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Archive 2008 · Portrait Session Pricing

  
 
Erik Moore
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p.1 #1 · Portrait Session Pricing


I am sure this topic has been covered many times before. I tried searching, spent an hour or so looking through old threads, and couldn't fine it, so I'll ask again, and maybe someone can point me to a relevant thread.

I am a serious hobbyist just starting to be paid for my work. In researching industry practices, it seems most common for a photographer to charge a site fee + charge for prints for a portrait session.

To me, this seems like an antiquated pricing structure, rooted in the time of film, and before the internet. It seems to me that these days, more valuable than prints, are photos that can be emailed to grandparents and used in slideshows, blogs, digital frames, and as desktop wallpaper.

Also, in the age of digital photography, at least as much time (and usually more) is spent on post processing than on shooting and printing.

So it seems to me that rather than a pricing scheme on site fee + prints, it would be smarter to charge a flat fee for a shoot and a CD with 20 or so processed shots, for which the client gets full printing rights.

I understand that there is also the issue of clients making prints themselves, and using their own printers or a crappy service, and then displaying your work on crappily printed media. Seems to me that this could be addressed with a simple request- "Please allow me to print or use this service that I trust for your prints, and please understand that the quality of the print reflects on the quality of my work".

Those of you who are charging a shoot fee + prints- have you examined your pricing in the era of digital and the web? Is your scheme held over from the days of film? Did you choose your scheme simply because that's what many others were already doing? Or have you examined/tried more "modern" alternatives, and found that the old way is still the best?

Perhaps I am being naive. I am pretty new at this. I don't have my pricing scheme down yet, but I need to get it figured out, as I am getting requests for portrait sessions weekly now.

Again, I apologize if this has been covered ad nauseam. I really did try to search and find previous threads on the topic.







Nov 12, 2008 at 11:03 AM
jjlphoto
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p.1 #2 · Portrait Session Pricing


I suggest a price that includes some prints so at least the client walks away with something that looks good. IE, a single look portrait may run $250, and includes one 8x10 print.

If you want to include a CD for their use, make sure that price reflects any potential loss in print revenue. (The CD just contains that one file that the print is of, that you have fully retouched.)



Nov 12, 2008 at 11:25 AM
Erik Moore
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p.1 #3 · Portrait Session Pricing


I have no issue with including a print or few with any package, but the more important question is how and whether to price giving them rights to _all_ the keepers from the shoot.


Nov 12, 2008 at 11:28 AM
c.d.embrey
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p.1 #4 · Portrait Session Pricing


I know people who deliver only a CD, no prints. They shoot multiple pix, then customer picks out the one they want. Then they retouch it, and customer walks out the door with a CD containing only the retouched photo. They do not get all the keepers, just what they have purchased.

In and out the door in less than an hour.

Price for your area, but $250.00 is a good starting point. More for multiple retouched photos.



Nov 12, 2008 at 04:13 PM
Erik Moore
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p.1 #5 · Portrait Session Pricing


c.d.embrey wrote:
I know people who deliver only a CD, no prints. They shoot multiple pix, then customer picks out the one they want. Then they retouch it, and customer walks out the door with a CD containing only the retouched photo. They do not get all the keepers, just what they have purchased.

In and out the door in less than an hour.

Price for your area, but $250.00 is a good starting point. More for multiple retouched photos.


So $250 for a single retouched photo with full printing rights? How much for additional photos? Not asking the exact price per se, just wondering if it's incrementally more, or if the formula goes like $250/1, $400/2, $500/3 or somesuch. Or is it more like $250 for the first one, $50 per additional?




Nov 12, 2008 at 04:18 PM
John Patrick
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p.1 #6 · Portrait Session Pricing


Erik Moore wrote:
I am a serious hobbyist just starting to be paid for my work. In researching industry practices, it seems most common for a photographer to charge a site fee + charge for prints for a portrait session.


There's a reason for this, and it isn't the film part.


To me, this seems like an antiquated pricing structure, rooted in the time of film, and before the internet. It seems to me that these days, more valuable than prints, are photos that can be emailed to grandparents and used in slideshows, blogs, digital frames, and as desktop wallpaper.


Low res, low res, low res, and low res. I don't see a need in any of those reasons for a digital file for it to be high res. You can add low-res images to the package if you want, but realize they may try to print them.


Also, in the age of digital photography, at least as much time (and usually more) is spent on post processing than on shooting and printing.


For non-studio shots, maybe. For studio shots, abso-freaking-lutely not! You should have minimal post-processing on studio shots, like cropping and maybe straightening (if not on tripod) only. No reason to color correct (you got the right custom white balance in the camera), no reason to dodge, burn, tweak exposure (as you lit it properly with your studio strobes, metered with a flash meter, and have the exposure within 2/10ths of a stop), no reason to clone something out.

If they had a bad complexion day and want a touch-up, that's additional. Maybe you throw in a PS touchup (limited to light usage of the healing brush, etc.) on a single image of their choosing as part of the package. But anything more is extra.


So it seems to me that rather than a pricing scheme on site fee + prints, it would be smarter to charge a flat fee for a shoot and a CD with 20 or so processed shots, for which the client gets full printing rights.


Well, a sitting fee should be your flat fee. Charge for prints vs charge for CD: Price each CD image at 5-10 times your print charge, then you're getting close. But you need to know WHY they need the digital file, so you can give them what they need. Giving them a 16-bit TIFF in Adobe RGB won't work if they're going to Target for printing. Likewise, an 8-bit JPG in sRGB might not be the best choice if they're using it in advertising (press-printed). Of course, if they're using it in advertising, you'll be charging a licensing fee, right?


I understand that there is also the issue of clients making prints themselves, and using their own printers or a crappy service, and then displaying your work on crappily printed media. Seems to me that this could be addressed with a simple request- "Please allow me to print or use this service that I trust for your prints, and please understand that the quality of the print reflects on the quality of my work".


And they'll ignore your request and go print off 4x6s at Walgreen's. I don't care what you recommend, they will get it as cheap as possible. One thing you can do if you want to allow them to print as many as they want for "at cost" rates, is upload the images to an online-lab that offers client viewing and printing, and then they can order to their heart's content. You've already screened the printing quality of the lab, so you know they're getting a print of the quality you want to best illustrate your work. They can print as little or as many as they want.


Those of you who are charging a shoot fee + prints- have you examined your pricing in the era of digital and the web? Is your scheme held over from the days of film? Did you choose your scheme simply because that's what many others were already doing? Or have you examined/tried more "modern" alternatives, and found that the old way is still the best?

Perhaps I am being naive. I am pretty new at this. I don't have my pricing scheme down yet, but I need to get it figured out, as I am getting requests for portrait sessions weekly now.
...Show more

Print vs CD has been argued here and elsewhere countless times.

One thing you can do if you still want to provide prints is only shoot clients who want the real big prints. I read an article about a guy who only shoots clients who want the old-fashioned wall portrait: 24x30 or larger. They get that in canvas, and sell 8x10s to the client for gifts to relatives.

John



Nov 12, 2008 at 04:53 PM
NinaS
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p.1 #7 · Portrait Session Pricing


I offer both prints & digital ... 90% of my clients buy prints, because it is cheaper in the long run, unless they need dozens of one print.

My packages are based on print credit, so they can build their own package the way they want it, they can buy majority prints, and one image digital if they want to make Xmas cards or announcements etc ... totally their choice

My sitting fee goes down as my package prices go up, they can pre-purchase a package and save $$ or they can start small, but don't get a discount on add-ons
the sitting covers my time,gas,overhead, it is my breakeven point, and allows me to keep my print costs down, so I don't look to pricey I only charge $30 for an 8x10, was going to up that, but in this economy, I think I'll not do a rate change for 2009, and market on that as a plus!!

on my digital sales, they are buying one image for a set price, not all, it is as carefully edited as the prints are, and cropped to the common sizes for ease of printing.

I also have a 4x6 portfolio with prints of the same image from many labs, including Walgreens, Walmart, Freddies, Costco & a few other local labs, plus one from my online lab ... I explain the reason for color management, and show them the difference ... this discourages most digital sales, and they buy prints from me thru my lab

the proof is in the print, the $$ are in the prints, and an educated client will always choose quality over cost



Nov 12, 2008 at 05:09 PM
Erik Moore
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p.1 #8 · Portrait Session Pricing


John Patrick wrote:
Low res, low res, low res, and low res. I don't see a need in any of those reasons for a digital file for it to be high res. You can add low-res images to the package if you want, but realize they may try to print them.



Low<i>er</i> res maybe, but my desktop wallpaper is 1600px wide. That would make an acceptable 8x10.


For non-studio shots, maybe. For studio shots, abso-freaking-lutely not! You should have minimal post-processing on studio shots, like cropping and maybe straightening (if not on tripod) only. No reason to color correct (you got the right custom white balance in the camera), no reason to dodge, burn, tweak exposure (as you lit it properly with your studio strobes, metered with a flash meter, and have the exposure within 2/10ths of a stop), no reason to clone something out.


Well, I don't have a studio. Some studio gear and a backdrop or two, ya, but my environment is rarely that tightly controlled, and most of my work is "candid" or environmental portraits. So I end up putting in work cropping and getting exp and colors right, adding vignette, maybe clone out a power line, etc. Takes time.



Well, a sitting fee should be your flat fee. Charge for prints vs charge for CD: Price each CD image at 5-10 times your print charge, then you're getting close.


So assuming a print charge of $25, if they want 10 images, you're suggesting upwards of $1250 + the shooting fee? Seems steep to me for 1 hour shooting plus maybe 3 in PP.


But you need to know WHY they need the digital file, so you can give them what they need. Giving them a 16-bit TIFF in Adobe RGB won't work if they're going to Target for printing.


My question pertains to personal usage. I know how to find prices for commercial usage.


And they'll ignore your request and go print off 4x6s at Walgreen's. I don't care what you recommend, they will get it as cheap as possible. One thing you can do if you want to allow them to print as many as they want for "at cost" rates, is upload the images to an online-lab that offers client viewing and printing, and then they can order to their heart's content. You've already screened the printing quality of the lab, so you know they're getting a print of the quality you want to best illustrate your work. They can print as little
...Show more

I actually really like that idea to protect the quality of prints they'll be getting. Got any suggestions for specific sites that offer this?



Print vs CD has been argued here and elsewhere countless times.


I'm sure it has, and sorry to raise it again. But again, I couldn't find a thread.



One thing you can do if you still want to provide prints is only shoot clients who want the real big prints. I read an article about a guy who only shoots clients who want the old-fashioned wall portrait: 24x30 or larger. They get that in canvas, and sell 8x10s to the client for gifts to relatives.


Ha. I could do that, but I would rather not limit my client pool to people with bad taste. :-)





Nov 12, 2008 at 05:46 PM
sboerup
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p.1 #9 · Portrait Session Pricing


I guess I don't need to mention that this is the age old question for digital shooters today. My remarks come from experience (although only 3 years) of the "traditional" method of selling prints, but also with the knowledge that many of the very successful portrait photographers charge on average $3000 after prints and products.

With my business, I am not selling digital images, or even a service. I sell artwork to my clients, generally of themselves. Since 98% of my clients don't generally display artwork around the house in digital form, they purchase prints. 35% of my gross yearly sales is generally from prints (small to very large). These come in different varieties. It has proven a profitable business for me to support my family with, as it has been profitable for many studios and continues to be.

Selling digital photographs on a CD is a totally different business, so it's hard for me to comment. It's hard for me to fathom a whole ton of people that would continue to pay an average $1000 for family portraits and just receive a CD.

What I'm getting at is this, how profitable do you want/need your business to be? Can you operate a successful business by just offering a CD and a portrait session for $300? Of course I know the successful studios that average $2500 on family portraits have mastered their process and not everyone can anticipate achieving this, but I can guarantee that their profits are much much higher than a studio that only sells digital photographs on a CD.

One might ask, "selling packages around $2500 that might cost me $400 in materials is preposterous!" Many people might think it's highway robbery. It could be seen as that if you provide no value with that purchase.

I don't want to be remembered by the images mom shared on her fancy family blog, but by the artwork hanging on their wall that they love. I'm a firm believer in providing greater value than price. The products I sell represent who I am as a photographer, my style, my quality and my taste in art. It's much easier for people to get a sense of what I do through printed products, beautifully crafted and displayed in the home/office. This gets me new clients . . . CD's do not. This is my business model, and although sometimes I worry about where the industry is going to end up with the whole "selling prints" model, until average Joes and amateurs can first capture a photograph that a professional creates, this business model should be safe, but ingenuity will drive your business to further growth and profits.



Nov 13, 2008 at 01:50 AM
Erik Moore
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p.1 #10 · Portrait Session Pricing


sboerup wrote:
I guess I don't need to mention that this is the age old question for digital shooters today. My remarks come from experience (although only 3 years) of the "traditional" method of selling prints, but also with the knowledge that many of the very successful portrait photographers charge on average $3000 after prints and products.


Damn. I ain't even close yet.


With my business, I am not selling digital images, or even a service. I sell artwork to my clients, generally of themselves.


That's actually a really cool way to look at it, and I'm sure it can help justify your price, to those clients that happen to share the mindset. My clients do want to send pics. They do post pics on blogs, and what's more, my photos get more circulation via email and website than they do from visits to a client's home.

But we run in different circles.


Selling digital photographs on a CD is a totally different business, so it's hard for me to comment. It's hard for me to fathom a whole ton of people that would continue to pay an average $1000 for family portraits and just receive a CD.



You're probably right. Although it may be a battle of perceptions (easier to feel good about paying a lot of money for something you can hold, feel and hang). In theory at least, a CD full of beautiful art should have the same worth as prints of all those pictures, less the cost of the actual prints. What I'm beginning to understand is that this is not the case.


What I'm getting at is this, how profitable do you want/need your business to be? Can you operate a successful business by just offering a CD and a portrait session for $300? Of course I know the successful studios that average $2500 on family portraits have mastered their process and not everyone can anticipate achieving this, but I can guarantee that their profits are much much higher than a studio that only sells digital photographs on a CD.


Which may be the crux of the matter, unfortunately. Reading your post turned on a lightbulb for me- and that's the difference between value and perceived value can be huge in terms of dollar signs.

To answer your question- I don't _need_ my business to be profitable at all- it's not my primary source of income, and probably never will be. But nevertheless, I do want to make my time worth it and off set some or all of my equipment costs.

Thanks a ton for your input.

By the way- does anyone know where I might find a large sampling of portraits pricing and packages?




Nov 13, 2008 at 12:04 PM
jefferies1
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p.1 #11 · Portrait Session Pricing


They only reason I make prints is to give the client an emotional attachment to the image. I can show photos on a laptop all day and people like the look but when I print one out and hand it to them many are taken away. Some just get quiet while others cry. That is just from a cheap ink jet print. When the print is lab made, hard backed(mounted), texture coated the reactions are even stronger. I don't sell pictures. I sell the beauty, creative art and emotion my work brings to the table that happens to be in the form of a photo print. If I could draw better it could be a sketch or painting. After the sales are made I know most have a scanner at home so copies are easy to make legal or not. I give the same images on a CD since They will buy what they want for home and office anyway. My prints do look different than walmart but walmart is fine for sending friends etc. I feel my money is made at the first presentation. After that I am on to the next client. With prints I can turn what would have been sold as a $200.00 CD into $1000.00 print order and the clients are Much happier.


Nov 13, 2008 at 04:58 PM
David Holmes
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p.1 #12 · Portrait Session Pricing


Erik Moore wrote:
I actually really like that idea to protect the quality of prints they'll be getting. Got any suggestions for specific sites that offer this?


Mpix via Zenfolio.



Nov 14, 2008 at 11:35 AM
markedman
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p.1 #13 · Portrait Session Pricing


Interesting topic with no clear right answer.
CD sales have been a large portion of my business. The majority are for private use. Of course you want to keep quailty high . But the market has changed with digital. People look for value . I believe offering a CD is a great opportunity to increase profits . Of course with rights protection. I think sometimes ego comes in to play. Not wanting to give away the rights . But if you are selling family portraits there is little to worry about. All my CD packages include two copies plus prints. This is added value to my clients. Plus it establishes a print standard.
On the related subject of pricing. We should consider "added value" with our services. Don't lower your price. Give more value. Close the deal with extra prints, free enlargement with early booking etc.. We all know the cost to us for a print. I would much rather give them a print then money.
Mark



Nov 18, 2008 at 10:51 AM
Chip Payet
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p.1 #14 · Portrait Session Pricing


Marking for reference......perfectly appropriate to my situation right now, too. Glad you started this new thread so recently Erik.


Dec 04, 2008 at 08:53 PM
markedman
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p.1 #15 · Portrait Session Pricing


Hi Chip,
Just to ad to the marketing philosophy. With my event photography I am running a holiday photo sale for the month of December. Did it before with reasonable success. Tis the season to buy stuff. Everyone else is having sales. Why not photographers?
No real downside as long as you control the offer with no loop holes and limit the timeframe.
It might just give you an advantage over your competition.
Mark



Dec 07, 2008 at 05:28 PM





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