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Archive 2009 · Anyone can Trace

  
 
ksmahgrts
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p.4 #1 · Anyone can Trace


again i'll ask - why can't you say these things under your real identity? critique is most successful when it's honest... authentic... i just think the pretense of this thread is silly. this topic coming from a seasoned pro like a tony or a maurice or a newbie with genuine interest like deb strikes a chord and provides opportunity for discussion... coming from an anonymous grumbler it's just pointless trolling. i'm sure the "conscience" moniker is pure coincidence, right?

it's the same negative energy that gets bandied about when we have a 4-page long thread about uncle bob and aunt matilda.

is copying lame? yup.

are the amazing photographers who have their work duplicated man (woman) enough to step up and say 'hey. quit copying my stuff.'? i'm sure they are.



Jan 10, 2009 at 02:41 AM
Sam Hassas
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p.4 #2 · Anyone can Trace


conscience, PM sent. Take care.

`Sam



Jan 10, 2009 at 03:44 AM
Marcus Watts
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p.4 #3 · Anyone can Trace


conscience224 wrote:
the only reason people are getting upset is it hits close to home. Many on this forum think its normal to copy and do so on a regular basis. This thread would have been ignored if it hadn't struck a tune. Also I never said everyone on here is a hack. Many are very talented and helpful photographers. Its the ones that even maurice talked about that I have a problem with.


The only reason you say those things is because no one give you kudos for your work. Just jealousy.

How's life on the island?



Jan 10, 2009 at 04:56 AM
conscience224
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p.4 #4 · Anyone can Trace


So telling others to stop copying means I am jealous, that logic doesn't even make sense? Maybe its just unhealthy for the community to think its ok. The more people that protest shows its an epidemic in our industry.

What makes you think I have posted my work?



Jan 10, 2009 at 05:05 AM
Tad Killian
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p.4 #5 · Anyone can Trace


nothing


Jan 10, 2009 at 05:22 AM
Marcus Watts
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p.4 #6 · Anyone can Trace


conscience224 wrote:
So telling others to stop copying means I am jealous, that logic doesn't even make sense? Maybe its just unhealthy for the community to think its ok. The more people that protest shows its an epidemic in our industry.

What makes you think I have posted my work?


Your I.P.



Jan 10, 2009 at 05:26 AM
Bella Basore
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p.4 #7 · Anyone can Trace


Hello All,
I've never taken wedding pictures...or any pictures for that matter.

(i'm newer than a noob! but joined FM to support my husband in his hobby, and to learn a thing or two for myself...but now I'm scared! lol)

My point of view would come in as a consumer. Not only can photographers access all of your wonderful photos, so can consumers. If I see a photo somewhere online, in my girlfriend's wedding album, or in a wedding magazine and like it, I would quite probably request a similar image.

What comes to mind for me is the "movement" if you will, of selective coloring. I would have to guess someONE started doing this...and others copied? followed? to make it as trendy as it became. So I guess my thought is, if I (the consumer) wanted a photo that copied someone's style that I saw and liked...should the photographer refer me to the someONE who was first attributed with this type of style/idea, (out of respect) or should he/she take my money and give me what I want?

My husband's avatar is a shot he worked hard to capture, and it is copying "a technique developed by Harold "Doc" Edgerton in the late 1930's?" Was that wrong of him? I also know he has great friends on here who generously, and willingly taught and inspired some "out of the box" experimenting for him (among other techniques). I just know he's learned a lot here and had great fun doing so, while being mentored by some really wonderful people. Which did lead to him finding his own way.

Perhaps my thought is way off base or too convoluted to understand, forgive me if so. I just feel that wedding photography is above all else, a business, and good business is providing they consumer what they want...and that may be something they've seen done by a fellow photographer.

Best wishes,
Bella











Jan 10, 2009 at 09:53 AM
McGrattan
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p.4 #8 · Anyone can Trace


Marcus Watts wrote:
Your I.P.


oh snap



Jan 10, 2009 at 10:08 AM
radioblurs
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p.4 #9 · Anyone can Trace


EltonTeng wrote:
are you sure Hassy's gone?



can't be hassy

.............................not..............................enough.............................periods...............................



Jan 10, 2009 at 10:24 AM
asimsoofi
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p.4 #10 · Anyone can Trace


True originality is almost impossible to obtain. Anything proclaimed as original can be traced back to a previous idea, and if given enough time, can likely be traced back to another. At the end, we all are imitators by nature and I have not come across anything original in my life that was not conceptualized before. Two persons can have similar ideas independently, however, whoever screams it the loudest is heard first and is always rare.

This thread is unoriginal in itself. There have been, and always will be critics and thinkers of this very philosophy of originality, especially if there is questionable motivation involved. In my experience, it can stem from a void in the self, but this not isolated to the original poster, but a human condition within us. Some choose to voice it and others never question it. We are our worst enemies in so many ways!

It would be a waste to question the OP's motivation though, but rather better to try and understand it. It is after all a genuine thought on his/her part, something they are struggling to understand and by posting here, is merely reaching out in his/her own way. Looking past what appears to be jealousy, I believe he/she is looking for some accountability from those the OP may feel receive praise for their work. He/she has set a high level of expectation from himself, and feels others should demand the same. Unfortunately, consciousness is just as difficult to define as the escape of originality; we will never know enough to define either.

At the end, it may be just a personal dilemma that we all face in our lives; recognition. How can anyone be praised, when his or her work is truly not original, yet more inspired or imitated?

Well there is an old saying; "There is nothing new under the sun." If there were only one answer to satisfy the OP, it would be that praise received is for mere execution and not originality.

As humans, our range limits us. There will always be only a few with original thought and ideas, and we refer to those as genius. Unfortunately, the likelihood of finding one amongst us will be extremely rare if none at all. There is no one here that is truly genius or original by definition, but fantastic executioners.

At the end, the OP will not be satisfied with any answers anyone may argue, just as we all will never fully be satisfied with our works either. This is a struggle for the OP to understand and overcome. The battle is his/her own self, just as we have many of our own.

With that I say, grab a camera, a 50mm prime, and go shoot something original.

/asim




Jan 10, 2009 at 11:08 AM
mineymole
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p.4 #11 · Anyone can Trace


You know we here shoot weddings. Brides and grooms have lists of shots they want. The venues are often very similar. Churches are designed pretty much the same way. Brides still walk up the aisles. Limos are still used. Bouquets are still thrown. People get drunk at receptions. Napkins are either brown, pink, white, blue... and the list goes on.

So I don't know if I have seen anyone's work look deliberately copied. There are similarities, yes. And maybe lurking in the back of the mind is some shot that you've seen.

I'm new to this. I thought I was being really original. I shot rings on a Christmas tree. Some hanging like ornaments. Some with the rings stuck on the branches of the trees. My bride loved them. And you know what? I was looking around here AFTER I shot that wedding and I saw the same type of shot from someone else.

I didn't copy them. They didn't copy me (that's for sure!). But because of the given circumstance - we're both shooting weddings at Christmas - voila! There you have it. Work that is crushingly similar. Nothing original about it.

I want to THANK each and every person who has the NERVE to post work here. It takes guts. Whether you're seasoned or just beginning. And I really appreciate the feedback given to me, even when I ask a stupid newbie I-should-already-know-the-answer-if-I'm-shooting-someone's-wedding questions. And you know what else? I don't mind if I stroke a few egos. There are really good photographers here. And yes, sometimes their work isn't original. But it's still very very very good -- and they have the GUTS to show their work.

'Nuf said.

Diane



Jan 10, 2009 at 12:57 PM
cre55107
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p.4 #12 · Anyone can Trace


DIane

very well put : )



Jan 10, 2009 at 01:10 PM
Evan Baines
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p.4 #13 · Anyone can Trace


asimsoofi wrote:
True originality is almost impossible to obtain. Anything proclaimed as original can be traced back to a previous idea, and if given enough time, can likely be traced back to another. At the end, we all are imitators by nature and I have not come across anything original in my life that was not conceptualized before. Two persons can have similar ideas independently, however, whoever screams it the loudest is heard first and is always rare.

This thread is unoriginal in itself. There have been, and always will be critics and thinkers of this very philosophy of originality, especially if there
...Show more

Nice post!



Jan 10, 2009 at 04:05 PM
miccullen
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p.4 #14 · Anyone can Trace


asimsoofi wrote:
True originality is almost impossible to obtain. Anything proclaimed as original can be traced back to a previous idea, and if given enough time, can likely be traced back to another. At the end, we all are imitators by nature and I have not come across anything original in my life that was not conceptualized before.


Spot on.



Jan 10, 2009 at 04:07 PM
Lord Fluff
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p.4 #15 · Anyone can Trace


mineymole wrote:
Okay so I'm a total newbie here....

But...

Wedding photography is a commercial venture. Let's be honest. Nobody goes into it for only the "art" of it.


Erm, actually I did. Not that I object to being paid, but I fell in love with the possibility inherent in wedding photography, so pretty much do it for it's own ends. The rewards for me are in seeing what work I've produced. I could make a lot more money doing my old job, but only do enough of that to ensure the bills are paid.

But anyway, everyone copies everyone since photography was invented. Pick your favourite photographer and you'll find they emulated others too. The difference being that if you're good you get bored of emulating and go off on tangents, and in so doing discover your own style.



Jan 10, 2009 at 05:45 PM
mineymole
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p.4 #16 · Anyone can Trace


Don't get me wrong Lord Fluff, art is definitely there. But art in search of commerce is always and interesting issue. I like to think of myself as a documentarian. And when you have a nice couple it does make you feel good to give them images they will have forever.



Jan 10, 2009 at 06:54 PM
Marcus Watts
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p.4 #17 · Anyone can Trace


asimsoofi wrote:
It would be a waste to question the OP's motivation though, but rather better to try and understand it. It is after all a genuine thought on his/her part, something they are struggling to understand and by posting here,




Some great thoughts in your post but disagree on this one. The op doesn't just damn the direct copying of images but the techniques used as well. Therefore the guy is either a fool or playing the fool.

It's this over the top silliness that demonstrates he is more about wanting to either get a reaction or let some of the better members here know that they are not as good as they (and everyone else) seems to think they are. This is clearly the subtext and the only reason a small man ever wants to cut a big man down is because he thinks he is as good but just isn't getting the recognition for it.

There is likely a troll element where behind the protection of a computer screen the op sits giggleing like a school girl everytime he reads a new post.

If the original post had been both balanced and less attacking then perhaps his thoughts would merit some level of respect. As it is it comes off as been written by some punk 15 year old with a chip on his shoulder. Certainly no one over the age of 20 would behave that way.



Jan 10, 2009 at 11:00 PM
Jimsokay
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p.4 #18 · Anyone can Trace


Maybe the OP can't replicate the one's he wants to?

I'm not such a much, but I replicate no one that I'm aware of.



Jan 10, 2009 at 11:35 PM
louloulou
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p.4 #19 · Anyone can Trace


"That terrible mood of depression of whether it’s any good or not is what is known as The Artist’s Reward." - Ernest Hemingway

Probably for off topic reasons, but I'm glad you posted this quote Brian.

Thank you.



Jan 11, 2009 at 12:58 AM
conscience224
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p.4 #20 · Anyone can Trace


The folks that internalized this and came out defensive did so for a reason. I have learned much from this thread. Thank you to those that have put a lot of thought into their responses. I was just hoping that somehow through dialogue we would better police some of these undersirable elements out of our culture.

What I have learned.

1. Its acceptable to copy in wedding photography. Maybe one of the reasons that most of the eductional photographers view us as the bottom of the barrel. I saw a few responses talking about when you end up at the same conclusion as another photographer and take the same shot as them by the nature of the same things happen at many weddings. These photojournalistic shots are not what I am talking about. Its the setup shots where you copy everything from posing, lighting, and location and then process the photo like someone else. We all know what shots these are when we see them. I just never see anyone say anything to the poster.

A few other items that I beleive are similar but get the same its natural to copy and its ok from most.
1. Putting copyrighted music on your site.
2. Undercutting the industry by offering photography services for less than it takes to make a living at.
3. Taking jobs that you are unqualified for faking it till you make it.
4. Figuring out everyway under the sun to not pay the appropriate amount of taxes. Not paying use tax and sales tax.

There is nothing new under the sun is not true. There is a world of possibilities at every wedding. Different locations. Shotting from different angles with different lenses. Finally look at all the things you can do with post processing. Even a black and white shot can be processed in photoshop so many different ways they can't all be listed. Now tell me with all of these variables there is nothing new under the sun.

For many of you there isn't. All you have to do is something original put some thought into it. Stop using actions and presets that make your work look like someone elses. Make your own. Shoot your own textures.

Carry on...





Jan 11, 2009 at 01:33 AM
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