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Archive 2009 · D300 users do you shoot Raw or JPG and why?

  
 
Liftik
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p.3 #1 · D300 users do you shoot Raw or JPG and why?


RAw only Lightroom


Jul 02, 2009 at 10:08 AM
Rodolfo Paiz
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p.3 #2 · D300 users do you shoot Raw or JPG and why?


rico wrote:
Actually, I don't always shoot JPEG. Often the camera of choice requires film. Is that the sound of Rodolfo throwing up?


Good God, no. I loved film, and I miss my Tri-X days because they were a lot of fun. I still have a Nikon EM with 50/1.8 as my favorite paperweight. Today and even in the future, for anyone at any level, film is still a perfectly valid choice if you like it, know it, and choose to use it for artistic, nostalgic, personal, aesthetic, or any other reasons. I hope that covers enough ground.

But most people who ask me about the viability or advisability of film these days have neither the experience nor the knowledge to use film well and be happy with it. They are beginner shooters, and they want snapshots, they want to learn, they want to save money, and maybe they dream of getting to be really good. So to them I say: unless (or until) you already know and love film, and you know why you want to use it, then for you... film is dead. Buy a digital camera, and don't look back.

I see no incompatibility between those two points of view... they're just aimed at different people, or even the same person at different times.



Jul 02, 2009 at 05:58 PM
codeninja
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p.3 #3 · D300 users do you shoot Raw or JPG and why?


Rodolfo, how do you like your 60mm f/2.8?


Jul 02, 2009 at 06:08 PM
Rodolfo Paiz
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p.3 #4 · D300 users do you shoot Raw or JPG and why?


Love it. The AF-S micro is small, light, and sharp as a razor. Really appreciate it, so much smaller than the 105VR. But I do miss the reach (esp. with 1.4x or 1.7x) when outside with flowers.

And just to stay on subject, wonderful what you can do with ETTR and RAW files to get some serious dynamic range and shadow details into macro shots with the 60...



Jul 02, 2009 at 06:14 PM
Rodolfo Paiz
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p.3 #5 · D300 users do you shoot Raw or JPG and why?


codeninja wrote:
I guess my question on RAW before making the leap of faith is this. Isn't it true that the whole point of RAW is so that you can custom process individual photos? If you are simply batch processing all your photos with LR2 or NX2, would the IQ be still superior to D300's JPG?


Yes, most of the time. A low-noise, perfectly-exposed, perfectly-white-balanced JPG may do better with the camera's processing than with LR2. Not better than NX2, which can duplicate all the camera's processing with the far greater horsepower of the computer CPU. But, in most cases, the shot will not be absolutely perfect. And for all of those shots, which are most shots, then RAW is uncontestably superior.

Bayer interpolation and other technical issues aside (because they affect any recording of the image regardless of format), a 12-bit camera RAW records 4,096 levels each of red, green, and blue. 14-bit records 16,384 levels of each color. JPG is only 8 bits, which means the most important 256 shades of each color are selected. From 12-bit to 8-bit, you lose 15 out of every 16 shades of RGB the sensor captured... you throw away 94% of your data.

Any processing you have to do will start eliminating some of those shades (those are the missing parts of the histogram in Photoshop). That includes stretching DR by adjusting white/black points, using curves or anything else to correct for a color cast, and every other type of processing or adjustment you ever saw. Plus, the JPG is already set and fixed to the white balance chosen when shooting; altering the white balance alters every pixel and every color destructively in a JPG. With RAW, the software simply re-interprets the file with the change in color temperature you selected.

What would you rather have: RAW where you start with 4,096 (or 16,384) reds, and after editing and still having 2,000 or 3,000 reds you select the best 256 to save your final image as JPG? Or shoot in JPG, then edit to where you only have 150 reds left and save again?

RAW images provide greater highlight recovery. There's easy ability to do exposure bracketing post-shooting using RAW. Non-destructive editing, non-destructive WB changes. And the kicker... by the time you decide that a particular shot is so good (or so screwed up) that it really needs personal attention, it's too late to go back and reshoot in RAW.

So the safe bet, the easy bet, the best-image-quality bet, is always going to be to shoot RAW. There are some very specific reasons why some people can and should choose to use JPG for everything, but those people already know who they are. If you cannot come up with a strong and powerful reason not to use RAW, and you care about the quality of your images, RAW is what would be best for you.



Jul 02, 2009 at 06:29 PM
Rodolfo Paiz
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p.3 #6 · D300 users do you shoot Raw or JPG and why?


It's not like I have an opinion on the subject, you know?


Jul 02, 2009 at 06:29 PM
soonipi1957
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p.3 #7 · D300 users do you shoot Raw or JPG and why?


I shoot 12 bit RAW plus JPEG Fine medium and use the jpegs for culling / selection only.

I shoot a UNIWB and a flat tone curve and process the selected RAW files in NX2 with post processing done in CS3 geared toward my final output requirements.

There is now way you get optimal quality out of a jpeg as compared to a properly processed RAW file.

I suppose if I were shooting just family stuff I might live with jpegs, although I just last weekend shot a christening and compared the processed RAW images to the jpegs and the processed RAW absolutely were better.


It all depends on what you're willing to settle for.



Jul 02, 2009 at 06:43 PM
codeninja
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p.3 #8 · D300 users do you shoot Raw or JPG and why?


Here is the dilema. I want the maximum possible IQ out of D300, whiile not having to tweak every single photos one by one individually. That leaves the option of batch processing RAW, and I'm not 100% if that is still better than JPG out of D300. Sure, I can do special processing on some photos, but there is no way I would do it all...


Jul 02, 2009 at 09:19 PM
luminosity
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p.3 #9 · D300 users do you shoot Raw or JPG and why?


I don't think you understand. RAW blows jpeg away on any scale. You're throwing out millions of colors and megabytes of detail by using jpeg.


Jul 02, 2009 at 10:05 PM
Recalcitrant
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p.3 #10 · D300 users do you shoot Raw or JPG and why?


Both, but not simultaneously. RAW for all my personal stuff, JPG for the swim, soccer and baseball teams only because there are just too many photos to convert.


Jul 02, 2009 at 10:06 PM
Rodolfo Paiz
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p.3 #11 · D300 users do you shoot Raw or JPG and why?


codeninja wrote:
Here is the dilema. I want the maximum possible IQ out of D300, whiile not having to tweak every single photos one by one individually. That leaves the option of batch processing RAW, and I'm not 100% if that is still better than JPG out of D300. Sure, I can do special processing on some photos, but there is no way I would do it all...


You're hung up on the notion that RAW requires you to process each and every shot to get something usable, whereas JPG naturally and magically comes out "pretty good" with no effort on your part. That notion is both silly and incorrect, but it's often stated by people who don't know any better. It's just wrong.

Look at it this way: RAW is like a film negative, JPG is like a Polaroid or a simple set of 4x6 prints from the corner drugstore. You take the shots the same way, and you take your "film" into your developer the same way... but in one case, you get the negative and a set of prints, while in the other case they throw away your negatives and give you only the prints, whose limited quality will limit you forever.

For every shot, you set white balance in the camera (even if you set Auto, the camera chooses a white balance). For every shot, you set exposure, ISO, and so on. You can tell the camera you want vivid colors, you want high/low/no sharpening, and so on. JPG takes all of those ingredients, "cooks" them into a pretty low-quality image (good enough for many purposes, but low in relation to a RAW file quality as discussed previously). RAW will go into the computer with every single bit of data the sensor recorded, and the RAW file has all those ISO/WB/IP settings coded into it too... so LR, ACR, NX, or whatever RAW converter you use, will do the "cooking" for you and still give you a usable image immediately.

You do not have to do any extra processing to RAWs compared to JPG. You just take the shots, import them into the computer, and you're done in both cases. If you just want what the camera would have done, you do the six-second process I described before and you can get all the JPGs you want, without any additional real work. But you also have the flexibility to tweak, change, and process to your heart's content on each file, or by batches, without losing anything.

Do you see what I'm saying? This whole idea that you have to process a RAW is just wrong... all the camera image settings are in the file, and it's just as ready to print or send as a JPG the instant you get it into the computer. The only cost to you is a larger file, which does take a couple of seconds more to process... but you get benefits from those couple of seconds which last forever. You have the option to do more work on the files, but you do not have any sort of requirement to do so.

Besides, don't underestimage the power and benefit of batch processing. Ever had a day when the camera's WB decisions were just off? You can (destructively) alter all your JPGs at length and with some work... but RAW, it's just a function of selecting them and changing the white balance number. All edits are non-destructive, too, so your images are safer.

What software do you use? Let me show you the exact workflows required, and you'll see what I mean. There is no extra work in RAW, really... no real cost except for file size, but lots of benefits.



Jul 02, 2009 at 11:28 PM
codeninja
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p.3 #12 · D300 users do you shoot Raw or JPG and why?


I can try to download the trial version of NX2, but thinking of using LR. Thanks for the kind advice, Rodolfo. And, I'm interested in finding out which handles the noise better especially the ones in low ISO with D300


Jul 03, 2009 at 02:58 AM
Rodolfo Paiz
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p.3 #13 · D300 users do you shoot Raw or JPG and why?


What noise in low ISO with D300?

Love LR2. Some things could be better, but it sure makes most of my life waaaay easier. Haven't gotten real skilled at NX2 yet, but it definitely does get that little extra bit of "wow" out of a file, so I re-process my best shots with it now. Everything else stays in LR2.



Jul 03, 2009 at 03:26 AM
Mocca
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p.3 #14 · D300 users do you shoot Raw or JPG and why?


For those who are using other converters than NX2, and want a reference JPG, there is a freeware program called; ta da - previewextractor.

Can be found here : http://drchung.new21.net/previewextractor/

Exif is unfortunately not kept - but he's working on it.

:edit:

Also available, but untried by me :

Instant JPEG from RAW : http://www.rawworkflow.com/instant-jpeg-from-raw-utility/
by the Raw workflow guys.

and

RAW-Extractor 2.0 : http://www.idimager.com/?page=freeware
by idimager.



Jul 03, 2009 at 05:20 AM
Len Shepherd
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p.3 #15 · D300 users do you shoot Raw or JPG and why?


For a relative beginner jpeg compresses 8 pieces of information into 1, and is 8 bit colour i.e. a maximum (assuming no post processing) of 256 shades of blue, of green and of red.
jpeg is good enough for many purposes where ultimate quality is not needed.
RAW does not compress any information. Also 9 bit is 512 shades, 10 bit 1024, 12 bit 4100 shades and 14 bit is 16000 shades. It goes without saying for top image quality RAW is the best option.
As this is a Nikon discussion board shooting Nikon RAW (NEF) and adjusting camera settings in NX2 results in less loss of image information than adjusting in other software which does not process camera settings.



Jul 03, 2009 at 07:05 AM
nikt
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p.3 #16 · D300 users do you shoot Raw or JPG and why?


I shoot JPG's in 'Basic' resolution. What I'd like to see if 256 colour GIF's straight out of cam.


Jul 03, 2009 at 08:20 AM
eaglewolf
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p.3 #17 · D300 users do you shoot Raw or JPG and why?


nikt wrote:
I shoot JPG's in 'Basic' resolution. What I'd like to see if 256 colour GIF's straight out of cam.


Man, that out to give you a lot of images on a 16Gb card! If Nikon would quit going for the high resolution stuff we keep asking them for they could probably get us up to 30fps with autofocus! The heck with HD - give me fast, fast fast!

Okay, so maybe HD at 30fps with AF would be nice too...

Well, maybe just give us great IQ and I'd be happy - oh wait, we already have that!

David



Jul 03, 2009 at 10:53 AM
TonyBeach
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p.3 #18 · D300 users do you shoot Raw or JPG and why?


codeninja wrote:
Here is the dilemma. I want the maximum possible IQ out of D300, while not having to tweak every single photos one by one individually. That leaves the option of batch processing RAW, and I'm not 100% if that is still better than JPG out of D300. Sure, I can do special processing on some photos, but there is no way I would do it all...


First, maximum possible IQ includes ETTR, and you can incorporate a 1/3 of a stop of positive EC adjustment shooting RAW and pull the conversions back by that much in conversion with absolute impunity; you cannot do that with out of the camera JPEGs. For even more image quality, you can often go as high as one stop of positive EC in RAW, but you will need uni-WB and custom settings to safely accomplish that.

Also, there is a middle ground between never touching a file and intensive post processing. You can set up default conversion settings in your RAW converter and Actions in Photoshop (both based on tweaking files to your individual tastes), and with these you can go from a RAW image to a finished JPEG in a couple of minutes with no more effort than pushing hotkeys.



Jul 03, 2009 at 10:59 AM
DaveR1000
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p.3 #19 · D300 users do you shoot Raw or JPG and why?


I shoot raw most of the time and use LR to convert. I shoot JPG when I shoot sports though due to the number of shots.

Dave



Jul 03, 2009 at 07:44 PM
nikt
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p.3 #20 · D300 users do you shoot Raw or JPG and why?


eaglewolf wrote:
Man, that out to give you a lot of images on a 16Gb card! If Nikon would quit going for the high resolution stuff we keep asking them for they could probably get us up to 30fps with autofocus! The heck with HD - give me fast, fast fast!

Okay, so maybe HD at 30fps with AF would be nice too...

Well, maybe just give us great IQ and I'd be happy - oh wait, we already have that!

David






Jul 03, 2009 at 09:31 PM
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