakomu wrote:
??They have a lot of lenses in common. Both Nikon and Canon have an 18-55 3.5-5.6, 18-200 3.5-5.6 and 17-55 f/2.8. Not to mention the usual assortment of similar lenses (70-200 f/2.8, 24-70 f/2.8, etc).
Of course they do, those lenses are very very good sellers, and get pretty good IQ reports even, so this indeed should be way higher on the list that, let's say, a 200-400/4IS
henryng wrote
Are they copying the Nikon DX lens lineup??Of course they do, those lenses are very very good sellers, and get pretty good IQ reports even, so this indeed should be way higher on the list that, let's say, a 200-400/4IS
Aug 28, 2009 at 11:09 AM
p.38 #9Canon 7D
michael49 wrote:
It just pisses me off what Canon does with the 5D II's AF and then they make this 1.6X camera. Will Canon never make a 5D sized FF camera with semi-pro AF, like the D700? Because I really want just one camera and that would do it for me.
I'm 100% sure that they will put the 5DII sensor in the 7D body - maybe next fall.
It just pisses me off what Canon does with the 5D II's AF and then they make this 1.6X camera. Will Canon never make a 5D sized FF camera with semi-pro AF, like the D700? Because I really want just one camera and that would do it for me.
I'm 100% sure that they will put the 5DII sensor in the 7D body - maybe next fall.
Aug 28, 2009 at 11:12 AM
p.38 #10Canon 7D
maybe a 1.3x cropper @ 18mp....I'd probably buy that.
Guess I'll have to wait til Tuesday to find out for sure!
Guess I'll have to wait til Tuesday to find out for sure!
Aug 28, 2009 at 11:13 AM
p.38 #11Canon 7D
I've got two serious problems with this (assuming rumors are correct).
1). Price of $2700 is incredibly hih to compete with d300x.
2). They may as well get rid of the xxd series because none of the improvements fro the 7d (vf, af, etc. ) are ever going to make it to the xxd series. May as well make them all rebels now. There is going to be a stunningly large gap between the top level rebel and the 7d with no feature differentiating product to fill the gap.
1). Price of $2700 is incredibly hih to compete with d300x.
2). They may as well get rid of the xxd series because none of the improvements fro the 7d (vf, af, etc. ) are ever going to make it to the xxd series. May as well make them all rebels now. There is going to be a stunningly large gap between the top level rebel and the 7d with no feature differentiating product to fill the gap.
Aug 28, 2009 at 11:14 AM
p.38 #12Canon 7D
kakomu wrote:
I get the impression that with every bump in resolution, people state that it can't have good noise control.
It's like the apple a day saying. People said it so much everyone just says it without thinking.
Personally, even the FFs don't do that well at 3200 so meh if it does 3200 close to the 50D or does a bit better it's still improvement. Add the rest of the changes and I think this being a D300/s killer is what they had in mind all along.
scott f wrote
I can't believe this thing will have good noise control if it is 18mp on a 1.6x, maybe equal to the 50D and thats it.It's like the apple a day saying. People said it so much everyone just says it without thinking.
Personally, even the FFs don't do that well at 3200 so meh if it does 3200 close to the 50D or does a bit better it's still improvement. Add the rest of the changes and I think this being a D300/s killer is what they had in mind all along.
Aug 28, 2009 at 11:17 AM
p.38 #13Canon 7D
kakomu wrote:
I get the impression that with every bump in resolution, people state that it can't have good noise control.
And generally thats true. Sure the noise control of going from the 40D to 50D is good considering the meg increase, but that's not the same thing. I'd rather see 10 megs with noise free 3200 or 6400 , than 15megs with a qualifier like, "good noise control considering the megapixels".
scott f wrote
I can't believe this thing will have good noise control if it is 18mp on a 1.6x, maybe equal to the 50D and thats it.And generally thats true. Sure the noise control of going from the 40D to 50D is good considering the meg increase, but that's not the same thing. I'd rather see 10 megs with noise free 3200 or 6400 , than 15megs with a qualifier like, "good noise control considering the megapixels".
Aug 28, 2009 at 11:18 AM
p.38 #14Canon 7D
nads wrote:
2). They may as well get rid of the xxd series because none of the improvements fro the 7d (vf, af, etc. ) are ever going to make it to the xxd series.
I think so too.
The 7D is the new xxD series but at a higher price point.
At some point there will be a new Rebel or something for ~$1K: a plastic and more compact version of the 50D with less fps but otherwise identical specs.
2). They may as well get rid of the xxd series because none of the improvements fro the 7d (vf, af, etc. ) are ever going to make it to the xxd series.
I think so too.
The 7D is the new xxD series but at a higher price point.
At some point there will be a new Rebel or something for ~$1K: a plastic and more compact version of the 50D with less fps but otherwise identical specs.
Aug 28, 2009 at 11:23 AM
p.38 #15Canon 7D
anthonygh wrote:
the only really good thing about this 18mp small sensor body is the hope it brings that perhaps in a few years canon will put a larger sensor in a similar body with pro-like AF at a 5d-like price.
Between this and the 5DmkII canon could not have come any closer but ULTIMATELY BUNGLE & limit the final product from greater capability (5D2 af system limit, 7D MP overload on small sensor)Canon might have a trick or two up it's sleeve here.
Consider the G10. OK, Canion has backtracked on pixel numbers, probably concluding with hindsight that the sensor was too small for 15 MP. But in my opinion they nearly cracked it (I own one).
Think how much larger a crop sensor is to the G10 sensor ( factor of 6? )........maybe Canon have improved sensor performance considerably since the 50D was released and 18 MP will have the potential to generate decent images....much better than the 50D.
And maybe Canon have decided to limit ISO settings to ensure better image quality, judging...Show more →
First of all, have a G10, agree with you that the G10 is actually quite good for what you get. It's better then 35 MM film cameras of similar size IMHO.
However, why does everyone seems to think Canon make their own CCD? They don't. The feature set of no HD and 10 mp in the G11 has nothing to do with design decision on the CCD being made by Canon. Rather it was because Sony came out with that 10 MP CCD which Canon wants to use for better higher ISO IQ.
The CMOS sensors in the DSLR on the other hand is all Canon's work. So there maybe we'll see something decent. If it does the same IQ level in terms of noise as the 50D at all ISO settings at 18 MP that's already really good.
Glen_C wrote
and to think people thought canon "learned" because the G11 had less MPthe only really good thing about this 18mp small sensor body is the hope it brings that perhaps in a few years canon will put a larger sensor in a similar body with pro-like AF at a 5d-like price.
Between this and the 5DmkII canon could not have come any closer but ULTIMATELY BUNGLE & limit the final product from greater capability (5D2 af system limit, 7D MP overload on small sensor)
Consider the G10. OK, Canion has backtracked on pixel numbers, probably concluding with hindsight that the sensor was too small for 15 MP. But in my opinion they nearly cracked it (I own one).
Think how much larger a crop sensor is to the G10 sensor ( factor of 6? )........maybe Canon have improved sensor performance considerably since the 50D was released and 18 MP will have the potential to generate decent images....much better than the 50D.
And maybe Canon have decided to limit ISO settings to ensure better image quality, judging...Show more →
First of all, have a G10, agree with you that the G10 is actually quite good for what you get. It's better then 35 MM film cameras of similar size IMHO.
However, why does everyone seems to think Canon make their own CCD? They don't. The feature set of no HD and 10 mp in the G11 has nothing to do with design decision on the CCD being made by Canon. Rather it was because Sony came out with that 10 MP CCD which Canon wants to use for better higher ISO IQ.
The CMOS sensors in the DSLR on the other hand is all Canon's work. So there maybe we'll see something decent. If it does the same IQ level in terms of noise as the 50D at all ISO settings at 18 MP that's already really good.
Aug 28, 2009 at 11:24 AM
p.38 #16Canon 7D
I wonder if this AF system give the same accuracy as the 1 series. I heard tolerance is different in term of DOF. There was a discussion on this a few years back. Non-1 series AF only get you within the DOF but could be on the edge. The 1 series is like within 1/3 DOF or something.
Edited on Aug 28, 2009 at 11:30 AM · View previous versions
Edited on Aug 28, 2009 at 11:30 AM · View previous versions
Aug 28, 2009 at 11:25 AM
p.38 #17Canon 7D
.
At some point there will be a new Rebel or something for ~$1K: a plastic and more compact version of the 50D with less fps but otherwise identical specs.
Isn't that the T1i?
At some point there will be a new Rebel or something for ~$1K: a plastic and more compact version of the 50D with less fps but otherwise identical specs.
Isn't that the T1i?
Aug 28, 2009 at 11:29 AM
p.38 #18Canon 7D
henryng wrote:
I wonder if this AF system give the same accuracy as the 1 series. I heard tolerance is different in term of DOF. There was a discussion on this a few years back. Non-1 series AF only get you within the DOF but could be on the edge. The 1 series is like within 1/3 DOF or something.
You're thinking of the precision of the cross sensors. They are within 1/3 DOF with f/2.8 lenses, only 1 DOF with lenses having a smaller max aperture. This is true for those on the xxD, 5D, 1D, and even the rebels with a center cross AF sensor
I wonder if this AF system give the same accuracy as the 1 series. I heard tolerance is different in term of DOF. There was a discussion on this a few years back. Non-1 series AF only get you within the DOF but could be on the edge. The 1 series is like within 1/3 DOF or something.
You're thinking of the precision of the cross sensors. They are within 1/3 DOF with f/2.8 lenses, only 1 DOF with lenses having a smaller max aperture. This is true for those on the xxD, 5D, 1D, and even the rebels with a center cross AF sensor
Aug 28, 2009 at 11:34 AM
p.38 #19Canon 7D
canon pants wrote
.At some point there will be a new Rebel or something for ~$1K: a plastic and more compact version of the 50D with less fps but otherwise identical specs.
True. But the T1i has a smaller pentamirror viewfinder and sells fro ~$850 with the kit lens.
I still think they'll have a $999 body-only model with a larger pentaprism viewfinder and 1-2 extra fps.
Aug 28, 2009 at 11:34 AM
p.38 #20Canon 7D
I'm wondering if the 7D has an electronic viewfinder by some of the attempted translations?
Aug 28, 2009 at 11:37 AM