fredmiranda.com
Login

Moderated by: Fred Miranda
  New fredmiranda.com Mobile Site
  New Feature: SMS Notification alert
  New Feature: Buy & Sell Watchlist
  

FM Forums | Canon Forum | Join Upload & Sell

1       2       3              10              12       13       end
  

Archive 2009 · 5DII failures on LL Antarctic trip

  
 
philber
Offline
• • • • • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.11 #1 · 5DII failures on LL Antarctic trip


Fact is, based on posts here, there are now hundreds of 5DIIs in the hands of FMers. It is winter for most of them, and the failure is nowhere close, not even remotely close to the catastrophic rate during the LL cruise. So level-headed failure analysis indicates that there must have been something other than "just" rainy conditions or temperature at play during this cruise.
It could be condensation, as some have suggested. It might be salt. My own guess is that it could be a combination of factors (temperature, condensation, humidity, salt) which explains why so many failed.
The fact that, on a previous cruise, other Canon cameras also failed goes some way to show that there may be environmental conditions that Canon don't take into account at the design stage whereas Nikon do. But they seem to be rather infrequent, else the Canadian Canonites for example, who are out shooting their 5DII right now in very cold conditions, would have reported droves of failures.
I think that it is good to discuss this issue, as (1) it can help owners stay out of trouble, and (2) it can "encourage" Canon to do something about it.
On the other hand, broadly trashing the 5DII because of this highly specific set of conditions, or Canon and all its products is not a rational conclusion.
Just my 2 cents.



Feb 09, 2009 at 07:17 AM
RunningBrave
Offline

Upload & Sell: Off
p.11 #2 · 5DII failures on LL Antarctic trip


Very interesting thread - lots of info (and anecdotes) to digest and consider. I'll add a few of my own here:

1) as noted above, many 5DII's are out there working just fine in the dead of winter, so it's not simply a "cold" issue. I happily use mine (as well as my 40D and 50D) in temperatures down into the -35C range without any camera difficulty. Freeze my fingers off, mind you, but no camera issues other than batteries that don't last as long as at room temperature. I admit that I don't always even protect against condensation, and still (knock on wood) no issues whatsoever. Probably have shot upwards of 10,000 frames on those cameras in sub-freezing weather by now. Mind you, "it's a dry cold"....

2) There was mention of the conditions not being much different than weddings in London or New York (or various other places). That may be true for the air temperature and precipitation factors, but I'll hazard a guess that very few weddings involve a scramble into a Zodiac from a ship, motoring ashore across a frigid salty and choppy bay, and then a second scramble ashore from there. Salt water tracks everywhere. If you've touched the boarding ladder or grabbed a rope, either with gloves on or without, then you've got salt on you. Touching your camera after that continues to spread the salt around, and in my experience, brine and electronics do not play well together. Before my last career change, I skippered a 52-foot schooner a fair bit in the North Atlantic, and I will say that we certainly had to be careful, even with "Marine-grade" electronics, with salt spray. And if the electronics were only listed as "Waterproof" (and not Marine grade), they often failed eventually. Weather-proof or weather-resistant simply just doesn't cut it in a marine environment - if you use it long enough in those conditions, it will fail. Admittedly, as a 5DII owner I would hope that "long enough" would have been longer than a few hours or a few days, but you never know....

3) my mother, aunt, and uncle recently came back from an Antarctic trip with a group of friends. They are not avid photographers, and judging by their photos and EXIF data, their entire group was using simple P&S cameras (Panasonic Lumix, Nikon Coolpix, and Canon Powershots). Apparently not a single failure among them, despite similar weather conditions (within a few degrees of freezing every day, with snow, sleet and/or rain depending on the temperature). None of them did anything like protecting their camera from condensation, none of them used rain covers, and none of them changed lenses (obviously). I wonder how much of a factor those things have as well, especially the anti-condensation measures and lens changes.


Overall, I agree it's important to discuss the issue to help other owners stay out of trouble and identify situations/measures to avoid, and hopefully "encourage" Canon to improve on future bodies. But I've bought my camera already, and it continues to have abilities that far exceed those of the person holding it. It does what it says it is supposed to do, and even goes well beyond the specified operating temperatures in my circumstances. If it could also handle marine environments for extended periods, that would be an awesome (and rather remarkable) capability, but happily that's not what I bought it for.

My $0.02.



Feb 09, 2009 at 08:25 AM
Andi Dietrich
Offline
[X]
p.11 #3 · 5DII failures on LL Antarctic trip


Built quality is a real dealkiller, but so far I dont see that the MK II is much worse than the MK I.


Feb 09, 2009 at 09:21 AM
Will Patterson
Offline
• • • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.11 #4 · 5DII failures on LL Antarctic trip


I'll also add that my old 5D classic stood up to EXTREME humidity changes and condensation in Aruba when we were there for a week on vacation.

Every day I would grab the camera that was in our 70* air conditioned room and immediately on the other side of our hotel room door it was 95* and 90% humidity. The door itself was solid hard wood and there was constantly beads of condensation dripping down the door, so much so that it sometimes screwed up the door lock thing where you had to swipe your card in it to get in the door. Anyway, my camera would instantly start fogging over and there would be beads of condensation dripping down the camera all over, it was drenched. If we stopped by downstairs to get some food on our way out I remember using the cloth napkin to wipe my camera down because it was wet. I had to wait a good half hour before I could see throught the viewfinder and lens to take some photos. I did this a few times a day for 7 days without an issue.



Feb 09, 2009 at 09:45 AM
orangefirefish
Offline
• • • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.11 #5 · 5DII failures on LL Antarctic trip


Well- so many reports on the durability of the 5d- maybe there is something that us less extreme users don't know yet about the 5dII?


Feb 09, 2009 at 10:05 AM
ovredal73
Offline
• • • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.11 #6 · 5DII failures on LL Antarctic trip


My 5d2 has been out in the cold Norwegian winter every day since I got it and no failure in sight. Also it was dunked in snow completely as I fell on it, smashed it against ice with the weight of my falling body on top of it and not a scratch in sight. When I stood back up it looked like a snowball.

I am impressed by mine.



Feb 09, 2009 at 10:10 AM
Mike Mahoney
Offline
• • • • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.11 #7 · 5DII failures on LL Antarctic trip


philber wrote:
So level-headed failure analysis indicates that there must have been something other than "just" rainy conditions or temperature at play during this cruise.


Good point. If the failure rate of all 5DMKII's was anywhere near the Antarctic trip experience we would certainly have heard about it.

These type of photo excursions often have the whole group shooting the same scene .. most likely many were exposed to the same condition that caused the failures.

And some of these issues seem downright extra-terrestrial in nature .. like the "spontaneous cracking" of the LCD. Beam me up Scotty.



Feb 09, 2009 at 10:17 AM
bogatyr
Offline
• • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.11 #8 · 5DII failures on LL Antarctic trip


I have examined a 5D II briefly. Its build quality is heads and shoulders above entry level albeit not as fantastically high as my 1D II and 1D III bodies, and it would surprise me greatly if it has consistent problems in inclement weather. I can see that it would probably not tolerate long periods of rain, but a splash or two would be resisted - as would dust and dirt.

I have considered buying a 5D II for landscapes, but in the end I will probably save up for a 16-MP Full Frame 1D IV. After all, there is nothing to compare to the 1D series' handling, metering, AF or build. But I dare say that the 5D II approaches the 1D-series and is clearly an improvement in all respects upon the original 5D.

Bogatyr



Feb 09, 2009 at 10:35 AM
chez
Offline
• • • • • • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.11 #9 · 5DII failures on LL Antarctic trip


The bottom line with all this is that the last few trips to the Antarctic, Canon cameras failed while Nikon cameras kept shooting. They were all shot under the same conditions, all transported over the water the same way and all brought back to the ship the same way. It is clear to me that Nikon has a better weather sealing system in place. It sure would be nice if Canon paid a little more attention to this aspect of their system rather than concentrating solely on pixels. I know the 5DII is not a 1-series camera...but it could have been weather sealed without much cost. The D300 and D700 are and don't cost anymore. The 5DII is a good landscape camera and with some decent weather sealing, it could have been a great landscape camera.


Feb 09, 2009 at 10:55 AM
orangefirefish
Offline
• • • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.11 #10 · 5DII failures on LL Antarctic trip


Well, it still is a good landscape camera- just as long as you're not shooting the land from on the ocean in the rain. And who knows- maybe afterwards, the D700s and the other Nikons died a slow and painful death at home from hidden corrosion...?


Feb 09, 2009 at 11:05 AM
GregM5
Offline
• •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.11 #11 · 5DII failures on LL Antarctic trip


I haven't read everything about the Canon camera failures on the Antarctic trip, but I haven't seen anyone mention lenses. I would think the people on the expedition would know better... but is it possible the Canon users that had issues were using lenses that weren't weather sealed?

As far as I know, only the ones listed here are "weather proof":

16-35mm 2.8 L USM
17-40mm 4L USM
24-70mm 2.8 L USM
24-105mm 4 L IS USM
70-200mm 2.8 L IS USM
300mm 2.8L IS USM
400mm 2.8L IS USM
400mm 4 DO IS USM
500mm 4 L IS USM
600mm 4 L IS USM



Feb 09, 2009 at 12:57 PM
orangefirefish
Offline
• • • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.11 #12 · 5DII failures on LL Antarctic trip


Well only a handful of Nikon lenses are "weather sealed"- and I'm not just talking about a rubber gasket at the mount- in fact more Canon lenses have sealing.


Feb 09, 2009 at 01:07 PM
vbourrut
Offline
• •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.11 #13 · 5DII failures on LL Antarctic trip


GregM5 wrote:
I haven't read everything about the Canon camera failures on the Antarctic trip, but I haven't seen anyone mention lenses. I would think the people on the expedition would know better... but is it possible the Canon users that had issues were using lenses that weren't weather sealed?

As far as I know, only the ones listed here are "weather proof":

16-35mm 2.8 L USM
17-40mm 4L USM
24-70mm 2.8 L USM
24-105mm 4 L IS USM
70-200mm 2.8 L IS USM
300mm 2.8L IS USM
400mm 2.8L IS USM
400mm 4 DO IS USM
500mm 4 L IS USM
600mm 4 L IS USM


I think you can add the new 200mm f2 L to the list can't you ?



Feb 09, 2009 at 01:20 PM
Mike Mahoney
Offline
• • • • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.11 #14 · 5DII failures on LL Antarctic trip


chez wrote:
The bottom line with all this is that the last few trips to the Antarctic, Canon cameras failed


Given the number of users in the Antarctic I guess that's a chance Canon is willing to take.



Feb 09, 2009 at 01:24 PM
chez
Offline
• • • • • • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.11 #15 · 5DII failures on LL Antarctic trip


Mike Mahoney wrote:
Given the number of users in the Antarctic I guess that's a chance Canon is willing to take.


Yes, but the conditions at the Antarctic at the time of the failure occur all over this globe. Nothing to do with cold at all. It had everything to do with moisture. The west coast ( PNW and Canadian west coast ) exhibits those exact same conditions for 80% of the year. Everyone seems to think it was the extreme cold that caused the problems, but far from it. Moisture was the enemy and moisture happens all over the world.



Feb 09, 2009 at 01:29 PM
bobbytan
Offline
• • • • • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.11 #16 · 5DII failures on LL Antarctic trip


I think the 5D II is much better than the 5D, although it is certainly not built like the 1 series. I am not planning on a trip to the Antarctica or be at the desert when it's 120º either, so my 5D II will serve me just fine. If you want the IQ of the 5D II in a well-sealed body, go get the D3X which is one heck of a camera - THE best DSLR that money can buy (for now) period.

Andi Dietrich wrote:
Built quality is a real dealkiller, but so far I dont see that the MK II is much worse than the MK I.




Feb 09, 2009 at 01:35 PM
thedigitalbean
Offline
• • • • •
Upload & Sell: On
p.11 #17 · 5DII failures on LL Antarctic trip


chez wrote:
Yes, but the conditions at the Antarctic at the time of the failure occur all over this globe. Nothing to do with cold at all. It had everything to do with moisture. The west coast ( PNW and Canadian west coast ) exhibits those exact same conditions for 80% of the year. Everyone seems to think it was the extreme cold that caused the problems, but far from it. Moisture was the enemy and moisture happens all over the world.


True, but there are lots of people living in those areas who are buying 5D2s or are at least buying Canons. If the failure rate of these cameras is as dismal in these areas as it has been in Antarctica (i.e. ~25%) you can bet the forums would be filled with people screaming bloody murder. They aren't, so the question is why. Is it because the cameras aren't failing in these other areas? Is it because there's yet another factor we haven't considered for Antarctica? Is it the because the people living in these areas aren't using their cameras like the people on a once in a lifetime Antarctica trip? I don't know the answers to these question, what I suspect is that the answers aren't simple.



Feb 09, 2009 at 01:36 PM
jerrykur
Offline
• • • •
Upload & Sell: On
p.11 #18 · 5DII failures on LL Antarctic trip


FretNoMore wrote:
Personally I think that any camera should be able to take a light drizzle or heavy mist at least, what good is it if all you can do is shoot indoors or in California?

Anyway, given the well-known state of things I'd not go on that trip with anything other than 1D/1Ds cameras, that would be the right tools for the environment.


But the 1dsMk2s failed in 2007 in the same numbers as the 5DMK2s in 2009. This is not a 1 series vs 5 Series. It is a Canon issue.





Feb 09, 2009 at 01:43 PM
bobbytan
Offline
• • • • • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.11 #19 · 5DII failures on LL Antarctic trip


chez wrote:
Yes, but the conditions at the Antarctic at the time of the failure occur all over this globe. Nothing to do with cold at all. It had everything to do with moisture. The west coast ( PNW and Canadian west coast ) exhibits those exact same conditions for 80% of the year. Everyone seems to think it was the extreme cold that caused the problems, but far from it. Moisture was the enemy and moisture happens all over the world.


In Asia, humidity can exceed 90% during the summer. So maybe those living in Hong Kong, Philippines and Singapore should buy Nikon instead of Canon?



Feb 09, 2009 at 01:44 PM
Mike Mahoney
Offline
• • • • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.11 #20 · 5DII failures on LL Antarctic trip


chez wrote:
Moisture was the enemy and moisture happens all over the world.


Then why not similar high failure rates reported in other areas?



Feb 09, 2009 at 01:55 PM
1       2       3              10              12       13       end




FM Forums | Canon Forum | Join Upload & Sell

1       2       3              10              12       13       end
    
 

Welcome back
Log in to your account