cineski wrote:
I got to play with a D1 500 at Samy's in Hollywood this weekend. These lights are fantastic minus 2 serious design flaws which I'll talk about later. The Air system works great, controls the new lights, but what will they do to tie these in to the recently added strobes like the 7B2 if you need to rent one? Or are all Profoto strobes getting the air system added with an update? Or at least a trigger module that you plug into the sync input? The lights were very well built, smooth and I was overly impressed......except for:
The bulb unit on this thing, as some people pointed out, was quite puzzling. The salesmen, while he admittedly didn't know much, was puzzled by it, too. He made some comment that Profoto passes on instructions that modification is required only when using beauty dishes. I was like, what? You're kidding. He just threw his arms up and shook his head. Apparently you have to remove the center disk on BD's for this to work. This built in reflector design negates the use of many modifiers from beauty dishes to soft boxes. It baffles my mind how Profoto could have designed this. I asked if there was an add-on that allowed you to get the bulb exposed and he had no idea. Oh, no PW backup with this system. There's no input. It's Air or nothing. However, the air seemed to work very well. I'd prefer a backup option, though....Show more →
are you sure about there being no input? there are two d1 series monolights: the d1 and the d1air....(one without the air system built in and one with air) ...if you are correct how does one sync the non-air model?...
the sync specs for the d1's read read "cable/ir/air" which one might assume would mean that a pw will work with the d1's as long as you use a sync cord....if this is not the case, then i agree there is a huge problem....
No PC cable. There's simply no plug. There is an Air Transeiver unit, but I don't know how it would hook up to the new lights, or if those are meant to make the old strobes compatible with the new system? I honestly don't know why Profoto did this. I will say, pro photographers know what works and what doesn't. With these lights, at these price points, these strobes are almost exclusively for pro photographers. I just can't see this design flying with 99% of lighting photographers. Unless they've tested and tested and when you slap a D1 w/ softbox next to a traditional Profoto head and there's absolutely no difference in light quality? In it's current form, the D1 will not work with a beauty dish.
I'm kinda in a quandry here. I'm looking to buy a whole new lighting system as I've outgrown my WL system (which I put up for sale locally). If the D1's had a normal bulb design, it would almost be a no brainer for me as the D1's are outstanding lights in all but those 2 aspects. Even the air system is amazing and simple to use (albeit NO backup). I'm still waiting for final specs for the Einsteins, but I'm so flipping sick of the WL light modifier attachment. It's worth it (from a Pro POV) paying double for a strobe that has a safe and easy to use modifier attachment. The WL modifier is just rickety crap IMO and for as long as I've owned the lights I've had to tip toe around set when using heavy modifiers. That takes away from creativity. However, I've read they made it stronger and the ability to hook a bare SLA battery up to it to run the strobes more than makes up for the flaws of the system.
More thoughts: Even if you could put a different glass diffuser on the end of the built in reflector, wouldn't it deaden the power of the strobe? 1000 w/s is not that powerful, and losing power wouldn't be good. Unless that reflector had some sort of magnifying ability? You can still put a traditional Profoto reflector on the unit if this was the case, so the use of grids wouldn't disappear. Oh, the guy at Samy's did say they'll be coming out with a mini grid system for the built in reflector, which makes me think this design is simply the way it is.
Now I'm looking at the original Compact Profoto units as possibilities to replace my WL system. If only I could take snippets of all strobes available and make the perfect strobe.
BKA, I'm only talking of the D1 air, as that's what they had in the store. Sorry for that confusion. I thought there was a mini input on the base of the light (there is a hole there) but the sales guy said there was no cable input on this unit (the 500 air). I'll assume that hole was for an allen screw for the mount. I asked about using a backup, and for the 2nd or 3rd time, he gave me a goofy "I don't know what they're thinking" look and threw his arms up in the air. Oh, edit, there's an Air Transiever unit available that I'm assuming will hook the non-air units up to your system. I can't say for sure, though. You won't be able to adjust the heat like the air system, but you'll be able to trigger.
That's so weird, page 3 of the brochure item #19 says "Synch socket, antenna and IR Lens"
I wonder if their floor models were missing the jack or something?
A frosted glass dome in front of the reflector shouldn't loose much more light than the normal frosted dome most people use on their heads to protect the tube, would it? It might be a hair less efficient because you've got more light bouncing around from the integrated reflector, versus the tube being right up against the glass.
Okay, I think I might have dug up an answer to these questions. On the Profoto website, there's a picture of a sync input (3.5?) near the handle. Apparently the salesman was wrong about this, thankfully, and I was blind when snooping around the strobe, because I don't remember seeing this at all (I'll blame it on my fiancee who was with me, she wanted to get outa there fast ;-). Check it out on page 3, #19:
There's also an "Optional Glass Cover" for more spread (#13). But it seems Jammy, you have a good point, much of the light is wasted this way because it's going through the built in reflector before hitting the glass cover, rather than the bare strobe bulb hitting it directly on all sides. However, I don't know how deep the bulb sits in the reflector. It may be right at the surface. I might have to make another trip to Samy's and see if they have a Glass Cover to add and if it effects light output. Hopefully these concerns will be proven to not be concerns at all.
Also looks like they have 3 glass covers. Normal, -600K, -300K. It would be great to see a 3200K glass cover. Also a Sync Cable D1. I have to say, without going back to Samy's yet, it looks like these strobes might just be 100% for me.
I predict that, not so many moons from now, Profoto will come out with a D1 version without the built-in flash tube...aka with the actual protruding style.
It will be marketed as "the studio option", opposed to "the travel option". Yeah, Profoto listens to their customers
cineski wrote:
an "Optional Glass Cover" for more spread (#13).
...doesn't sound like a standard protective or warming glass cover.
If it is designed to increase "spread" then it has to be a diffusion cover, in which you can expect a substantial loss of light if is to be evenly distributed throughout the box.
That's good news on the PC connect, but I'm still a bit flabbergasted by the reflector design.
So unlike Profoto.
I just called Profoto (very nice people) and they are calling me back with regards to how much wider the throw the dome cover will give. Confirmation that there's a PW input, and confirmation that there's a dedicated battery coming up, although the units will work with second party battery units.
What about wireless metering with a Sekonic meter? In other words, do we know if one can trigger the Air system with a pocketwizard (built into the Sekonic meter)? I'm assuming so, but it'd be nice to know for sure.
williamcarter wrote:
What about wireless metering with a Sekonic meter? In other words, do we know if one can trigger the Air system with a pocketwizard (built into the Sekonic meter)? I'm assuming so, but it'd be nice to know for sure.
Consider Profoto and PW a closed book. PW syncs with PW and no other radio system. I would be flabbergasted if the Profoto Air synced with PW because that is HIGHLY unlikely. Shame that they had to go the Air route, built in PW would have made these so much better.
But presumably there's going to be some way to do wireless metering, yes? I'm not clear on what that way will be. Are the folks currently using the new Profoto Pro 8 Air using their meters with a sync cable?
(I realize this isn't a huge deal; I'm just trying to get a fuller picture of the details).
That wouldn't work; the light could be in a position where pushing the test button on the back of the light is impossible to do while trying to position the meter where it needs to be (e.g., if the light is 10 feet away from the model's face).
I guess the logical hack would be to use the test button on the Air Remote to fire the strobe while standing in the position from which you want to meter. But that requires you to have the Air Remote as opposed to, say, running the Profoto software on your laptop to control the lights wirelessly (which is what I would do).
cineski wrote:
Probably hitting the test button on the air to pop the flash? Maybe Air will have a Sekonic meter module?
I was talking about pushing it on the air transmitter. Not the strobe itself. Even taking a look at the video on the D1 page shows the photographer popping the strobes with the air transmitter, interspersed with shots of metering with a Sekonic.
Oh, I forgot, Profoto called back and nobody seems to have an answer to the glass bulb and how it effects spread. It does spread the light out, but as to how much there's no answer. They said for most uses, the standard setup is fine. Can't really imagine that. He's trying to find out a definitive answer and said he'd let me know.
I downloaded and perused the D1 pamphlet. They are certainly coy about that inbuilt reflector: barely a mention, no closeups. In contrast, the back end gets plenty of attention. They do mention the use of modifiers, including their BD (god knows how that's going to work). Not selling my packs yet.
cineski wrote:
Oh, I forgot, Profoto called back and nobody seems to have an answer to the glass bulb and how it effects spread.
I was somewhat perplexed at Profoto's reasoning for the built-in reflector, but figured they must know what they are doing. To now hear they have no explanation is not reassuring.
The most plausible explanation I've heard so far is that they were designed after Broncolor's sexy little Picolite. But those lamps were designed for "table top and mobile work" and needed adaptors to work with many modifiers.
There are a few guys here that have used or owned Picolites, maybe they can speak to the limitations of a built-in reflector, if any.
I have not used them myself but I have to admit the resemblance is striking:
Carmen Miranda wrote:
I was somewhat perplexed at Profoto's reasoning for the built-in reflector, but figured they must know what they are doing. To now hear they have no explanation is not reassuring.
you do have to remember that when you call profoto here in the u.s that you are actually talking to a distributor (mac group) ....there is often a lag in when information is announced and released from profoto and when the distributors is given all the information. this is not meant to be an excuse (my experience has been that the mac group folks are very helpful and responsive with repsect to all the products they rep) but rather a possible reason that there appears to be "no explanation."
Keep us posted. 