p.18 #1 · M8/Leica People I'm Thinking About Switching
brainiac wrote:
Call me what you want, if you look at my posts you will see that I stick to discussing the real, not the imaginary.
What you're forgetting is that reality is in the mind of the beholder. Much of what you claim is reality I find irrelevant to the making of photographs... this is the reality that you're not seeing.
What Richard is arguing (he's not discussing) is 100% left brain. Aside from the purely documentary such as cataloging an art collection or recording the details of a crime scene the right brain is involved in photography too. IMHO unless the camera is left in auto-everything mode a successful photograph that engages the viewer emotionally involves both right-brain and left-brain activity.
Until Richard puts his right brain into gear he'll keep arguing. He feeds on it; let him have the last word, smugly self-assured of his righteousness.
p.18 #2 · M8/Leica People I'm Thinking About Switching
I could never carry my d700 + 24 2.0 comfortably in a coat pocket. You might have far larger coats than me, but seriously, I would not.
Jun 23, 2009 at 07:23 AM
brainiac Offline [X]
p.18 #3 · M8/Leica People I'm Thinking About Switching
telyt wrote:
What you're forgetting is that reality is in the mind of the beholder.
Reality is out there. Experience and belief is in the mind of the beholder.
Much of what you claim is reality I find irrelevant to the making of photographs...
I don't go on to birding threads, in which I have little interest, and tell people there that much of what they claim I find irrelevant to the making of photographs. If you don't think a discussion of the M8's high iso capabilities is relevant on this thread, say so. If you aren't interested in that discussion, please accept my apologies for boring you.
>...this is the reality that you're not seeing.
I have openly stated that not everyone cares about the issues being discussed. I don't think that means the subject should be taboo.
p.18 #4 · M8/Leica People I'm Thinking About Switching
TELYT wrote: "...brainiac wrote:Call me what you want, if you look at my posts you will see that I stick to discussing the real, not the imaginary.
What you're forgetting is that reality is in the mind of the beholder. Much of what you claim is reality I find irrelevant to the making of photographs... this is the reality that you're not seeing..."
I agree with you TELYT.
Brainiac, you are presenting circumstances that are extremes and can only reffer to a camera's ability, not a real photo situation: ISO 12,800 at f1.4 at, say 1/8 sec is shooting a moonlit landscape! really now this is typical left brain analogy!
There is so much concentration at the details that you forget the overall picture. According to all the (very valid I might ad) points you have made about SLR VS RF there should not be any photos taken under low light, with very wide angles, in quick situations, at low ISO..yet I have seen tremendous work done with them.
If you only see a camera through the specs, you are limiting yourself! Sure the M8 cannot AF with a 135, and it cannot shoot at 12,800, and forget about macro..so what! It does less than a DSLR, but what it does, it does better!...and smaller! I think you may have been using 1-series CANONs a little too long my friend if you are seriously trying to pass a 5D as a "pocketable" camera.
p.18 #5 · M8/Leica People I'm Thinking About Switching
dasrocket wrote:
TELYT wrote: "...brainiac wrote:Call me what you want, if you look at my posts you will see that I stick to discussing the real, not the imaginary.
What you're forgetting is that reality is in the mind of the beholder. Much of what you claim is reality I find irrelevant to the making of photographs... this is the reality that you're not seeing..."
I agree with you TELYT.
Brainiac, you are presenting circumstances that are extremes and can only reffer to a camera's ability, not a real photo situation: ISO 12,800 at f1.4 at, say 1/8 sec is shooting a moonlit landscape! really now this is typical left brain analogy!...Show more →
Or a dim bar. Which is somewhere I've done a lot of shooting. And from Richard's posted shots he can say the same.
p.18 #6 · M8/Leica People I'm Thinking About Switching
I think I can safely say that iso 3200 or at most 6400 on my d700 is similar to the 1250 on the leica. More like 2 stops, not three.
Jun 23, 2009 at 10:00 AM
brainiac Offline [X]
p.18 #7 · M8/Leica People I'm Thinking About Switching
Brainiac, you are presenting circumstances that are extremes and can only reffer to a camera's ability, not a real photo situation: ISO 12,800 at f1.4 at, say 1/8 sec is shooting a moonlit landscape! really now this is typical left brain analogy!
A lot of words are being put in my mouth. Let me repeat that I don't suggest that low-light capabilities are the only important feature of a camera. I have simply been discussing the low-light capabilities of the M8, from the point of view of someone who shoots a lot in very low light environments. I totally agree that if that doesn't matter to you, then the discussion isn't worth reading. It wasn't even me who brought up the issue of the M8's low light capabilities.
However, as everyone knows, the advantages of newer sensors aren't limited to iso 12800. Less noise, more detail, greater dynamic range, and the ability to shut down apertures benefit shooting in all lights. That's why sensor performance is central to a camera's performance. The benefits of better sensors affect much more than just low light photos, and it's a mistake to think that newer sensors aren't offering advantages across all types of shooting.
If you only see a camera through the specs, you are limiting yourself!
I don't. I look at results/convenience/price. Again, a lot of words are being put in my mouth.
Sure the M8 cannot AF with a 135, and it cannot shoot at 12,800, and forget about macro..so what!
No what. In a thread about switching, those limitations are worth discussing before someone plunks down a large brick of bank notes.
>It does less than a DSLR, but what it does, it does better!
?? I don't really understand this statement.
...and smaller! I think you may have been using 1-series CANONs a little too long my friend if you are seriously trying to pass a 5D as a "pocketable" camera.
I just don't find the M8 greatly more pocketable than a 5D with pancake. It's a bit better, sure, but it's still quite heavy. It might be cheaper just to get a different coat. An Olympus EP1 or a Fuji F200 seem to me to be properly pocketable cameras, and they have their own limitations. It's a scale, and the marginal improvement in pocketability of the M8 over, say, a 500D or 5D comes at hella price in $$$/features/function/IQ.
p.18 #8 · M8/Leica People I'm Thinking About Switching
dasrocket wrote:
If you only see a camera through the specs, you are limiting yourself! Sure the M8 cannot AF with a 135, and it cannot shoot at 12,800, and forget about macro..so what! It does less than a DSLR, but what it does, it does better!...and smaller!
And MUCH more expensively. (however, not convinced at all about the "better" part compared to a 5DII, especially with some nice Zeiss glass attached).
p.18 #15 · M8/Leica People I'm Thinking About Switching
Ouch, I just ordered a bargain M8 from Keh... I didnīt mean to, I swear. The mouse just happened to be over the "purchase" button and I didnīt notice when I pressed it. I thought I closed the window. Hm, well have to test it out then, since I own it anyway now.
I have a Nokton 50/1.5 for my Bessa. Should do me well at the moment, since it is pretty close to my fave FL 58mm... Oh, and I have to get a 35ish lens as well. And M lenses work on the EP-1, donīt they? Those look really nice. And my OMs work with them as well. And I must say I would love to try out a real Henri C-B camera like a leica M3. I should check ebay for one of those. Or maybe I would be better of with an M6. Hm. Oops. What did I do...
Jun 27, 2009 at 02:50 PM
Andi Dietrich Offline [X]
p.18 #16 · M8/Leica People I'm Thinking About Switching
That is what is so nice about FM. Someone always buys it
p.18 #19 · M8/Leica People I'm Thinking About Switching
Richard, Ulrik - Thanks!
I was flipping through this thread just now and of course I see the issues with this camera and rangefinders in general, but to me itīs a tool to reinvigorate my way of working and instill me with a bigger confidence as a photographer, simply by using "the same" tool that great photographers in my field of interest have used. I think it is purely psyhological, not an interest in the technical side of it. I havenīt looked at a single test image from it, only casual, random shots posted here and there.
I think this interest in the M8 came about after reading a book on Henri Cartier-Bresson the last few days, getting really excited understanding that his method of approaching capturing an image was not that dissimilar to my own. So I have to try the camera the guy used as well! Well, not exactly the same camera, but I am sure you know what I mean
I have shot with rangefinders before, and if anybody has the slightest interest - hereīs my Epson R-D1 blog from winter 2007
I sold the Epson after only 6 months - there were unfortunately so many issues about it I didnīt like. Some were related to it being a (1.6x) rangefinder, but mostly it was due to the camera simply having too many basic flaws. But I loved the handling and the feeling it gave me when using it
So hereīs to the M8
Jun 28, 2009 at 10:35 AM
brainiac Offline [X]
p.18 #20 · M8/Leica People I'm Thinking About Switching
this is typical left brain analogy!
