I appreciate that not all people place the same weight on an AF system when it comes to selection of a particular body or camera system. Some however do.
I would believe that it would take some considerable time to develop an Autofocus system. I say this without any real knowledge to support this claim
Canon's AF sytem seems to fall into 2 catagories.
1. Prosumer 9 point, now all cross type
2. Pro 45 point - with several configurations.
The 50D's reported superior AF to that of the 40D seems to be explained by the faster Digic IV processor so there is no real development in the system.
The problems with Canon's new 45 pt AF system via the 1DmkIII and 1DsmkIII have been well documented. I would believe that Canon will have to have a different pro AF system to distance the next 1D from the mkIII's.
The leaked/rumoured specs of the 5DII suggest a 19 pt AF system. Is this a totally new system. Is it the 9 pt with invisible points similar to the 5D's invisible points.
I would be interested in hearing people's thoughts/speculation on Canon's need for a revised AF system and what they would like to see.
However, all I really need is QUALITY CONTROL! There should not be any dust on the sensor/viewfinder on a $3k camera. Lenses should not have to been sent in for calibration. Also IMO a person should NEVER have to send a device repeatedly to a service center to have it properly serviced.
Been using the 40D only and I think the placement of the 9 points could be better (like Pentax). I have also found the joystick difficult to use when in a hurry.
The problems with Canon's new 45 pt AF system via the 1DmkIII and 1DsmkIII have been well documented. I would believe that Canon will have to have a different pro AF system to distance the next 1D from the mkIII's.
But when you look at those awefull soft images ...
many are Out of Focus Everywhere.
The 45 point focus may suck but then the sensor clean may also.
FUZZY LEAKS of voltage
Funny another manufacture seems doing well on 51 pt focus.
Compound problem it appears and big problem with those having Canon 1D M3 and 1DS M3. These cameras may require more "smarts" to use than many owners have or even the existing Digi 3 logic can handel.
It also appears to need more patience than the average "low trained" photographer has and certainly more than what a customer has {Zero Tolerance}.
But then if its Low Paying Sports compared to Madison Ave Advertising ...
It needs to work out of the box.
Its a camera ,,, just Shoot with it !!
I will stick to my classic 5d and trusty 20d and its focus for weddings sports vacation etc other low pay stuff.
But when it comes to Advertising with my Bigger clients ...
Its Mamiya Phase One 645 MFDSLR all the way baby !!!
"Maybee" Canon will get act together in next generation - maybe not.
Anyway its going to take at least several months of glowing reviews in a re and correctly engineered model iff I buy one.
EL
Edited by elfanucchi on Aug 30, 2008 at 06:00 AM GMT
I feel Canon have had some conceptual problem of sorts with the AF system all along.
Perhaps it is only when they tried to "turbo charge" it for the MkIII camera that the scheme has started to unravel itself.
A few observations with the MkII(N) cameras made me feel that way:
(1) Hard to see any empirical evidence of the claimed AF predictive behaviour.
(2) Different AF sensitivity adjustment settings seem to make little, none or even unexpected difference, depending on circumstances.
(3) In auto AF point selection mode the target pickup by different AF points is often sloppy or hit and miss.
I hope that their next generation 1D cameras will incorporate an AF system which is well engineered first and foremost, before letting IT young'uns have their way with firmware coding.
If the 5DII does indeed become a reality at Photokina it will be interesting to see its AF system. One feels it needs to be a step up from the 40D/50D 9 pt system to compete with Nikons 51 pt for its D700.
I wonder if Canon has had sufficient time to rethink and engineer its AF systems for the next release or if its some sort of compromise. If its the rumoured 19 pt system it sounds like a compromise system to me.
ozhop wrote:
The problems with Canon's new 45 pt AF system via the 1DmkIII and 1DsmkIII have been well documented. I would believe that Canon will have to have a different pro AF system to distance the next 1D from the mkIII's.
Based on my own experience with two 1Ds3 duds and one goody, the mkIII AF problems are QC related rather than design related. Some AF problems also seem to be related to user adaptation issues. We will have to see wether Canon will replace the mkIII AF that easily. Maybe they only will do some serious tweaking.
Daan B wrote:
Based on my own experience with two 1Ds3 duds and one goody, the mkIII AF problems are QC related rather than design related. Some AF problems also seem to be related to user adaptation issues. We will have to see wether Canon will replace the mkIII AF that easily. Maybe they only will do some serious tweaking.
Most QC problems are Design problems. The general public thinks its the factory workers that cause QC problems, when in reality 90 % of QC disasters are poor design (usually poor tolerancing).
rhyder wrote:
Most QC problems are Design problems. The general public thinks its the factory workers that cause QC problems, when in reality 90 % of QC disasters are poor design (usually poor tolerancing).
Call it whatever you will. In a way you could also argue that some design issues are QC related. I think there is more to it. The designing and manufacturing of a DSLR is a complex procedure. Things can obviously go wrong. However, as a customer I am not interested in that. The fact is that there are malfunctioning and proper working mkIII's out there. I know, because I have had both. The proper working 1Ds3 is as at least good as any other DSLR regarding AF. The malfunctioning one was a nightmare. To me the proper working unit represents the standard
I would like Canon to build all its lenses in a way that every copy is close to the published MTF charts. When they continue to sell a model that they know many copies are mediocre it's no longer just poor quality control, but fraud.
They know they sold many 16-35 mkI that did not meet spec. Did they admit to the problem? No, they came out with the MKII, which also appears to be inconsistent quality.
Great strategy. First lens has problems they'll sell us a new one. Waiting for mkIII.
By contrast I think the quality control on the bodies is good. With the rate of introduction there are going to be problems at times. Bodies are on the bleeding edge, lenses are not. I don't get why they don't do better with some of the lens models.
ozhop wrote:
The leaked/rumoured specs of the 5DII suggest a 19 pt AF system. Is this a totally new system. Is it the 9 pt with invisible points similar to the 5D's invisible points.
The old 5D uses the 9 pt AF + 6 invisible points for tracking.
So, the rumored 19 pt AF system is obviously new.
But 19 is still not a large number, I'm afraid. After all's been said and done, people still judge the superiority of a camera based on NUMBERS: how many megapixels, what is the ISO range, how many AF points etc.
JonStafford wrote:
Looks like Canon is having to spend it's time and resources playing catch-up instead of innovating new ideas.
Hmmm... how long did it take Nikon to arrive at the D3/D700 imaging sensor? And that did not even surpass the 1Ds3 sensor performance at the image (not pixel) level. The D300 sensor performance is nearly as good as the 40D, although the read noise is still twice as large.
Next, how long has Nikon been using their paltry 11 AF pt sensor? Mind you, this primitive AF sensor was even used in their professional sports camera (remember the D1H, D2H?).
BTW, how long has Canon been putting out super tele lenses with IS functionality? When did Nikon start to produce more tilt-shift lenses?
Now, tell me, who is playing catch-up?
Mind you, if the 50D 15 MP imaging sensor performs as well as the 1D3, Nikon/Sony engineers will be sent back to their drawing boards for the next 5 years. You call that playing catch-up?
I thought the AF point array on the 1d3 is pretty lame- it takes forever to select the point you actually want, and toggling between the inner and outside points... though I've been pretty loyal to Canon, I tried out a D3 and man it was a breeze selecting even 51 points.
I would believe that it would take some considerable time to develop an Autofocus system. I say this without any real knowledge to support this claim
Canon's AF sytem seems to fall into 2 catagories.
1. Prosumer 9 point, now all cross type
2. Pro 45 point - with several configurations.
Not true. The Rebel XSi (450D) has 9 sensors, but only the center is a cross type. The Xs (1000D) has only 7 sensors and one cross. And the 5D is still current and yet has one cross and 6 single axis plus 6 "invisible" sensors for AI servo...
Edited by Gochugogi on Aug 30, 2008 at 08:09 AM GMT
orangefirefish wrote:
I thought the AF point array on the 1d3 is pretty lame- it takes forever to select the point you actually want, and toggling between the inner and outside points... though I've been pretty loyal to Canon, I tried out a D3 and man it was a breeze selecting even 51 points.
With the newer firmware it is possible to select any of the 1D3 19 AF points with the joystick. Easy does it
Daan B wrote:
With the newer firmware it is possible to select any of the 1D3 19 AF points with the joystick. Easy does it
Yup- that was an improvement, however, it was still clunky to shift from the inner to the outer in two different steps. And then... what was billed as 45 points only allowed selection of 19. Plus on top of that some of the models weren't exactly focusing right for people. *sigh*
You call that playing catch-up?