I've been having a really tough time with posing my models lately. I always spend some time with the model beforehand, just chat, get comfortable, so she's more relaxed for the shoot. As soon as the camera comes out though some girls still feel a tad unnatural.
Can anyone link any material that might help with posing?
What I have found is that is takes a little while to build a rapport, allow the model time to relax and have fun - don't pressure them. Then the natural poses come out and can be refined with some friendly coaching as you communicate with your subject.
What I have found is that is takes a little while to build a rapport, allow the model time to relax and have fun - don't pressure them. Then the natural poses come out and can be refined with some friendly coaching as you communicate with your subject.
Maybe I was a bit unclear in my original post. I have no problem with building rapport. It's the friendly coaching I'm having trouble with.
I'm having lots of moments in post where, after analyzing the shot, i find myself wishing that a hand was in a different spot, or a leg, or a head tilt, etc.
synthesist wrote:
Maybe I was a bit unclear in my original post. I have no problem with building rapport. It's the friendly coaching I'm having trouble with.
I'm having lots of moments in post where, after analyzing the shot, i find myself wishing that a hand was in a different spot, or a leg, or a head tilt, etc.
I have a similar thing happen in post, and I keep telling myself that during shooting, I need to slow down a bit, really look at the scene, and try to spot those things that I notice when the image is on my monitor. I find, if I consciously do this, the shots come out a lot closer to what I'm going for. Sounds simple, but it's actually really easy to overlook when I feel pressured to keep the pace of the shoot a bit faster. Basically, try to slow down.
Matt Leitholt wrote:
I really don't know posing well, but get close with your model, touch him or her, get personal. That's what Joe Mcnally does
Well, everybody to their own style, but I never touch a subject to pose them.
Americans have a pretty well defined sense of space, their personal circle is usually much larger than many other cultures. It's bad enough if you invade their space, touch most and they tighten right up.
I subscribe to an "organic" approach to posing. Place the subject in a comfortable environment, engage in banter and watch. They will naturally fall in poses that are right for them. Usually the poses will need a little refinement, nothing more than "now lower your chin just a tad".
It's amazing how easily folks will follow your hand. If I want them to turn their head or tilt it a little, I just raise my hand and move it in the direction I want it to go, while saying something like "tilt your head just a tad" as I move my hand. The nifty thing is when they're where you want them, just stop moving your hand and they'll stay there. It's hard to explain in words. It's fun to demonstrate. I'll pull one of my students up to the front of the class and in 30 seconds have them in a nice pose, just like I want it. The class breaks out in a grin when they see how easy it is.
One last thing. When shooting Seniors, I used to love to demonstrate poses to the girls. It was a great icebreaker to see me act silly striking feminine poses. They may bust out laughing, but they'd usually mimic the pose perfectly, giving me just what I wanted.
Anyone know of a resource for modern high fashion poses? The poses I see in portrait books is completely different from the positions I see in the mags.
brad_s wrote:
Anyone know of a resource for modern high fashion poses? The poses I see in portrait books is completely different from the positions I see in the mags.
Go to any newstand, and pick up 3-4 current fashion magazines that contain images of the fashion styles you've got in mind.
For commercial and beauty, you can also order (for free) the Neiman Marcus catalogue, which generalyl has top notch posing.
There are a lot of guidelines for posing for beauty and glamour, but fashion is entirely different, and there's a whole lot of ways to explain (and/or rationalize) what is done in the industry, but if you start with 10 poses pulled from your new collection of magazines, and work your way up from there, you'll be off to a decent start.
Pfiltz wrote:
Show them what you want by doing it yourself...
If you can't do it, how can you expect them to...
Well, when dealing with real models (ie, people with experience posing for still photography), they tend to know more than we do about posing, just as we know more about our cameras and photography than they do. In fact, it's kind of their job to know more than me, and be able to do things I can't - and if they aren't there, then I generally don't want to be using them on commercial shoots.
No doubt it was made with good intentions, but THOSE poses look so hokey and SO....forced. They remind me of "yoga guide for amateurs meets prom poses meets glamour poses for newbies meets drawing class guide meets contortionist."
Most of them are very "posed" looking. Is that what you really want?
For once I agree with Pfiltz when he wrote:
"Show them what you want by doing it yourself...
If you can't do it, how can you expect them to... "
Put another way, if YOU feel awkward in the pose, then what do you think the VIEWER of the photograph thinks when they see your pictures?
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And.. as for the advice to copy some poses found in a fashion mag?
I don't think that fits 90% of the posing situations I see on a forum like this.
So many people trying to be "fashion" photographers with ordinary people who have no clue about being a "fashion model."
Forcing a regular person into a "fashion" pose is just as ridiculous looking as those hokey poses in that guide. They look "stilted" "artificial" "forced" and "unnatural."
When you use the word "models" what do you really mean?
Are they really....I mean..REALLY..."models?"
Or are they regular folks who agreed to be photographed?
Define your INTENT and then it will narrow your choices of what is considered acceptable in the genre of photography.
And define your "model" too. Is it a 18 year old girl, a 50 year old woman, or a 21 year old man? It makes a difference.
IF you are trying to shoot a "high fashion" look...then many poses will not work.
Same if you are trying to photograph a business exec...you would not pick a "fashion" pose for a business woman.
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From my POV, if anyone has trouble with "Posing" then they need to spend more time observing people and less time with the camera gear.
Steady is definitely correct about posing non-models. And posing for beauty/glamour/commerical is entirely different from posing fashion models.
That said, I tend to be of the school that you really only do posing for fashion. For everything else (beauty/glamour/commercial/prom/wedding/etc), you want the subject to feel/be natural. You can give them an area to be in, and a guide for the direction of the light, but generally they have much more experience moving their bodies than you do. So let your subjects move naturally in a given position/spot. I'll sometimes show people how to roll back on a hip, or how to move arms out from their sides - but I won't place an arm, or position a leg to the millimeter.
I'll say things like "bring your leg in" or "turn to your left a bit, and eyes back to me" but I won't walk over and have them move their shoulders over to point A, and then use my finger to bring their eyes back to point B - that just gets SUPER posey, and rarely looks as good as natural movements.
I believe (in everything other than fashion) that it's my job to watch and capture a movement/position/gesture that looks beautiful and natural. So I have my subjects move, gently, and usually in slow(ish) motion - I describe it as how seaweed moves under water, and people generally get it right away. I then do my darnedest to relax the model and get them out of the headspace of 'photoshoot' and into the headspace of whatever look we're aiming for (silly/sexy/friendly/cute/beautiful/contemplative/sad/happy)....
But for models - for real, honest to goodness models - let them work, 'cause they're better than you at it. When you get a shot that's almost there, go back and reshoot the pose a number of times, fine-tuning it til you get it perfect (looking at things like hand position, head tilt, eyes..etc). That's the only time and only context in which I think posing is even desirable.
Oh, and I stand by the Neiman Marcus catalogue suggestion for beautiful, natural looking poses from some of the best, current, fashion inspired, but not 'uber fashiony' poses.
Those are both poses that I'm sure a lot of new model types could do (if they are at all body-suitable to beauty/fashion), and they'll look and be reasonably comfortable, while at the same time looking current and fashiony. And I'd be dollars to donuts that in both these shots the girl was moving into and through the pose, and the photographer actually capturing a moment, rather than the girls holding the pose and the photographer just clicking the shutter when the girl 'freezes' or poses.
Sythn asked for some specifics too, so here are some off the top of my head. PS - I see you are in Canada. If you're anywhere near Halifax, send me a PM, and I'd be happy to have you into the studio to watch me work with a model some time.
Posing suggestions for beauty/glamour:
Anything the girl has two of and bends should be at slightly different levels (shoulders, elbows, hips, writts, knees).
Arms always out from the body, if only a teenie bit - ie, she should never be able to hold a sheet of paper under her arm - there should always be enough room for it to fall away. This avoids pushing the tricept out and giving the 'fat arm' look, and also it means the perceptually, we see the 'width' of the model only being the torso, not the torso + the arms, which would subconsciously add at least 4-6 sizes to whatever the girl actually is.
When your subject is standing, you should always be able to kick out one leg, and not have her fall - that is to say, weight only on one foot (to avoid looking 'planted')
Avoid in most cases the straight on camera look. Turn feet off camera a bit, cock a hip a smidge, and come back to camera with chest/face if you want to shoot her face straight on - that will give a nicer curve to her side, and avoid the linebacker look.
Aways watch hand positioning. It is the hardest thing for models to learn and do well. Rarely have the backs of the hands facing the camera. Rarely have fists in the shot. This (and you may recognize the origin) is the perfect hand:
Side on, fingers relaxed. It's the hand you'll see in almost every cosmetics ad where a model brings a hand up to her face (check it yourself in your newly purchased magazines). =)
Hands should never press on the body. If the hand wants to be placed on the hip, cool, but treat everything the hand touches (from props to body parts) as if it were made of the most fragile crystal and would shatter of any pressure were applied)
If seated, rotate weight to the hip away from camera. And always sit out on the edge of the seat.
Watch out for random digits sticking out from bums or back of the head.
When looking off-camera, you typically don't want your subject's nose to poke out the side of the cheek. You also only want your subject to look 15-20 degrees off camera axis - less than you'd think normally, but only so far as if when they look back to camera with their eyes, the whites don't get all creepy.
Larger (fat) folks, shoot from a higher position. Often having them look up slightly to smooth out their double chin. Another lovely pose for larger girls is the chin in hands pose.
For shorter girls, shoot from low (get your own butt down), and shoot with a longer focal length - the compression and position will give the illusion of length.
For older women, or girls with bad skin, use the softest most direct (beauty) lighting you can get away with.
Shoot outside on cloudy days and don't include the sky in the shots - the soft light will almost always be more flattering to 'average' people then hard direct sun (very fashiony, but also very unforgiving).
For big noses, make sure that the nose doesn't extend out of the cheek.
Don't ever tell a model with big, beautiful eyes to 'open your eyes' (unbelievably I hear this a lot from my photo students).... yes, the eyes may be a very strong feature of a particular model, and as photographers we tend to be drawn to and focus on them - but in a beauty shot, wide eyes look more like dear-in-headlight eyes. Girls with gorgeous big eyes don't need to widen them even more. Instead, have your models narrow their eyes just a wee bit - as if they're trying to read a sign on the far wall with letters just a wee bit too small to see (but not so much as to squint - avoid the wrinkled forehead).
A slightly open mouth is generally better than a closed mouth (as long as teeth are good). Keep the toungue out of the shot.
Natural laughs and smiles are so much better than fake ones. But if you have to fake one, have the girl actually say, out loud, 'Hey', as if she were walking down the street and bumped into a friend she hadn't seen in months. Get her to actually think of such a friend, and every time she says Heyyyy, have her mentally imagine the scenerio. Her eyes will smile along with the mouth when doing this - and make a ton of difference.
Those are both poses that I'm sure a lot of new model types could do (if they are at all body-suitable to beauty/fashion), and they'll look and be reasonably comfortable, while at the same time looking current and fashiony. And I'd be dollars to donuts that in both these shots the girl was moving into and through the pose, and the photographer actually capturing a moment, rather than the girls holding the pose and the photographer just clicking the shutter when the girl 'freezes' or poses.
B
Thanks, I'm seeing more and more of these poses where the model is in this position - or even more extremely bent over. I'm trying to understand these poses: do they show the fashion more then a standard pose would? I certainly doesn't seem to highlight the model's beauty. Is this something that you have to understand in order to appreciate?
For example, I've been a big fan of the Xgame and extreme sports - and many people who haven't seen these guys do this their first response is "How dumb is that? , Why would anyone want to do that?" So, I'm wanting to understand where these poses are coming from.
But on a more serious note - what is the point of model photography as an amateur? Steady, I imagine is coming more from the angle of a portrait photographer who is trying to capture the essence of a particular person. As he says - you need to define your "Intent"
But if it just a question of photographing a pretty girl in glamour type poses I am not sure I can find much of a justification - which is why it does I suppose it does not interest me much.
