fredmiranda.com
Login

Moderated by: Fred Miranda
Sports Corner Rules
Sports Corner Resource
  

FM Forums | Sports Corner | Join Upload & Sell

1              3       end
  

Archive 2008 · How to get in? HS football ?

  
 
Zander Alberts
Offline
• • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.2 #1 · How to get in? HS football ?


Bear, we're not out to get you. But many of the people on this board like Lee and Russ have established themselves as excellent photographers with many years of experience and top of the line equipment. They also charge professional prices for their professional products. They work for their gear, their access and their respect. But when someone comes in and says that it's no problem to shoot any game anytime and with inappropriate equipment, for FREE, nonetheless, it makes more than a few unhappy.

I, for one, had to spend a great deal of time obtaining my press credentials from the local paper and from the state athletic association to have access to all sporting events. Encouraging someone to waltz on out onto a field without a second thought and perhaps give away photos is not something many of us would condone. That certainly wouldn't work at any playoff game here in Oregon, you either have a media credential, or you're in the stands.



Aug 31, 2008 at 12:26 AM
bear78
Offline

Upload & Sell: Off
p.2 #2 · How to get in? HS football ?


Zander Alberts wrote:
Bear, we're not out to get you. But many of the people on this board like Lee and Russ have established themselves as excellent photographers with many years of experience and top of the line equipment. They also charge professional prices for their professional products. They work for their gear, their access and their respect. But when someone comes in and says that it's no problem to shoot any game anytime and with inappropriate equipment, for FREE, nonetheless, it makes more than a few unhappy.

I, for one, had to spend a great deal of time obtaining my press
...Show more


Well I respect people on here that have worked their way up. Like I said early, gotta start somewhere. Trust me, I could get whatever price I want. The parents love the shots. I did not give away the playoff shots, I actually didn't post them till I got permission from the school. I know the laws. Plus they liked mine a lot more than the guy they hired. Also I live in a small town. I know I wouldn't have been able to do that anywhere else. I was expecting at anytime to be kicked out.

I do feel stupid for my "just walk on" comment and I apologize. With all the crazy people out there you can't trust everyone. remember, small town here.

Also I have an agreement with the high school. They were looking for a photographer, but the other photog's were "to good for them" as the coach told me. So I thought I would offer my service. Remember this is only high school and it's a small town. People love that I'm doing this and even though I'm offering free downloads, parents are buying prints, granted they are cheap, not much more than cost. but once again I'm doing this as a service to a High School.

I'm tired, sorry my typing sucks and I don't come off right.

Sorry again,
Mike



Aug 31, 2008 at 12:44 AM
genoph
Offline
• • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.2 #3 · How to get in? HS football ?


Wow, that's sad.

So I shoot highschool sports all the time. Maybe we're a little more relaxed here in Canada, or because I'm a student, but I just walk onto the sidelines and start shooting, like everyone else on the field. Or under the net at a basketball game or beside the net referee at Volleyball etc. I've always got wherever gets me the best position, walk there and act as if I'm supposed to be there.

Now, worse case scenario some parent asks me why I've got the best seat in the house, and I tell them yearbook, because I throw a few photo's that way for free, which is great publicity because every student gets one. I guess this would be my credentials, but I think Mike has some too by the looks of things. Maybe ask for the full story.

As for my fee's, I don't do this for free, I usually charge for prints, or digital copies if they decide that a CD is worth 50-75 dollars. But I also shoot for free on occasion, because really, if your money's in hs sports, that's sad. Really sad. (save for those crazy event setup's at fat tourney's, that's pretty intense and they make a buck). That being said, those who do it for the community thing piss me off. And this is a completely selfish reaction on my part, and I think these people are noble and I'm glad some people are willing to. I have a girl at my hs whose father nearly has a monopoly on commercial arials in town and he shoots shots for everyone on whatever team she plays on for free. Does it make me happy, no, but I live with it.

Now, as for what I shoot with. I never use flash. I'd be shot. That being said, I shoot during the day for something like football. So might other people (gasp). Even indoor I use fast primes because I don't have the flash I need. I agree, I find flash blaringly obvious and detracting unless you've got a off camera strobe setup, and then you've got to deal with colour temp of flash vs. whatever else.

End of the story, I want to say that attacking another member, epecially a newer member which I can count myself among doesn't benefit this community here. There are so many ways everyone could have said everything that has been said in a way that did not attack the OP. Now that you've taken something from the community we'll probably never see again, please think about the damage you're doing with every keystroke. Please. No one's thanking you for slamming am's. That's just asking for the death of an art, look at skateboarding.

And Mike, stop saying sorry. Some people will never understand a town where you know everyone, it's a special world

More on topic, just ask, start asking, even if it's just for practice, High school's either have no policy or have a very strict one. PHone their office and ask to speak with the coach, you'll probably leave a message because they're busy people.

Edited on Aug 31, 2008 at 01:01 AM



Aug 31, 2008 at 12:54 AM
kiz5
Offline
• • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.2 #4 · How to get in? HS football ?


genoph: The reason why it's different for us in Canada, is because of the rights and laws. We're allowed to photograph whoever (at least in Ontario), and model releases aren't needed, nor is permission. It's just a different world for us. Add to it, daytime HS football is also something we get, luckily.


Aug 31, 2008 at 01:21 AM
leewoolery
Offline
• • • •
Upload & Sell: On
p.2 #5 · How to get in? HS football ?


Arc Studios wrote:
There are a few photographers at our local local highschool games shooting away on the field. How would I go about getting on the field? What is the most profitable way of selling your images after the game? Just online proofing? We have a studio now that is in a high traffic area. The same people have shot these games for years and they use flash yuk I would much rather have a parent hire me and stick to getting great shots of them for a few hundred bucks. Anyone ever done that? Whats a good approach to
...Show more

Arc Studios:

In looking at your website, I see no mention or samples of sports/action photography...but maybe I missed something.

If you have a portfolio of action images and any experience shooting sports, I'd contact the local high school athletic director to see if they have a photo contract in place.

I see local and national portrait studios chains with high school photography contracts for school portraits, dances, teams and individuals and yearbook but very few have qualified sports/action photographers on staff.

Anyone who's been operating in the sports side of the photography business for any length of time will tell you the real money with any high school or youth league contract is with the pre-season, pre-paid team and individual photo packages...not action photography....alone.

I have two high school contracts and both require action photography but I sell these images because I have a marketing program in place with the pre-season team and individuals and agreements with the athletic office and booster/parent clubs for photographic services.

In addition, there is so much money to be made with a comprehensive high school photography contract with non-sports-related sales from seniors, dances, plays and other school activities that you can justify covering more events.

However...if you don't see any professional photographers...except newspaper...covering your local high sporting events, it could be that there is no market.

Much success,

Lee Woolery
Speedshot Photo


Edited on Aug 31, 2008 at 07:57 AM



Aug 31, 2008 at 07:50 AM
J4644
Offline
• • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.2 #6 · How to get in? HS football ?


Hey Mike,

Don't let the negative feedback bother you all that much. Take a deep breath and regroup. This forum, like any other forum has it's positives and it's negatives.

Jim



Aug 31, 2008 at 08:12 AM
Arc Studios
Offline
• •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.2 #7 · How to get in? HS football ?


thanks for all your help guys

Edited by Arc Studios on Sep 12, 2008 at 09:29 AM GMT

Edited on Sep 12, 2008 at 09:29 AM



Aug 31, 2008 at 09:08 AM
Tim Speciale
Offline
• • • • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.2 #8 · How to get in? HS football ?


1. It's America. People can do what they want to do and this includes giving services away. I know how to fix bikes. I sometimes do it for free. This screws the local mechanics...or something.

2. If you have a product and you're giving it away, you're hurting yourself and your hurting other photographers.

Do what you want. Worry about yourself. If someone around you is giving away free photographs and it's hurting your sales...take better photographs.



Aug 31, 2008 at 09:35 AM
leewoolery
Offline
• • • •
Upload & Sell: On
p.2 #9 · How to get in? HS football ?


Arc Studios wrote:
Thanks all for the advice. There is a contract, so I have heard, so I will contact the school and see.

I don't wanna use a flash because I know I can get away with 3200 iso on my d3. Everyone else at the games are shooting d200's and older canon mark's and popping off flashes. I know most of them and they use P mode. ha. Ive shot plenty of little league games and alot of baseball stuff with younger kids. Ive also shot video on the sidelines for HS a year ago for a local tv station so
...Show more

Arc Studios:

Lighting at your typical high school football field isn't very good...ISO 3200 @ 1/125 is the best you can do at some I've shot at...if you can get a decent exposure with available light, you have some every harsh shadows cast across the player's faces after the sun goes down and the stadium lights are all you have to work with. This is why you need to use flash...to fill in the faces and to add pop.

I had to shoot a game the other night at ISO 6400 with a Mark III and no flash because of a constant threat of rain however the Mark II's that I've used for years do an incredible job at ISO 3200 with a small amount of fill flash.

You will also need to show the school's athletic director that you can shoot action....a portfolio of wedding photos, senior portraits or studio shots or your word just won't get it. Church lighting and stadium lighting are very different and most brides don't require 1/500 second to freeze movement.

Besides...high school AD's get constantly hounded by aspiring, would-be sports photographers or parents simply wanting to gain field access and/or trying to make a few bucks with sports snapshots. In most cases...if you're not working media or an official school photographer, they won't give you the time of day.

Field access is becoming a real problem for some high schools and youth leagues and school/league officials don't want the sidelines cluttered with individuals who could get hurt or interfere with play. I witnessed two incidents this week ( one at a high school soccer match and another at a youth league football game) where parent photographers were told to get back in their seats and off the field to take pictures of their children.

If I didn't have the exclusive photo contracts for the two high schools I shoot for, I wouldn't waste my time showing up to take action photos.

Lee Woolery
Speedshot Photo


Edited by leewoolery on Aug 31, 2008 at 04:59 PM GMT

Edited on Aug 31, 2008 at 11:59 AM



Aug 31, 2008 at 11:53 AM
Zander Alberts
Offline
• • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.2 #10 · How to get in? HS football ?


Talk to your local paper to see if they can grant you access if you are willing to freelance for them, also talk to the AD. Bring a fast zoom and maybe a 50 1.8/1.4 and be prepared to shoot at 3200, I usually am able to get 1/500 at 3200.

Be sure to bring a portfolio when applying for access to seperate yourself from the rebel toting parents.



Aug 31, 2008 at 11:58 AM
Arc Studios
Offline
• •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.2 #11 · How to get in? HS football ?


Thanks again for the other that have chimed in. Again does anyone have any kind of numbers they are pulling in from a typical game? I know all areas of the country are different and it will take some time to get my name out (already out for weddings and portraits) but if no one here breaks 200-300 a game I will not even try. Not worth my time if that is the case.


Aug 31, 2008 at 05:41 PM
Zander Alberts
Offline
• • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.2 #12 · How to get in? HS football ?


I am work for the paper and sell $200-300 per sport per season... not per game. I am in a small town though. The general consensous though is that action shots alone will not make you rich.


Aug 31, 2008 at 05:50 PM
jsg5415
Offline

Upload & Sell: Off
p.2 #13 · How to get in? HS football ?


Overall...the advice you are giving here is very bad...all the way around. I would also join Russ in asking to see these "un-flashed freebie masterpieces" because I would like to get rid of my professional flashes and purchase a better sports camera than the Mark III I'm forced to use on the sidelines of high school football games.

Are you sure your advice is better? 95% of the football stadiums and hockey arenas I shoot at do not allow flashes to be used by the "official" photogs. The risk of temporarily blinding a player or ref is too great.



Aug 31, 2008 at 05:59 PM
WmPat
Offline
• • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.2 #14 · How to get in? HS football ?


Arc Studios wrote:
Thanks again for the other that have chimed in. Again does anyone have any kind of numbers they are pulling in from a typical game? I know all areas of the country are different and it will take some time to get my name out (already out for weddings and portraits) but if no one here breaks 200-300 a game I will not even try. Not worth my time if that is the case.

If making $200-300 per game is where you think you will break even for the shoot to be worth your time I'd recommend that you get some commitments in advance. You likely won't be able to pick up that kind of return just by showing up and passing some business cards around and chatting it up with parents, etc. I've had a few assignments from parents that pay near to those numbers but they are always arranged ahead of time. And unless they are in a hurry to get the pics, I always shoot at least twice to get their kid in home and away uniforms, and if possible, a day game.

Most of the people I know that are shooting weddings consider sports a lot less profitable, and only do it for the fun of being on a sideline. If making money is your priority you might reach your goals faster by honing your skills and working hard to expand your wedding business.

Edited on Aug 31, 2008 at 06:16 PM



Aug 31, 2008 at 06:12 PM
Scott Sewell
Offline
• • • • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.2 #15 · How to get in? HS football ?


jsg5415 wrote:
Are you sure your advice is better? 95% of the football stadiums and hockey arenas I shoot at do not allow flashes to be used by the "official" photogs. The risk of temporarily blinding a player or ref is too great.




Interesting. I have never shot at a HS field where they had any problem whatsoever with a photographer using flash. When the hockey team is in season, I would guess they wouldn't have a problem with it either, considering they play in the same venue I've strobed many times before for other sports.

This "blind the athletes" argument is just not valid, in my experience. I would give anything if someone would do a formal study of the issue but I've never seen one. So, we can only rely on our own personal experiences. My experience has been that never--not once--has a coach, player or game official had a problem with me strobing an event. In fact, I've only had two parents even comment and they were curious what I was doing and weren't complaining.

On the flip side, I typically see a substantial increase in my sales of photos that are strobed, especially with basketball and volleyball. Yes, dare I say, I strobe volleyball. In fact, one local coach prefers it. His team has been state champs twice in the last four years and he has specifically told me my strobes have never been a problem and his players have never noticed them.

Again, this isn't scientific evidence and I've not done a formal study. But I am certain my perspective is every bit as valid as those comments casually tossed out about "95 percent" of all football and hockey facilities won't allow flash because of the risk of "blinding" athletes.

Edited on Aug 31, 2008 at 06:22 PM



Aug 31, 2008 at 06:21 PM
John P Mulgrew
Offline
• • • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.2 #16 · How to get in? HS football ?


Scott I wonder how blinded a person can be by either a flash or strobe when they are focused. I'm guessing if a RB is running straight at you looking at your flash and smiling then maybe he'll see some blue spots but that will be from picking his head up off the ground when he gets nailed for not paying attention. Maybe with volleyball being white it could be a bit of an issue but hey they make balls with blue stripes in them


Aug 31, 2008 at 06:25 PM
bobbyz
Offline
• • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.2 #17 · How to get in? HS football ?


Scott, dumb question - Why no flash for baseball?


Aug 31, 2008 at 06:25 PM
leewoolery
Offline
• • • •
Upload & Sell: On
p.2 #18 · How to get in? HS football ?


jsg5415 wrote:
Are you sure your advice is better? 95% of the football stadiums and hockey arenas I shoot at do not allow flashes to be used by the "official" photogs. The risk of temporarily blinding a player or ref is too great.


I'm just talking high school football...not professional or college...not hockey.

Lee Woolery
Speeedshot Photo



Aug 31, 2008 at 06:51 PM
dpmurray
Offline
• • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.2 #19 · How to get in? HS football ?


Like someone else pointed out, unflashed football means some really bad shadows (even if you can shoot at 3200 or 1600). Lights on HS fields are usually two poles on each side with 6-15 lights per pole. If you are lucky there's a third pole on each side. It isn't the pros where the lights curve around to the corners.

I'm into my third year of flash football. There just isn't another way to do it at this level.

Back to the original poster, in all of the games I've shot in Georgia I've never been stopped going on to the field. There are usually PWC's there as well. Now, I wouldn't venture to start selling if you haven't been cleared through either the booster club or the AD.



Aug 31, 2008 at 09:05 PM
Craig Gillette
Offline
• • • • •
Upload & Sell: Off
p.2 #20 · How to get in? HS football ?


It's important to remember that an athletic field may be a "public" field, we have some fields shared by multiple schools in parks, others are on public school campuses but they aren't "public" in the sense a sidewalk is. The school or owner has the right to control access to their property. If you happen to live and work where there is a small population and limited "competition" for sidelines, the "best seat"' or the like, then that's a plus but that kind of access is a privilege and not a right. Likewise access or opportunity to take a picture doesn't mean that one has unlimited rights in what they can do with it.


Aug 31, 2008 at 10:56 PM
1              3       end




FM Forums | Sports Corner | Join Upload & Sell

1              3       end
    
 

Welcome back
Log in to your account