monochrome wrote:
Buying a new 1DMIII, I think the problem is over. I have one of the SN before the blue dots, and it has worked fine. I did have the AF "fix" done to it and still really no problems. I'm still learning the camera, SO MUCH to do so.
I never had any problem with my Mark III
Any if you have problem with Mark III Canon was fixing it for free
I don't see ware was the problem to buy Mark III before
bobbytan wrote:
"Not much of an upgrade" is relative. To me, these additions represent a HUGE upgrade (of which HD video is just one of them) but obviously you disagree.
21.1 megpixels new sensor
Digic IV image processor
Reduced microlens gap
14-bit A/D converter
ISO 100-6400 (Expanded 50-25600)
High-def 1080p video/movie
98% viewfinder coverage
ISO display on top plate
New/improved 1800 mAh battery
Partial weather sealing
AF micro-adjustment <20 lenses
2 silent modes
3" VGA screen with auto brightness
Self cleaning sensor
Live view mode
150,000 exposure shutter life
Image copyright metadata support
4 frames per second
2 sRAW modes (10 or 5mp)
3 custom modes/presets
Auto lighting optimization
Supports UDMA CF cards
HDMI connector
And more ....
sRAW, bigger viewfinder coverage, Live view, weather sealing and Sensor cleaner are serious upgrades for me. The 1 fps isn't enough for me to ditch my 1.6x croped 40D for faster work. But I'd rather have a 5D and a 5DII than tout 3 cameras.
I don't want 21mp of NR'd mush. I only want 21mp of 5D like sharp quality or there's no point. If this camera can't deliver this then it's a serious mark against it.
What's the point of bigger images but with less detail?
Don't get me wrong, I am eagerly anticipating this camera too. I've owned my current 5D for just under 3 years. But I don't see a lot of camera development, but a lot of headline electronic / firmware additions. For 5D upgrader's there's stuff to play with, but for picture's in the bag approach, the Nikon D700 is a strong contender. i still think Canon have dropped the ball with 3.9 fps vs the D700's 5fps. Canon could have made this camera 5 fps so easily. They could have dominated this segment again, by offfering MP and high FPS.
Here's a further thought. If the NR can't be turned off, like the Nikon D3 and D700 and the 21mp RAW files look like they have been passed though a bad Neat image /noise nija pass then sRAW might be the only way to go with this camera. But that's an issue too because that brings the pixel cout down to 9.9mp...which is also a serious down grade from my current 5D's 12.8mp.
Then there's the silly UK price £2299, that's more than I paid for my 5D, which was the first batch in the UK. That's the equivelent of $4100 (US)...which is madness. I can get a D700 for £1700 and the D3 isn't much more than the 5DII.
John Caldwell wrote:
Sure, but what does the poster mean when saying the sensor will be cooked by the video feature? Is this a well known problem or this an alarmist's viewpoint?
I think Robert was just curious if this a new way for the sensor to fail because of this new feature. I don't think he was claiming it to be either a well known problem, nor was he being alarmist.
Though I can imagine that when used 5D2s hit the B&S buyers may ask from sellers how much video they've shot. Shutter actuations alone will no longer be a good judge of how much a camera has had.
This camera is called 5D Mk II and not 3D or 7D for a very good reason - it's just an upgrade, not a complete revamp or overhaul. If the specs don't appeal to you .... just be patient - I can guarantee you guys that Canon will release the next iteration of the 1D series which will have 45-point AF and maybe more, with 5-10 fps, etc, etc. .... and I can also guarantee you that the price will be higher than $2,700!
gazzajagman wrote:
sRAW, bigger viewfinder coverage, Live view, weather sealing and Sensor cleaner are serious upgrades for me. The 1 fps isn't enough for me to ditch my 1.6x croped 40D for faster work. But I'd rather have a 5D and a 5DII than tout 3 cameras.
I don't want 21mp of NR'd mush. I only want 21mp of 5D like sharp quality or there's no point. If this camera can't deliver this then it's a serious mark against it.
What's the point of bigger images but with less detail?
Don't get me wrong, I am eagerly anticipating this camera too. I've owned my current 5D for just under 3 years. But I don't see a lot of camera development, but a lot of headline electronic / firmware additions. For 5D upgrader's there's stuff to play with, but for picture's in the bag approach, the Nikon D700 is a strong contender. i still think Canon have dropped the ball with 3.9 fps vs the D700's 5fps. Canon could have made this camera 5 fps so easily. They could have dominated this segment again, by offfering MP and high FPS. ...Show more →
gazzajagman wrote:
Here's a further thought. If the NR can't be turned off, like the Nikon D3 and D700 and the 21mp RAW files look like they have been passed though a bad Neat image /noise nija pass then sRAW might be the only way to go with this camera. But that's an issue too because that brings the pixel cout down to 9.9mp...which is also a serious down grade from my current 5D's 12.8mp.
Interesting point... will high ISO NR be applied to the RAW data or not (regardless of what is selected in the menu)?
Good point. Time to schedule a trip to Bangkok maybe .... like what Lars would do?
gazzajagman wrote:
Here's a further thought. If the NR can't be turned off, like the Nikon D3 and D700 and the 21mp RAW files look like they have been passed though a bad Neat image /noise nija pass then sRAW might be the only way to go with this camera. But that's an issue too because that brings the pixel cout down to 9.9mp...which is also a serious down grade from my current 5D's 12.8mp.
Then there's the silly UK price £2299, that's more than I paid for my 5D, which was the first batch in the UK. That's the equivelent of $4100 (US)...which is madness. I can get a D700 for £1700 and the D3 isn't much more than the 5DII. ...Show more →
Canon is perfectly capable of doing that, but realized it would eat into the sales of the 1Ds.
Having been in consumer focus groups before as well as part of company product improvement projects, I suspect Canon built a focus group consisting of photographers representing their target market and asked them to list their desired changes to the current 5D. That gave them customer-desired changes. They probably did not both reading Internet forums, which are statistically useless samples--I wouldn't bother with Internet forums myself.
They probably also had statistics on what technology advances in their other models as well as competing cameras that appeared to be really catching fire in the marketplace.
They would also have items left over from the previous project that had been okay'd for the Mark I, but not included because of time, engineering, or bugetary constrations. We know from a Canon interview several years ago that the self-cleaning sensor had been a "maybe next model" item since the 20D.
Those three sets of data would be what the marketing group took to the table. The engineers would tell them which were definitely not feasible within the limits of time and budget. They'd rack and stack the rest to determine priority, and most likely the items at the bottom of the list would fall off as time and budget got short toward the deadline. Unforeseen engineering problems might knock a few more items off and allow some previously not-okayed items to slip in at the last minute...or not.
What they wind up with is the most marketable product they could produce for their intended target market...which frankly might not include you.
I'd bet money that an improved AF system simply didn't rise to the top after the racking, stacking, and feasibility discussions had concluded. I doubt there was actually a foresworn decision of "We're not going to improve the AF because it would compete with the 1Ds."
I never watch the American cable channel "Lifeline." They never have the kind of programming I like. But then, I know up front I'm not in their target audience.
bobbytan wrote:
This camera is called 5D Mk II and not 3D or 7D for a very good reason - it's just an upgrade, not a complete revamp or overhaul. If the specs don't appeal to you .... just be patient - I can guarantee you guys that Canon will release the next iteration of the 1D series which will have 45-point AF and maybe more, with 5-10 fps, etc, etc. .... and I can also guarantee you that the price will be higher than $2,700!
I don't want a 1 series for one reason - size. Its just too big for my use. It seems that Nikon realizes that some people want a modern AF FF camera in a smaller size package. An upgraded AF should have been a no-brainer for the 5D II; I'm still quite surprised by Canon's decison here.
Absolutly! It's not hitting the Uk shored until late November and Stock will be hard to come by, which means that we'll be forced to pay over the odds if you want one before Xmass...but Hong kong rarely has these supply issues and often their prices are more negotiable too.
Back on the NR front. It looks like the NR is applied irrespective of RAW/sRAW/JPEG.
Looking at Dpreview's menu layout, Page 13, the defaul setting is option "0", there's one stronger "2", but there's 2 lower options, Lower "1" and disable (YAY!) "3".
It's also possible that the default JPEG is set to normal and not fine and that the JPEG compression + NR = smudges. Take out the NR (maybe loose a stop) and use RAW (ans gain processability) and we could see some very detailed images indeed!
gazzajagman wrote:
Absolutly! It's not hitting the Uk shored until late November and Stock will be hard to come by, which means that we'll be forced to pay over the odds if you want one before Xmass...
I don't understand. After all that wailing and gnashing of teeth (often without ANY basis whatsoever especially when it comes to RAW output), why do you even bother about its release date, availability and price? Shouldn't you be busy preparing to switch gears to Nikon or Sony or Leica
Why is that Nikon will listen to what photographers want? As a consequence, there are people who have switched over to the dark side or they're running with two systems.
In any case, the 5DMkII is going to sell well and is sold out for pre-order at most reputable retailers. The AF appears to have improved via software from Digic IV processing and with color temperature detection and light flicker detection, it may be "good enough" for the money. Lets see.
thw2 wrote:
I don't understand. After all that wailing and gnashing of teeth (often without ANY basis whatsoever especially when it comes to RAW output), why do you even bother about its release date, availability and price? Shouldn't you be busy preparing to switch gears to Nikon or Sony or Leica
I'm looking for a camera to supply my business needs over the next 2-3 years. My current 5D is 3 years old and it's time to relegate it to lighter duties. I have a large lens investment and i don't want to run 2 systems concurrently. I'd never get the post processing to look the same. I have no intention to drop Canon, I've been using them for 25 years. But I have frank business descisions to make. My biggest question I have at the moment is which camera to run with for my 2009 season. I won't be able to answer that until I get to play with the camera in my hands and analyse it's output.
I'm a little tired of the 5D's AF...which is my main complaint (hey! this is a forum after all), I'm hoping that we can all get better pictures than the poor JPEGs that are about at the mo. If the 21mp is all slushy, then I might well get a 1DIII instead.
The current 1DsIII is just too expensive for my professional needs.
Looks like Michael Reichman had one to play with for 48 hours. I am a little dissapointed that he focused on the video aspects and not the still images. I understand he had nothing to decode the raw files with but hey... play with the jpegs.
BTW anyone else wish Canon would offer an option to capture the images in DNG I was hoping all manufactures would standardize on that format.
One other thing, did you guys notice that the 5D MKII is compatible with the IR remote? I will have to dig thru my box and find the one I was using with my original Digital Rebel (300D). Not quite as useful as the pocket wizards but useful for some things.
It's amazing to me that the feature, and it is definitely a feature of the positive sort, creates so much controversy. The electronics controlling the video capture add negligible weight, and if Nikon's D90 is any example, negligible complexity to the camera. The 5DII should be as good for purist photographers as the 5D that came before it. On top of that, it opens up vast new creative possibilities to those who want them.
Those who compare the video capability to their dedicated handicams fail to appreciate the benefit of using SLR lenses to generate artful video, or the potentially superior high ISO capability inherent in Canon's sensors. Microphones? Imagine a few years down the line, Canon or some third party develops a WiFi controlled mic-box that can record sound locally, and be triggered remotely via ETTL or PW. Sync the timecodes, and voila! I'm sure that might be one of many approaches Canon and Nikon are contemplating.
Either way, this video thing is very exciting. If you don't want to join the party, leave it off. And as for the potentially "added cost" the video feature might add to the camera.... the 5DII is cheaper than its predecessor, and appears to be superior in virtually every specified respect. We'll see how well it works in the field, but this is a truly exciting camera in part because Canon added video to it.
gazzajagman wrote:
Wow...you think that image as a lot of detail? Man there's someting wrong with your current work flow! There's a lot of NR smearing in her hair. Her veil is a swash with smears. My 5D pics look like crystal compared to this image. The pixel quality of the current 5D is far better.
Yes, I'm aware that it's a pre-poduction and yes it's a JPEG. But that image didn't really impress me much at all.
My comments about the 5D AF system are still valid. It's an antequated AF system. It's centre AF point is f2.8 in only one vertice of it's cross and boy do i feel the difference with an 85L. I generally have to use MF and an Ee-s screen to ensure that I get accurate focussing...and this camera is supposed to be EOS?
Over 20 years of EF/EOS/AF development and it's latest and greatest camera has a luddite AF system that is inaccurate if you hold the camera in a portrait orientation and use top pro glass? It's no wonder there's a lot of photographers migrating from 5D to Nikon D700's.
Actually 3fps to 5fps is a big jump. 3 fps to 4fps isn't so great and that's that Canon have offered us. They have held back. May be because they don't want us to have a 5DmkX to ever have 5fps, that's reserved for the 1DsX. Either way, we're not getting in the 5DII what the Digic 4 chip is capable of. The 50D seems to utilise the chip better; 6.3x15.5=97.65mps, where as the 5DII comes in at a lowly 82.29mps. That's 15% less. We could have had 5 fps for that or 25mp.
Sure, there's a lot right about the new 5DII, but it's VF black out time, AF and fps is a serious dissapointment. It's also unsettling to know that this camera probably won't get a re-fresh for another 3 years. ...Show more →
There is detail in her face/skin/eyes/lips and in portions of the veil. There is obvious NR going on in the shot and the shot hasn't been sharpened in post. I have no idea what compression was used for this jpeg. Stating that the pixel quality of the current 5D is far better than a camera that isn't on the market yet is a bit much. I doubt that we will see these hair and smudge issues with raw files (or fine jpegs) on the actual production cameras - at least I hope not.
I didn't mention going from 3fps to 5fps, I only mentioned people complaing about 4fps vs 5fps.
The bottom line is that you do not have to buy the new 5D if you don't like it. If your current 5D pics are crystal clear, buy another one since they are a good deal now. Saying we could have had this or that feature isn't going to change anything. Heck, if you like the Nikon better, you should switch. BTW, there is no perfect digital camera on the market.
One reason could be that Nikon has a lot of ground to cover and market share to regain .... after being in hibernation for 3 years or so. They HAVE to be really aggressive to regain lost ground. Canon is still hedging their bets and will only go so far.
rsg_1 wrote:
RDKirk,
Why is that Nikon will listen to what photographers want? As a consequence, there are people who have switched over to the dark side or they're running with two systems.
In any case, the 5DMkII is going to sell well and is sold out for pre-order at most reputable retailers. The AF appears to have improved via software from Digic IV processing and with color temperature detection and light flicker detection, it may be "good enough" for the money. Lets see.
