phibes wrote:
im not sure if "to-crosstype or not" is that important, maybe that feature is overestimated. But marketing-wise it became important, maybe to some as importat as megapixels or lcd-resolution. So from that pov canon made a huge mistake putting an 3 year old unit into a camera thats surrounded by better-featured competitors ... i wonder how canon could fail to realise this ... theres much room between this unit and the 1ds-unit so canon could offer something in between ... i dont get it ...
Not only marketing... You need accurate AF to get the most out of your 21MP's. The outer AF points of the 5D basically sucked. Especially in low light. Where you want good performance to match the ever extending ISO range. Cross points are generally more accurate than single axis AF points.
Justin D wrote:
I think he's suggesting that those with his needs are the people for whom this camera is designed. And that for people with the need of faster AF etc, there's the 1D series. If that's not absolutely perfect for you, but the D700 or whatever is, what are you waiting for?
Right, I should shell out $8000 OR sell all my lenses (L-primes hold their value, but not _all_ their value...) and get a d700?
I have said (in several posts) that the 5d MKII looks good and that I most likely will get one, but it SHOULD be allowed to voice some concern about things like one single cross-type af-point (most likely close to no upgrade from the old 5d) and other issues. I don't see why people get so angry, I did not see anyone get angry when I said "most likely the best sensor" or "great iso capacity", is it just positive feedback that is allowed?
For some people, justifying a 1-series is not an option, neither is selling lots of accumulated lenses, others want a "pro" small form factor body, I guess it is naive of me to think that canon wants to cater to these groups too, but that is me.
Justin D wrote:
I think he's suggesting that those with his needs are the people for whom this camera is designed. And that for people with the need of faster AF etc, there's the 1D series. If that's not absolutely perfect for you, but the D700 or whatever is, what are you waiting for?
How about us 1D users that are in need of a portable and usable (as in AF/WS) back-up cam?
The last 3 years of Canon digital have been a huge, emphasis on huge, series of disappointments, starting with the 5d and moving into the mark III cameras. The 5d is mediocre in all ways except IQ, and the 5d2 will maintain that tradition.
I suspect you'd be one of a very small (however vocal) group in having those opinions. And I have to wonder what you're doing bothering to comment here, given those opinions...
Regardless, no other 35mm format manufacturer could ciompete with Canon on IQ - the bread and butter of image making for most people - until 12 months ago... Now they can - a bit - so Canon will have to respond in the lines where other features count. The 5D was never really one of them - high IQ, basic feature set. Suits me, and the thousands upon thousands of other 5D owners, to a tee.
Once you are locked into a system you would expect the manufacturer to provide as well as others do. It's all very nice for the terminally smug to say 'switch systems' but canon know that most cannot afford to do so and are happily taking advantage with their usual arrogance. We are not servants worshipping at the alter of Canon accepting whatever they give us and accepting that we cannot have a $3000 camera with decent AF and sealing. We are consumers and canon are saying, 'if you want features then you have to pay, we give you no choice. Oh and by the way, we know you can't switch as we've locked you into the system so like it or else'.
The fanboys though are the worst. 'How dare you suggest that canon should provide features in a FF camera for less than the 1Ds mkIII just because the competition does'. What jerkoffs. If you did a poll and asked what people would have prefered, 21 megapixels or AF newer than 3 years old and weather proofing in a 15 megapixel camera I know what the result would have been. Canon however couldn't care less as long as they know that the fanboys will bow to them with whatever they do and the rest cannot go anywhere else anyway....
Sergio Mottola wrote:
are you guys crazy? people complain like "why doesnt canon give us NEW AF SYSTEM AND 5D QUALITY??! for a mid-pro range price?!?!" because then why would anyone buy the 1dsmkii or 1dsmkiii for 8 grand when for 2699 there is a way better camera? they cant give away their product.
Who says Canon has to "protect" the 1-series?
THEY DON'T.
Where do they make most of their money? On the low-end. That's an absolute fact. The high-end is more for prestige, and to try out new technologies / push R&D concepts.
If Canon were to come out, right now, with the greatest camera ever in the history of the world, for $3,500, what would happen? I'll tell you what would happen:
The 1-series owners would be a little miffed, but then they'd get over it and buy the new camera. Heck, they'd all buy TWO.
Everyone else would just buy the new camera, including a boat-load of Nikon shooters.
The 1-series would fade into history. Everyone would be happy, and Canon would make a fortune.
Beni wrote:
Once you are locked into a system you would expect the manufacturer to provide as well as others do. It's all very nice for the terminally smug to say 'switch systems' but canon know that most cannot afford to do so and are happily taking advantage with their usual arrogance. We are not servants worshipping at the alter of Canon accepting whatever they give us and accepting that we cannot have a $3000 camera with decent AF and sealing. We are consumers and canon are saying, 'if you want features then you have to pay, we give you no choice. Oh and by the way, we know you can't switch as we've locked you into the system so like it or else'.
The fanboys though are the worst. 'How dare you suggest that canon should provide features in a FF camera for less than the 1Ds mkIII just because the competition does'. What jerkoffs. If you did a poll and asked what people would have prefered, 21 megapixels or AF newer than 3 years old and weather proofing in a 15 megapixel camera I know what the result would have been. Canon however couldn't care less as long as they know that the fanboys will bow to them with whatever they do and the rest cannot go anywhere else anyway.......Show more →
Beni wrote:
Once you are locked into a system you would expect the manufacturer to provide as well as others do. It's all very nice for the terminally smug to say 'switch systems' but canon know that most cannot afford to do so and are happily taking advantage with their usual arrogance. We are not servants worshipping at the alter of Canon accepting whatever they give us and accepting that we cannot have a $3000 camera with decent AF and sealing. We are consumers and canon are saying, 'if you want features then you have to pay, we give you no choice. Oh and by the way, we know you can't switch as we've locked you into the system so like it or else'.
The fanboys though are the worst. 'How dare you suggest that canon should provide features in a FF camera for less than the 1Ds mkIII just because the competition does'. What jerkoffs. If you did a poll and asked what people would have prefered, 21 megapixels or AF newer than 3 years old and weather proofing in a 15 megapixel camera I know what the result would have been. Canon however couldn't care less as long as they know that the fanboys will bow to them with whatever they do and the rest cannot go anywhere else anyway.......Show more →
By switching you will loose some money... OTOH when sticking to a system that bothers/frutrates you, you will loose your mental health
And Canon doesn't give a c@#$ about this
But trust me, one day it is going to backfire at them
I am thoroughly confused and dissappointed by the Canon’s product development approach in 5D Mark II. To me, Canon is in a no win situation. I think everyone would agree that if 5D-2’s ISO performance does not AT LEAST match up to the D3/D700, 5D-2 is dead on arrival. The high-end market has been screaming “We don’t want more pixels. We want better pixels!!!” This was validated by the tremendous success of D3/D700.
Let’s first assume that 5D-2 does meet the market expectation and give us a extreme low noise sensor, the question is why in the world Canon want to do it on a 21MP sensor? The consumer would have been perfectly happy with the performance on a 16 or 17MP sensor. If Canon 5D-2’s 21MP sensor can really deliver D3’s ISO performance, the IDs Mark III will basically become obsolete in any practical sense. Something smaller, lighter, cheaper and lower-noise vs. something larger, heavier, more expensive and higher noise? Hard choice! And why would Canon risk that is really beyond my imagination or comprehension. On the other hand, if 5D-2 DOES NOT deliver on ISO performance, then whoever at Canon had developed this product should be shot! Like some of you had suggested, they just might have decided to put the 1Ds Mark III sensor in 5D-2. If this is what really happened, first, the 1Ds Mark III again will become a dinosaur. And second, Canon will continue to loss more market share to Nikon as the high-end market is putting ever more emphasis on ISO performance over pixel count. This approach would only make sense under two assumptions. 1. Canon already sold 80% (or greater) of what they think they can sell on the 1Ds-3. Second, Canon simply does not have the comparable technology as Nikon thus it has no choice but to offer more pixel to stay competitive. But either way, this is no win situation for Canon I am afraid.
snowboarder wrote:
I've tried... Moisture gets inside easily...
AF and no weatherproofing is a huge disappointment.
But I'll buy it anyway like everybody else. And Canon knows that...
I need a new FF body for low light work, for this both the D700 and 5D2 should do well, and I will look carefully at both over the next few months. However, I am also interested in portrait work and worry about the availability of usefully placed focus points, I don't always want to focus slap bang in the middle of the viewfinder.
Does it look like the autofocus on the new 5D2 will be good for portrait work?
By the way, you don't have to dump your entire system to use a different brand. Here in the UK I could buy a Nikon D700 and Nikkor 85mm f1.8 (for my portrait work) for less than the 5D2 body at the moment. For me a dual setup is a realistic option, I don't have to sell all my Canon glass.
How about us 1D users that are in need of a portable and usable (as in AF/WS) back-up cam?
Canon doesn't make one. Nikon doesn't make an affordable high res body. They didn't make a decent IQ body until 12 months ago. I don't understand what the problem here is - Canon decided to continue the line of what is probably one of its most successful bodies as they had a winning formula: a low spec, high IQ body. Some users are left without a 'backup' camera. I guess that's the decision Canon made - it's not as if they haven't continued the lines they have been producing for however long... What made you decide to shoot Canon that locked you into their lens mount however many years ago? Sure as hell couldn't have been any suggestion from Canon that they would ever produce a compact sports body with weather sealing.
Just as a matter of interest, has anyone seen the difference in pricing, the camera is the equivelent of $800 (£400) more in the UK than Europe. Is that normal? I know the dollar divide is usually huge but didn't know that the Euro would be so much cheaper. Especially given the price of cheap flights to Europe! The Europe warranty should be accepted in the UK. What is weird is just how much cheaper Nikon is in the UK relative to Canon. The D700 is only a fraction more expensive than in the US but the 5D mkII is £600 more expensive than the D700. Wow. Don't think the same thing is true for the lenses though, just the bodies.
Yakim Peled wrote:
I once handled a 1D Mk III and was absolutely flabbergasted but I simply dare not buy it. You see, I want to buy it from someone who does not want to sell it...
I don't want to sell my 1Ds3, but it's for sale. My use is very specific: I photograph parties, and never sport or PJ. I bought the 1Ds3 as a stopgap when one of my 5D's failed, purely because I wanted to be able to shoot at ISO 12800, which the 1Ds3 does very well. It has done a sterling job and is the best camera I have ever used, in every respect, by a long way. But I don't need the instant response, excellent AF, weather sealing, bullet proof body, long shutter life, and all the other goodies that make using it such a great pleasure. If I were a more general type of photographer, I would certainly keep it, but it's beyond my needs, so I will settle for 2 5D2's. I was perfectly happy with the original 5D's after all, as they were good enough for my limited use. My 1Ds3 is in buy&sell, all offers considered.
? The consumer would have been perfectly happy with the performance on a 16 or 17MP sensor. If Canon 5D-2’s 21MP sensor can really deliver D3’s ISO performance, the IDs Mark III will basically become obsolete in any practical sense. Something smaller, lighter, cheaper and lower-noise vs. something larger, heavier, more expensive and higher noise