I really sounds like many of the people here would be better off with a Nikon body. Sure the lens selection is not the same, but it seems that the body is the most important factor.
That's funny... A friend of mine have a D700 and told me its AF was a weak point in comparizon with my 5DII... I think some Canon people have a gold mine in their hand and still seem to think that Nikon are better for no reason... Like nobody is perfect lol
It'll happen, but not anytime soon. The 5DII is not even a year yet. The original 5D was out over three years before the 5DII was announced. Also, Canon isn't exactly gung-ho about releasing expensive new products in this economy.
All of your commentary is really helpful. I'd also like to add: I too might be willing to pay for better AF, even if it wasn't the full-blown 45-point the 1Ds has. The interesting point, and I bet Canon will take this into consideration, the 40D & 50D have more cross-type AF sensors than 5D!
Based on commentary here, it sounds like the next 5D would probably get an AF similar to 40D/50D and hopefully more spread out.
I don't get a good feeling about weather sealing on a potential successor though.
Disclaimer: I'm an Engineer and I have worked on focus systems and control-loops in the past.
Although the AF system no doubt requires power, having more focus points I think would NOT be a huge power draw since it's not implemented using a contrast method that P&S cameras use (high-pass filter, edge detection algorithm). The phase detection mechanism isn't inherently a power hungry solution.
For AI-servo, I think the increased power draw from the motor might noticeably affect battery life, but probably the biggest hit would be from faster FPS. Increased FPS would mean more buffering, more processing, more shutter actuations per unit time.
EOS 1v has the 45-point AF and it's not a power monster.
- slrl0ver
RDKirk wrote:
It just occurred to me that one of the penalties of "professional autofocusing" as Canon currently engineers it probably requires significant power (given, for instance, that it must drive a very fast shutter and power two processors).
That is, it has up until now. But we also have a 5D2 that is amazingly efficient, perhaps as much as 75 or 80 percent more efficient than the 5D1 (comsidering the number of exposures we can get out of the mah of an LP-E6).
slrl0ver wrote:
Based on commentary here, it sounds like the next 5D would probably get an AF similar to 40D/50D and hopefully more spread out.
I don't get a good feeling about weather sealing on a potential successor though.
Well, Canon does claim the 5DII has weather sealing: tighter seals between seams, gaskets on doors, etc. Not the hardcore sealing of the 1 series but better than the prior 5D.
I shot a 5D for over 3 years and only recently got a 5DII (kinda hard to find as they sell out so fast). My gut feeling is 5DII AF is a little faster and better in low light than the 5D. The center AF point is top notch. The outer points are weak in low light and are out paced by my 50D. 5DII AI servo is better (the 6 extra AF assist points hold the subject better). My gut feeling is the 5D3 will have improved AF and sealing (hopefully not more MP!). Now all you need to do is wait out the 2-3 year product cycle and the 5D3 will be in your bag.
Some people here are like little children... "give me, give me"
If Canon was going to give the 5D pro AF and weather sealing then they would have no choice but to sell it for close to the 1DsmkIII price and then everyone will complain about the price
Then people say "but the D700......." Sure the D700 has things that the 5DII hasn't, but guess what, Nikon decided to give it a low MP FF sensor rather than the one from the D3x
Get over it..... and just deal with what is available on the market now or what has been announced but not delivered.
So far, based on the price difference between D3 and D3X, the difference between the 12Mp sensor and related electronics and its 23 Mp sensor brethren is staggeringly high. So I wouldn't expect D700X to be anywhere close to the D700 in price, or else it would show something to be badly amiss in the D3 "family".
And then something will become obvious for all to see: just as Canon 5D MkII is not a 1DsMkIII for 5D money, D700X will not be a D3X for D700 money.
RDKirk wrote:
I think people are barking up the wrong tree, then. Instead of complaining about the autofocusing of the 5D, it might be more beneficial to complain about the weight of the 1-Series.
right on.. give us a 1D baby version, would you canon now - would you pay 5K for this one?
philber wrote:
So far, based on the price difference between D3 and D3X, the difference between the 12Mp sensor and related electronics and its 23 Mp sensor brethren is staggeringly high. So I wouldn't expect D700X to be anywhere close to the D700 in price, or else it would show something to be badly amiss in the D3 "family".
And then something will become obvious for all to see: just as Canon 5D MkII is not a 1DsMkIII for 5D money, D700X will not be a D3X for D700 money.
Do you think it will be dearer than the D3? Do you think pro pricing has anything to do with consumer pricing? The D700 already showed something to be badly amiss compared to the D3, 95% of the camera for 60% of the price, every body was wondering what Nikon were smoking; it will kill off D3 sales. Do you really believe the D700x will be more than about $1K dearer than a 5D II. No one here would have ever believed the 5D II could use the 1Ds III sensor in a camera costing $2700 and suggestions that it could, would have been laughed down. Just as the D3x is an obscene rip off, so is the 1Ds III, they are priced at a premium because they can do so. This is not a competitive sector with lots of manufacturers vying for a slice of the pie. It's still represents good value compared to MF and many pros would be able to depreciate the cost of the cameras anyway over their lifetime.
It took them three years to come out with the mk2 - what makes you think they are going to come out with a replacement this fast? Also, in those three years, the only thing they really changed was the sensor...
I could see how considering future updates of xxD and 1D mkX makes sense as new ones are released on a regular basis.
Maybe I'm alone on some crazy island here but, why do so many people seem to think the 5D2 or any Canon body is soo inferior to Nikon. I'll be the first to admit that Nikon makes a good product and I have absolutely no problem with anyone that owns Nikon equipment. But, some people make it sound like Canon cameras are about as high quality as something that came out of a cereal box. I feel that the build quality of my 5D2 is quite good. Ergonomics and the user interface and controls are also excellent. Have any of you Canon complainers ever seen all of the buttons on a D300/D700 or tried to set a custom white balance. As far as AF goes, the 5D2 has excellent center point servo performance, at least in my experience. There are of course things that can be improved on, and these are areas where Nikon may have a few advantages. Outer point focusing on the 5D2 is it's only true weekness in my opinion but, you can work around it. IQ is absolutely out of this world!
brainiac wrote:
I suffer the 5D2 focus system because I like smaller lighter bodies. Size-weight matters more to me.
+1 on this. I'm currently looking to upgrade to FF, but weight is a key factor for me also as most of my pictures are taken in the hills when i'm either skiing or walking/camping. I've used a 1DsII and it really was a class above any other digital body else i've used, but i'm not willing to carry a 1.2Kg camera for 20-30Km. Also i'm a little worried that carrying round a 1 series camera in normal day to day use makes you look like a "Pro" and thus attracts problems which don't arise when you look more like an amateur.
For these reasons i've ignored two used 1dsII's advertised locally in recent weeks (and i can afford to buy one). Also, i'm unwilling to spend the cost of a 5D mk2 on a camera which doesn't offer decent build and weather sealing.
For me, a 5D sized camera which has "Pro" build and weather sealing would be perfect. Personally, i'm not so bothered about the AF or 21MP (or video), but it does seem odd to me that an xD series body gets worse AF than a xxD series body. I'm not going to make wild statements about switching to Nikon to get satisfaction, as i like the Canon lens lineup and ergonomics (and i can't afford to switch anyway), but it would be nice if Canon were able to offer something which competes head to head with the D700, as on paper that looks to be pretty much what i want. And i don't think i'm alone.
philber wrote:
So far, based on the price difference between D3 and D3X, the difference between the 12Mp sensor and related electronics and its 23 Mp sensor brethren is staggeringly high. So I wouldn't expect D700X to be anywhere close to the D700 in price, or else it would show something to be badly amiss in the D3 "family".
And then something will become obvious for all to see: just as Canon 5D MkII is not a 1DsMkIII for 5D money, D700X will not be a D3X for D700 money.
and based on the price difference between the 5dmkii and 1dsmkiii, the difference between the 21MP sensor and related electronics and it's 21MP is....
and the D700 is a D3 for less money in many, many ways
What if there was a 6D : 16.7 Mp, weather-sealing, better AF (1Ds) no video? Not a 21 Mp monster to kill off 1Ds-III sales or compete with video on 5D.mk2.
15Bit wrote:
Also, i'm unwilling to spend the cost of a 5D mk2 on a camera which doesn't offer decent build and weather sealing.
Ah dunno, I'm holding a 5DII and it feels like a friggen brick 'o magnesium. Solid as a rock and a little more beefy than my 5D and 50D (which are pretty durn solid too). Canon claims weather sealing for the 5DII albeit not 1 series caliber. Although my 50D has better AF on the outer points, the 5DII whips it good in AI servo (I assume due to the extra 6 AF assist points). Thus I'd describe 5DII AF as equal to 50D AF but with different weaknesses and strengths.
As for security guards, park rangers, cops, etc., hassling you for looking like a pro--no such luck. I've been nailed with my XTi, 40D and 5D multiple times. The 5DII isn't any less pro looking. To a rent-a-cop the 5D series looks as pro as a Rebel or 1DsIII.
Gochugogi wrote:
Ah dunno, I'm holding a 5DII and it feels like a friggen brick 'o magnesium. Solid as a rock and a little more beefy than my 5D and 50D (which are pretty durn solid too). Canon claims weather sealing for the 5DII albeit not 1 series caliber. Although my 50D has better AF on the outer points, the 5DII whips it good in AI servo (I assume due to the extra 6 AF assist points). Thus I'd describe 5DII AF as equal to 50D AF but with different weaknesses and strengths.
As for security guards, park rangers, cops, etc., hassling you for looking like a pro--no such luck. I've been nailed with my XTi, 40D and 5D multiple times. The 5DII isn't any less pro looking. To a rent-a-cop the 5D series looks as pro as a Rebel or 1DsIII. ...Show more →
In all fairness, it feels like a brick but only until you get to play with someone's 1D camera. Then it feels less rugged again. Someone moving from a P&S will probably love the build quality on a 500D. Someone moving from a 500D to a 50D/5D2 will again appreciate the Mg body. In all fairness, my friend's 1D cannot compare in build quality and ruggedness to my Nikkormat FTn !!
though.
now - would you pay 5K for this one? 