ChrisDM wrote:
I feel this is more of a "blanket statement", could you please back this up with some "real data"? Or we could just talk innuendo around each other's posts... Anyways, fortunately for you your dream camera exists, it is called the D700. If that's the camera I needed I certainly wouldn't let some peculiar blind brand loyalty stop me from buying it.
Do you think it is "peculiar blind brand loyalty" or the thousands of dollars I would lose in the process of changing my lenses that is slowing me down....?
You _know_ that people do not want a 1ds mark III for a 5d price, still you argue that point. You _know_ that it is not brand loyalty, but lenses and other accesorices that stop people from changing. You know these facts, but still you argue the fictive points. This use of strawman argumentation is not very honest. I have (in this thread) said quite a lot of nice things about the 5d replacement, even said a few times now that I'm most likely going to buy it, but negative comments is obviously somehow forbidden.
One thing that nobody has discussed, in regards to AF performance, is the AF modes that we haven't had before. I am very excited about contrast detection and face recognition. If it is fast enough and accurate enough, I can see myself using it more than reflex AF, which in my view is very limiting even on the D300, which seems to have the best reflex AF system there is. The inability to tell the AF system to focus on more peripheral parts of the frame is a major annoyance to me. Sensor-based focussing ushers in a new, better era. Couple that with intelligent focussing software, and the old submirror type of focussing could become quite marginal. I can see myself one day using an EOS with no prism, and a screen which you can tap in order to select one or more AF points of controllable size.
So they updated almost every area of the camera except the focus then.
Last week I did some aerials using a lovely but somewhat aging 1dm2 and 40d grudgingly for second body. 5x as many oof or soft from the 40d compared to the 1. Besides that I was using the 1dm2 3x as much. So focus matters duh.
It looks like a really good middle level camera for masses but not slightly picky professionals with leftover slapdash for the first or second most important element of the camera beyond the sensor itself sort of thing.
So it's 2009 for the new focus 1d at PMA or maybe NIkon for my next round of replacement gear.
Daan B wrote:
I shot Nikon and was an active member of Nikonians during that time... There was lots of complaining. Especially about how much high ISO sucked on the D2/D200 series in comparison to the Canon cams
Maybe I just have selective memory, but I don't ever remember anything like this.
digitalbug30d wrote:
eos3 does 4.3 fps without booster, 7 fps with.....even still better overall AF/metering tham 99 percent DSLRs no excuse
I'd like to see some critical AF comparisons with images from the EOS-3 enlarged to equal the 100% crop from today's DSLR cameras, just to see if the accuracy is really there. The 45 point system is a plus in terms of flexibility but I do wonder if the original system used in the EOS-3 is precise enough for the digital world where everybody now has a loupe (100% crop is the de facto loupe).
RyanFlynn wrote:
All the new 5DII apologists on here are cracking me up.
I'm about as big of a 5D fan as you can get. I love both of mine, and use them constantly to pay the bills and fill the coffers. They're my main tools in my business.
I'm disappointed in the new 5DII. If it turns out that they just recycled the AF from the 5D, Canon can kiss my ass, I'm just waiting for Nikon to release a couple new primes and I'm gone. I'm well aware that Canon won't miss me, and that they don't give a flying f*ck what I, or any other pro, think.
The ONE improvement the 5D really needed, and they screwed the pooch. I don't give a damn about more resolution. That only matters if the shot is in focus. The 1D Mk. II had multiple cross-type sensors 5+ years ago. WTF Canon? It's not difficult.
The rest of the camera is cool, but damn they failed where it mattered. And don't say "but the IQ is the BEST EVARRR!". You've seen naught but a few corporate samples, and none of you have used it.
And before anyone gives the oh-so-tired line of "what do you expect for $2700?" ... I'd be more than willing to pay $5000 for a 5DII with all the specs it has, with a proper bloody AF array. I'm sick of using only the center point, or the useless outer points. ...Show more →
Maybe you should consider a used 1DS MKIII, I'm sure you could find one for $5000.
The local store has one for testing until Friday, I wonder if I can sneak in my own CF card in that one. Going down to check it out tomorrow nevertheless!
At a guess, I don't see much difference between this and my 1Ds3 at ISO 6400. It looks to me like the sensors have a lot in common.
It's clear that whoever took this shot is in need of some good wideangle glass though. And they certainly aren't too hot at processing. This needs better chroma NR, and better raw conversion.
Are we basing the 5D Mark II AF performance on 9 focus points? Is that why we don't think it's pro level? Do we have anything to base it on? Anyone used it? I don't think so!!! What if they are 9 great AF points?
As for the EOS 3, it had terrible high ISO performance, even though it had 45 points of focus!
32067dlm wrote:
Are we basing the 5D Mark II AF performance on 9 focus points? Is that why we don't think it's pro level? Do we have anything to base it on? Anyone used it? I don't think so!!! What if they are 9 great AF points?
It is the same AF as in the 5D... Which means great center AF point performance and crappy outer AF point performance. But according to Mr. Westfall at least AI Servo tracking should be better than with the 40D/50D.
Daan B wrote:
Probably one center AF point that can be turned on/off and 44 invisible and non-selectable assist AF points. What a BS... Basically he says the 5D AF is better for AI Servo than that of the 40D/50D. I wonder if he ever shot with these cams himself... Marketing c@#$. Or maybe true... which is an even bigger fart.
Well, I have a 5D, a 40D, and I had (briefly) a 1D3 - guess which one gave me the best hit rate when shooting AI-Servo. Yes, it was the 5D. The 40D, even at 3 FPS wasn't quite as good, and the 1D3 I had, despite being "blue dot", had issues so I returned it after putting over 1000 rounds through it to test its capability.
So yes, Chuck Westfall is on to something here. Of course the decision to keep the same (or similar) AF system was probably a marketing decision as well - it was certainly cheaper than including the 45 point system from the 1-series, and unless they had developed a 15-point AF system based on that of the 40D, people would not have liked giving up the 6 "assist" af points. I know that I wouldn't.
Ironically, AF is the only area where I expected a change, and there doesn't seem to be one - at least not a major change anyway.
I'm quite curious about this new 5D2. I await some evaluations of the product to see if it exceeds the performance of the present 5D in important areas. It looks like it could be a winner, given its price point. The results will show if that's true or not.
Tom_W wrote:
Well, I have a 5D, a 40D, and I had (briefly) a 1D3 - guess which one gave me the best hit rate when shooting AI-Servo. Yes, it was the 5D. The 40D, even at 3 FPS wasn't quite as good, and the 1D3 I had, despite being "blue dot", had issues so I returned it after putting over 1000 rounds through it to test its capability.
So yes, Chuck Westfall is on to something here. Of course the decision to keep the same (or similar) AF system was probably a marketing decision as well - it was certainly cheaper than including the 45 point system from the 1-series, and unless they had developed a 15-point AF system based on that of the 40D, people would not have liked giving up the 6 "assist" af points. I know that I wouldn't....Show more →
Why not add the 6 assist points to the 40D/50D 9 AF points? And besides that, I'd rather have good One Shot performance on the outer AF points for portraiture than better AI Servo with the center AF point when using the 5D2. The 5D2 doesn't strike me as a cam that is going to be used for sports and/or wildlife. This sounds like a Canon brainfart to me...
brainiac wrote:
One thing that nobody has discussed, in regards to AF performance, is the AF modes that we haven't had before. I am very excited about contrast detection and face recognition. If it is fast enough and accurate enough, I can see myself using it more than reflex AF, which in my view is very limiting even on the D300, which seems to have the best reflex AF system there is. The inability to tell the AF system to focus on more peripheral parts of the frame is a major annoyance to me. Sensor-based focussing ushers in a new, better era. Couple that with intelligent focussing software, and the old submirror type of focussing could become quite marginal. I can see myself one day using an EOS with no prism, and a screen which you can tap in order to select one or more AF points of controllable size....Show more →
Get rid of the need for the "reflex-based" AF system and you can ditch the submirror assembly and replace the 60/40 reflective mirror with a 100% reflective mirror, meaning roughly twice the light to the viewfinder. Which would bring back huge viewfinders.
Heck, you could even omit the reflex mirror and go with an electronic viewfinder (though it would still be hard to beat the precision of pure optics IMHO).
Daan B wrote:
Why not add the 6 assist points to the 40D/50D 9 AF points? And besides that, I'd rather have good One Shot performance on the outer AF points for portraiture than better AI Servo with the center AF point when using the 5D2. The 5D2 doesn't strike me as a cam that is going to be used for sports and/or wildlife. This sounds like a Canon brainfart to me...
Daan B wrote:
Why not add the 6 assist points to the 40D/50D 9 AF points? And besides that, I'd rather have good One Shot performance on the outer AF points for portraiture than better AI Servo with the center AF point when using the 5D2. The 5D2 doesn't strike me as a cam that is going to be used for sports and/or wildlife. This sounds like a Canon brainfart to me...
Good question, and I'm surprised that they didn't do something like that. The peripheral AF points are a bit lacking on the 5D, at least when lighting is somewhat low. The cross-type sensors of the 40D would help here. Actually, I fully expected a complete, unique system for this body but that didn't happen. There was a strong rumor about a 19-point AF system that was pretty believable, given that it was coupled with many of the specs that we now see to be true. I wonder if they couldn't quite get a good-working system to market and hence decided to keep the tried-but-true system in the present 5D.
Yes, the 5D isn't marketed as a sports camera but I've had no problems using it in that manner despite the slow frame rate. Sure beats prefocusing on a spot and waiting for the action. And manually winding the film after each shot.
Let us not assume that this 9 point autofocus won't be a vast improvement than the one in the original 5D either.
It is generally accepted also that the best low noise for high iso camera hitherto has been the 1D's mk3 with digic3. So it is reasonable to expect that the 5Dmk2 will be better again.
For $2600 this is quite a camera. I can't wait to get it.
