I have a scientific test for you. Take canon's early professional dslr in terms of high iso shots and compare it to their latest offering. Do the same with nikon and tell me which company improved the most in high iso performance across the generations.
I am sure everyone will be happy with those results.
panos.v wrote:
I find this thread just amazing. A guy asks whether someone with a D3 is available in London so that they can go to the pub and try some photo geekery and we now have 4 pages of comments from people outside London, actually oustide this whole damn country bar 1 poster, who attack the methodologies, motives, intelligence or anything else of the OP.
Do you guys really try to turn this into a trolling post? I didn't see anything offensive or trollish in the original question and I didn't see any point in any of your replys when only a simple "yes, I can do next Saturday at 6pm" would be relevant. I've seen brainiac's other threads but that doesn't mean he might no be entitled to asking a D3 user for a comparison.
Who cares how it's done. It's for his own pleasure and test. And sounds like much better than the standard brick wall (TM) shot....Show more →
I agree. But don't get your hopes up about anything better than a brick wall shot. I went to my dealer yesterday to use a demo D700. I was very short of time though, because we were on our way to see this gentleman: http://cyberphotographer.com/1ds3/pistols.jpg
I used a new Nikkor 85 f1.4, and set aperture and shutter speed manually. Unfortunately I couldn't work out how to use the aperture ring on the D700 - the camera gave me an error unless it was set to f16, so I just have to trust that the electronically set f5.6 sets the aperture to precisely the same size as the f5.6 setting on the aperture ring.
I processed in NX straight, with noise reduction on. NX noise reduction does a fantastic job, and I would be surprised if it can be beat. Without NR the file had none of the large scale chroma noise patches from which all Canon's seem to suffer. I don't know if this is to do with chroma NR built-in to the camera, or just the sensor output itself, but the D700 certainly has a lead in terms of smooth colour, before NR is applied.
I processed the 1Ds3 file in DPP, but used NeatImage to do the noise reduction. I switched off high frequency NR and only used a tiny amount of luminance NR in NeatImage, so that's one difference that's easy to spot. I still found that shadows are lumpier in the 1Ds3 file, so I applied a dust and scratches type NR to the extreme shadows. However, the 1Ds3 shadows seemed to show slightly more latitude than the D700, so I darkened them a little to match the Nikon file.
I have downrezzed the 1Ds3 file to D700 size. At ISO 12800 there is very little extra detail above 12 megapixels; although you can see it, it's not important.
BTW, I should ignore the difference in sharpness as on reflection I think that must be due to camera shake. The shutter speed was 1/250th. I did this test to look at noise and high ISO performance, so very slight camera shake does little to mask the noise and dynamic range characteristics. Also, the disappearance of the blue stapler is due to the fact that the fellow at the desk put a brochure on his keyboard which put the stapler in shadow.
I will do more when I have time but it may not be for a few days...
nirito wrote:
I have a scientific test for you. Take canon's early professional dslr in terms of high iso shots and compare it to their latest offering. Do the same with nikon and tell me which company improved the most in high iso performance across the generations.
They'll be so far behind today that it's not of any interest to me. But for the record, ever since I switched to Canon for the 5D, I have been a full frame junkie. I am very glad Nikon decided to enter that arena with both fists flying, both for the competition, and because it's a great improvement for those who didn't want to switch.
brainiac wrote:
I used a new Nikkor 85 f1.4, and set aperture and shutter speed manually. Unfortunately I couldn't work out how to use the aperture ring on the D700 - the camera gave me an error unless it was set to f16, so I just have to trust that the electronically set f5.6 sets the aperture to precisely the same size as the f5.6 setting on the aperture ring.
You need to setup the custom functions to tell the camera you're using the ring. In any case, I guess we can more or less trust the camera to set it to the correct aperture electronically.
I processed in NX straight, with noise reduction on. NX noise reduction does a fantastic job, and I would be surprised if it can be beat. Without NR the file had none of the large scale chroma noise patches from which all Canon's seem to suffer. I don't know if this is to do with chroma NR built-in to the camera, or just the sensor output itself, but the D700 certainly has a lead in terms of smooth colour, before NR is applied.
This has been the general theme until recently. Canon had less lumi noise and more chroma, Nikon the other way around.
look i'm with you on this one. but do me a favor.
1- turn off all NR on both camera bodies
2- shoot raw and process w/o NR equal weight on conversions to what ever format. lowest compression as possible if jpg. use a tripod to prevent the human factor as much as possible.
3- do not use any form of post production other then to attempt to match images in size. that means no NR no sharpening.
just see what each camera produces right as close to right out of the camera as possible.
sjms wrote:
look i'm with you on this one. but do me a favor.
1- turn off all NR on both camera bodies
2- shoot raw and process w/o NR equal weight on conversions to what ever format. lowest compression as possible if jpg. use a tripod to prevent the human factor as much as possible.
3- do not use any form of post production other then to attempt to match images in size. that means no NR no sharpening.
just see what each camera produces right as close to right out of the camera as possible.
thats what its all about
I'm interested in what I have to hand over to my clients. I wouldn't hand over a non-noise-reduced 12800 ISO file from either camera. What the files look like before noise reduction at ISO 12800 isn't important to me. I made clear my proposed method of comparison on page 1 of this thread so it should come as no surprise that noise reduction is applied.
no first you see what the look like before stomp on them your on special way. that is the bare naked truth. when you start to put your feelings and adjustments into it it is no longer a fact.
with you modifying it to your standard which for nikons images you really have none the test is null. so essentially a wash. it like playing with a loaded deck. it only good if its to your taste. it is then subjective rather then objective. sorry that does not work.
sjms wrote:
no first you see what the look like before stomp on them your on special way. that is the bare naked truth. when you start to put your feelings and adjustments into it it is no longer a fact.
with you modifying it to your standard which for nikons images you really have none the test is null. so essentially a wash. it like playing with a loaded deck. it only good if its to your taste. it is then subjective rather then objective. sorry that does not work.
So maybe I missed something... but which one is which in the crop? From your description I'm guessing D700 is the left side 1DsMkIII the right?
I greatly prefer the luminance noise in the left crop to the chroma noise in the right one. Either way both are impressive results at 12800, much better than the print film I used to occasionally use at 1600 for clients.
Correct, Jammy, D700 on left, 1Ds3 on right. In both cases the 1Ds3 file has been reduced to 4256 pixels wide. I switched off high frequency chroma NR in the NR'ed 1Ds3 version. With HF chroma NR on, it looks even more like the D700 file. Also a little more luminance NR in NeatImage, and I think the two files would be fairly difficult to tell apart. The Nikons usually have a warmer cast - Canon's are often a bit green, but that's mainly a colour balance and hue/sat issue.
What happened to civility around here? Nikon forum was known for having intelligent and friendly dialog even if it involved Canon folks visiting to ask questions or debate hardware issues. Just the civility and unity of the forum was powerful enough to quench trolls, but looks like the bar has been dropping.
If you can't make your point without getting abusive, then what are you really proving?
AJ Nadershahi wrote:
What happened to civility around here? Nikon forum was known for having intelligent and friendly dialog even if it involved Canon folks visiting to ask questions or debate hardware issues. Just the civility and unity of the forum was powerful enough to quench trolls, but looks like the bar has been dropping.
If you can't make your point without getting abusive, then what are you really proving?
My post was in a joking manner if you were talking to me and didn't notice the which is used to indicate sticking your tongue out at someone letting them know you are joking on the internet.....
