First, a disclaimer -- I'm not wanting to be a full-time wedding photog. It's extremely nerve wracking and lots of work
I would, though, like to become a "budget" wedding photographer, as perhaps a side job. So far, all of my work is through word-of-mouth, and I think I'll keep it that way. I'm sure many of you will scoff at this idea, but believe it or not there are many people that just can't afford $2000+ wedding photographers and aren't looking for the Ultra-Mega wedding picture package. I just wish to provide high-quality images at affordable prices. I can do my own high-quality prints for customers. My clients (usually young military) absolutely love the idea, and so far are impressed with images.
My question, though -- How does one get experience in wedding photography? Or how should *I* get experience? While my clients like what I do, I know I can do much better. I guess I have a more trained "photographer eye" and so I see things I should have done, etc. etc.
I have heard people say they are 2nd shooters for weddings -- but how does one go about doing this? Do you just call other area wedding photogs and offer to be a 2nd (or 3rd) camera for free? You provide images for free, and you get to keep images for experience and training?
Any tips on started out would be great.
I fear I may not have the gear to be a full-time wedding photog, which is fine, but maybe with a few more jobs I will move to full-frame. I'm not in a rush, though, as I said this is more of a side-thing. Photography is a hobby, and I don't wish to turn into a profession. I will probably never advertise, as I don't want to confuse potential customers into thinking I'm a pro shooter.
But any constructive tips on gaining wedding experience is greatly appreciated! Thank you.
Well concerning your second shooter question... yes, just call or email someone. Although you might want to start by asking to be an assistant first.
Concerning the rest of your post:
Budget shooting as a side job sounds like a good idea. And there is definitely a market for it. But the problem is that one of a few things will inevitably happen:
1) You'll get good and realize that you can actually make some real money if you want to,
2) You'll realize that things like fast lenses and paying taxes are a necessity and you need to make more money to have that happen
3) You'll realize that the $500 you're making per wedding isn't worth the hours you're putting into your work, especially since you have another job
I'm not saying that you're wrong, only that if you want to do things right (like pay taxes), and you want to be good (since it's the most important day in your client's lives) then it's tough to justify that as a plan with long term success.
Tony gave you a wonderful, reasoned reply.
Back when I had a studio, I'd have at least on person a week just like you stop by. They were willing to work for free, just for the experience. I guess if I was smart I should have made them pay me!
Frankly, I wasn't interested. I'm at a wedding to do a job, not answer a myriad of questions from some noob who wants to break into the business. The best assistant I ever had was our secretary. She needed to earn a little extra money and was not interested in becoming a photographer. She did exactly what I wanted her to do without a thousand questions. I taught her enough photography to be the second shooter for the few times it was necessary, such as the bouquet toss to get two different angles.
There's another problem with your business plan. I'm not sure how much you charge or plan to charge, but if there's a Craigslist in your area you might want to check it out. In some areas there's a plethora of photographers aiming at your customer demographic, but they are offering to shoot the wedding free for the experience!
Concerning equipment, you can't creep into being prepared to adequately photograph a wedding. You've should to have a minimum of gear including adequate backups of essentials. I shot medium format film and never went to a wedding with less than four bodies and three flash units.
Every couple you're hoping to help has a couple of Uncle Bobs lying around. If they can't afford coverage from a qualified professional, I think they'll actually get better results from an Uncle Bob or two than from a dabbler.
The biggest market if you did a survey in many areas is the $1000 market. So the $500 shooters automatically compete with each other over a smaller pie.
Even though you say many cannot afford $2000 this is a myth, believe that or not. If you ask people they will tell you they only have a particular budget but only because they have no sense of the value of the end product. That is until they see the photos.
So if i were you i would offer a $1000 package and that entails $600 for your time and cost on the day and $400 credit.
Nothing on your reorder price list should be less than $20.
Now if the couple cannot afford more than the initial money they have spent they will still walk away with some lovely wedding shots if you learn the craft well. However you are more likely to find that they will find money for more pics and an album if they love the shots.
An inexperienced guy can spend weeks doing basic edits on the shots after a wedding. That's when you'll feel like you've been suckered if there is not a reasonable reward for your effort. You see the other big myth is that wedding photographers work one day and stick a couple of grand in their pocket. In fact most don't start to see light at the end of the tunnel until they get north of $2000 for their photography because it is very hard work, after the day.
Lots of newbies start out thinking the way you do, not attacking you for that but i don't think you will find any experienced photographers telling you chasing the budget wedding is a good idea.
Like anything do it properly and do the math.
Rule number 76 my friend, remember rule number 76.
When I started out this was me, to a t... I did "budget" weddings for people I wanted to really help out who couldn't afford a mega expensive photographer... What I soon came to realize was most of these budget shopped could spend all sorts of cash on other elements of the wedding. The reason they couldn't "afford" a mega priced photographer was because the VALUE they put on their wedding photos was very low. Anyone with a camera would do as far as they were concerned, as long as they were under their photography budget.
I remember getting slammed in email from full time photogs whose bread and butter depended on the market not becoming over saturated with a less expensive weekend warrior like I was lol. While I believe we all market to different clients for sure here are a few things that made me increase my pricing....
- My budget brides are almost always my most demanding, least appreciative clients. Once they've locked in their low rate they often want to hand me a list of shots, accompanied by some unreasonable demands.
- My TIME with family and friends is more valuable that I originally imagined. There is a lot of work other than shooting that goes into giving someone great wedding photos...
- Like Tony mentioned to do it right I was always needing new gear, having to do 3 weddings for a new lens got old, FAST!
The number one reason however.... WHY DO DOUBLE OR TRIPLE THE AMOUNT OF WORK for the same pay? Charge what your worth. You'll be rewarded with more time, nicer venues & clients who will respect you as a professional....
I pestered a fairly good size studio until one of their photographers allow me to tag along holding light sticks, cameras, bags etc...sorta like a mule. I did this & learned almost every week for a year before doing my first very very small wedding and with help ... now and then, I shoot for that studio for very cheap if they need me as a way to thank them for their help.
Ask for it, worst case? they turn you down, ask again till you get it.
ARDENT wrote:
- My TIME with family and friends is more valuable that I originally imagined. There is a lot of work other than shooting that goes into giving someone great wedding photos...
This is what lead me to change careers. My boys were growing up and I was hearing about their milestones second hand instead of being there to see and participate.
We all have different priorities. I decided my life wasn't aligned with my priorities. I went back to school, got a second degree and entered a profession that required less work for more money, plus weekends off. Now that the boys are grown, I enjoy the luxury of being able to wake up Saturday morning and at a whim go on an adventure with my wife, instead of wondering if all my flash batteries are charged. Since I'm a child of children of the Depression (the first one, not this one), if I want a new toy, I'm perfectly happy socking away money for a year or so until I can buy it.
Thank you everyone for great responses full of logic and reasoning
I hated to sound like a complete newbie -- I know a lot of time goes into wedding photo editing, as the time I've pulled on the shoots I've done are fairly significant.
I guess I should have emphasized the main point of my initial post was to get tips on becoming a 2nd shooter, etc -- I only added in the other information to indicate my situation, etc which may have been a distraction, I'm sorry
Tony Hoffer - Good reply about the tips, as I was certainly mentally imaging being a "$500" shooter. But, then I started to think about the "print credits" out of that $500 and realized it would not be worth it.
Marcus Watts - Good points, and your $1000 suggestion may be the sweet spot. I get adequate money for the time involved and also offer the client prints to sweeten the deal. I'm not too sure what "Rule 76" is though
Ardent -- Good points also, thanks for your perspective.
Everyone else- thanks for inputs!
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I will have to perhaps give this more thought. I have been rolling these ideas over in my head for quite a while, but not too seriously. I am already full-time military, so I would not let (or want) wedding shoots take over my life completely. I figure a weekend here or there, though, and the associated editing time would be worth a little extra money. I'm not a buisinessman, though, and I really *don't* have the gear, so perhaps I will reconsider or at least put my plans on hold until a later time
just like I can mow my next doors neighbor's yard for 20$ (instead of some multi-month recurring payment + landscaping + edging + + + ) you too can do wedding photography for cheaper then the 'pros' and still make some side money.. I don't get why everyone has to be all or nothing..
I say the same thing about vista print and overnightprints.com - they are the cheap bottom feeders of the print industry, yet all of you use them.. what about the PRO printing shops that have inhouse designers and cater to YOUR needs instead of some gang print bargain prints.
i may be biased because i run a print shop, but it just goes to show you that there are similar circumstances in all businesses.
What about teachers doing side work tutoring for cash? ONLY SYLVAN should beable to do that! no way should you tutor for less then 400$ an hour!
What about those 100$ pro wordpress themes (prophoto2 comes to mind) why would you pay 100$ for a website when you can pay 2000$ to a pro??
There are opportunities for all levels of cost and skill..
I just find it funny that all of you photographers use these cheap alternatives but when it happens to YOUR profession you scream and shout and convince everyone that a cheaper alternative can't exist and hurts the industry.
I know of shooters who will do a wedding for $500 or less then spend a ton of time editing the pics. Because they were trying to look like champions to the couple by providing "realistic prices" as opposed to all the other rip off photographers they make other promises that don't value their time. So next they have a couple chasing them for a few weeks for images that are not half ready. By the time the couple get the cd's they don't think of what they saved but how they had to keep calling and putting off family who they had scheduled to show their pics to.
Not painting all budget shooters with that brush but certainly the testimony of more than a few.
And yet if these guys learnt the craft well, and it is so much easier now than at any time pre internet, they could book as many weddings as they want shooting freelance for established studios for $500-$700 and just hand over the unedited images.
Rule number 76. No excuses, play like a champion. (as said above). A true wedding artist will have already watched Wedding Crashers a minimum of 25 times and memorized all of the applicable rules.
I'm a budget photographer in Las Vegas. In order to keep deadlines and provide the photos within 1-3 weeks I streamlined my workflow to consist of 99% lightroom processing of all my RAW photos. Lightroom makes wedding photography possible for me.
My rates are on that low end, typically less than $500. I have made it profitable, but it's because my overhead costs are very low and I do not live alone, so my bills are much lower. For instance, aside from equipment wear and tear, my only expenses are gas, DVD discs, shipping and licensing, and of course time. And I've been getting work, pretty consistently in the last 8 months or so. I typically have 1-8 weddings each month, and another 3-5 other non-wedding photography jobs in the same month.
With processing included, I typically make about $25/hour profit, estimating at least 2x the amount of processing time as shooting time. Could I survive with my current prices if I lived on my own? Not a chance.
Therefore, I suggest that you keep in mind at what point you can profit enough to make it worth your while.
Oh, and I started by being a second photographer for someone who actually contacted me and asked if I was interested in shooting weddings. I said yes, and started at $30/hour for shooting only, no processing. I still do work for that business on occasion, and it's actually more profitable to me when time is factored in - 40% of my normal rates, but only 30% of the amount of time required.
With the crummy economy, there are probably more opportunities for $500 weddings than $5,000, so it's a good time to jump in, from that standpoint.
However, at the same time, more and more people like yourself are jumping into this over-saturated market. Newspapers are shedding PJs all over the place, and they are re-inventing themselves as wedding shooters. Most will probably have already gained the skills and gear needed to succeed.
Marketing is a huge expense that you'll need to think about as you start out. After you pay for some marketing, buy a few pieces of gear and get some insurance, you'll see that $500 will probably not even be a break-even point.
Hats off to any person who can make it at that price.
