300ws monolight on a 13' stand with 2x2 softbox. I like the faster recycle, the extra output if needed and the available modifiers if needed. There is plenty of time to carry it in and out, set up and tear down so I don't feel it's an issue.
And often they're less costly that a 580 and you can do so much more with a real strobe outside of weddings.
If I used two 580ex's mounted stands, what height would they have to be? I have 8' stands, but my gut is that I should get 13' so you don't see the cross shadows.
What diffuser do you use on your 580's for formals Tony?
Tom Cannon wrote:
If I used two 580ex's mounted stands, what height would they have to be? I have 8' stands, but my gut is that I should get 13' so you don't see the cross shadows.
What diffuser do you use on your 580's for formals Tony?
Depends on the situation, sometimes bare, sometimes shoot-through umbrellas, sometimes straight up umbrellas.
I have 10' stands and only rarely put them up that high.
You MUST keep the light source as a single light - cause in mutli row groups putting both lights at say 30 or 45 degrees WILL cause shadows. Shoot a wedding group just like a sports team.
Point of making it high is for three reasons - no one will stand infront of the light, bump into the umbrella, etc and to keep any shadows on the 2nd and deeper rows low and out of sight, and to get the light high enough there are no reflections on eyeglasses.
Bounced umbrella can be a bit specular.
shoot through wastes too much light in a big, empty dark church
ceilling bounce can cause issues with raccoon eyes and every church is different so you need a lighting plan that will work in every church every time or you won't be getting consistent, predictable, reliable results.
How do I know this? From personal experience. Lets take a walk through my education, shall we?
Set the aperture arounf 5.6, ISO 800 perhaps (high and clean is the idea) and shutter to get ambient - 1/20, 1/10. 17-85 IS is usually my lens, handheld, but a tripod is a better choice.
prof_fate wrote:
You MUST keep the light source as a single light - cause in mutli row groups putting both lights at say 30 or 45 degrees WILL cause shadows. Shoot a wedding group just like a sports team.
Point of making it high is for three reasons - no one will stand infront of the light, bump into the umbrella, etc and to keep any shadows on the 2nd and deeper rows low and out of sight, and to get the light high enough there are no reflections on eyeglasses.
Whoa, whoa, whoa. Easy with the "MUST"s there. I pretty much completely disagree with most of that, but I have been very happy with my formals.
Tony Hoffer wrote:
Whoa, whoa, whoa. Easy with the "MUST"s there. I pretty much completely disagree with most of that, but I have been very happy with my formals.
"MUST" is a strong word, but 'tis true--- Two lights at 45 degrees camera right and left will cast shadows that just might not be the best light for a group.
prof_fate, normally I agree with you but the "one softbox" technique has it's faults too. Note the light falloff on the people on either ends in your second to last pic. I actually think your first pic looks better, shadows and all.
Why not place two softboxes, on either side of the camera and overlap the center light just a bit so that you can cover the entire group?
Tony Hoffer wrote:
Whoa, whoa, whoa. Easy with the "MUST"s there. I pretty much completely disagree with most of that, but I have been very happy with my formals.
prof_fate, I also think your cross-lit examples actually look better! Keep in mind the OP has two 580EXs to work with at the moment, and using just one could give worse falloff than the example above. I notice the shadows from the cross lighting and agree they may not be optimal, but in your examples and the one from Tony, don't think they detract from the shot either. (nice shots everyone)
I've only second-shot so far, and have not shot formals yet. I have a question: for those using flash, does anyone use an on-camera (including on-bracket) fill flash? And if you do this, do you still use a flash to left and right of the group, or just one to one side?
Tom Cannon wrote:
I would love to see diagrams of setups from different people to show placement, distance, etc. of group formals.
Tom
Tom,
The setup would vary with each group. Setting up to light a large group isn't rocket science. For the "one softbox' technique, simply place your softbox above the camera, elevated to about 6-8'. The only trick is to make sure the light covers the entire group evenly. You can easily check this with a light meter. If you don't have a light meter, Move the softbox a bit further back to ensure even coverage and adjust your f/stop to taste. The height is adjusted so that you don't get any reflections in glasses and to help separate the chin from the neck with a bit of shadow.
For really large groups I would suggest two softboxs on either side of the camera, maybe six or so feet apart. Make sure to overlap the light in the middle just a bit. Aim the lights straight ahead.
Another trick is to "clamshell" light the group by placing another light slightly below or near the lens to add a bit of fill light. This is helpful when you have small children in the foreground.
My response, in anticipation of Tony's response...two lights, one outward from the group at each side; no light modifiers over flash lens (or very small light modifier) outputting light straight outward at about 40 degree angle to the group and converging to a point about 10' behind the group.
wilt wrote:
My response, in anticipation of Tony's response...two lights, one at each side, no light modifiers over flash lens (or very small light modifier) outputting light straight outward at about 30 degree angle to the group and converging to a point about 10' behind the group.
I personally carry around two monolights, stands, cables, and radio sync slaves. If you have the proper gear, multiple speedlites would work well too.
I used to bounce of the ceiling for formals, but as shown, that can have bad results. I also dont care for using a single light source for formals. In my experience, two lights almost always works out better. Softboxes can be great for single person portraits, but are generally bad for group shots. Umbrellas work much better.
