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Archive 2008 · Primes only?

  
 
tmr_wa
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p.5 #1 · Primes only?


I prefer using primes for selective depth of field that can be attained when using a sharp prime lens wide open. I use primes most of the time. But, when I'm in the mood for landscapes, zooms are very tough to beat, especially since I'm usually stopping down anyways. On a beach or on a hillside, sometimes it's just not practical to move around and worse yet, I dislike changing lenses in the field.

If forced to choose, I would abandon my zooms in favor of primes.

--tom



Aug 28, 2008 at 10:58 PM
Dark Slider
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p.5 #2 · Primes only?



This reminds me a lot of sailboat vs. powerboat arguments. Pointless, as the people who are going to get the most out of life enjoy both.

P.S. I have a Ford, and a Chevy.




Aug 28, 2008 at 11:03 PM
Sorensiim
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p.5 #3 · Primes only?


Spyro P. wrote:
Ok I was thinking about it last night and I have a few minutes, so I might as well put down my thoughts. These things are applicable to me, YMMV:

- I'm a street tog, not a studio or sports tog. These guys already have very interesting subjects, models, athletes, whatever, they dont really expect much or need much from a lens. As long as its sharp, free of distortions/aberrations and focusing quickly, they're usually happy. I dont have interesting subjects, most times I try to make something interesting out of something uninteresting, using anything I can: Light, lens, my
...Show more

If I ever get to australia, I'll look you up. We seem to shoot and think in much the same way.



Aug 29, 2008 at 12:53 AM
Spyro P.
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p.5 #4 · Primes only?


Please do, and you should visit, its a beautiful place. I came from Europe on vacations 3 years ago and never went back

Edited on Aug 29, 2008 at 01:23 AM



Aug 29, 2008 at 01:22 AM
ulrikft
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p.5 #5 · Primes only?


DavidP wrote:
Another photographer without any willpower?

How the heck do you choose your aperture, shutter speed, and ISO without something to "force you" to do it?


Doing something physically is a different process from doing it with a twist of the wrist. You may think it sounds stupid, but it is. It makes for a longer and more thought trough process.



Aug 29, 2008 at 02:12 AM
danmitchell
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p.5 #6 · Primes only?


NOTE: I inadvertently offended another forum member with the part of the content of my original version of this post. I have edited the text below to remove the wording that caused offense, and I have apologized for my inclusion of a portion of the post that I would not have written had it occurred to me that the other poster was not a native speaker/writer of English. See my followup on the next page for the explanation and my apology if you are interested.

ulrikft wrote:
Doing something physically is a different process from doing it with a twist of the wrist. You may think it sounds stupid, but it is. It makes for a longer and more thought trough process.


Groan.

First, how is "doing something physically" different from "doing it with a twist of the wrist"? Jeez.

(deleted) There is nothing about using a zoom that precludes a careful and thoughtful approach to a making a photograph.

I've seen more than enough posts by now that presume that using a zoom necessarily means shooting without thought. This is simply nonsense. When I shoot with a zoom I apply at least as much thought (deleted) as I do when I shoot with a prime.

Dan

Edited by danmitchell on Aug 29, 2008 at 12:50 PM GMT

Edited on Aug 29, 2008 at 03:50 PM



Aug 29, 2008 at 11:17 AM
rhorta
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p.5 #7 · Primes only?


Kaffemonster wrote:
I would love to keep my zooms and just buy a wheelbarrow full of primes, but sadly, funds are not permitting. I'm about to quit my job so I can spend more time with my family (and my camera ). Unfortunatly, such luxury comes with a pay cut. On top of that, my kid #2 is due in 9 weeks. Both the 16-35 and 24-70 are absolute gems, but my primes blow them out of the water when it comes to sharpness - and size. I love the 50mm on my 40D, as opposed to the two pound 24-70.


You could add more primes without dumping all the zooms and still keep the cost down.

If I were you I'd keep the 24-70 and skip the 28/1.8 (imho a pretty mediocre performer, although some might disagree). As much as I love the 135/2, it is pretty long on crop if you use it indoors. Note that I am not saying that it cannot be used in doors, I use both 70-200 at 200 and the 200/2.8 that way, but not as frequently as I use 85 or 135mm (FF).

And sure the primes in your list are nice, but IMHO their advantage is mainly in very shallow dof, low light and size, from f/4 an upward I don't really notice any difference with my zooms.

Be sure that you really want to dump all those zooms...

Ruy

Edited on Aug 29, 2008 at 11:40 AM



Aug 29, 2008 at 11:35 AM
ulrikft
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p.5 #8 · Primes only?


danmitchell wrote:
Groan.

First, how is "doing something physically" different from "doing it with a twist of the wrist"? Jeez.

Despite my admiration for those who have figured out how to shoot with "more thought trough process," there is nothing about using a zoom that precludes a careful and thoughtful approach to a making a photograph.

I've seen more than enough posts by now that presume that using a zoom necessarily means shooting without thought. This is simply nonsense. When I shoot with a zoom I apply at least as much thought (though rarely any "trough") as I do when I shoot with
...Show more

It is good to see that you are far more busy belittling me on account of how I use my second/third language than actually trying to understand and refute my points. Good job!



Aug 29, 2008 at 12:08 PM
abam
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p.5 #9 · Primes only?


he's just being haughty, ulrik - par for the course. i understand what you mean, though.

"Doing something physically is a different process from doing it with a twist of the wrist."

...you mean zooming with your feet, not with your wrist. makes sense.

"...a...more thought t[h]rough process..."

pretty easy to see what you meant here, even without the "h".

if only more americans could speak a foreign language as well as most foreigners can speak english...



Aug 29, 2008 at 12:31 PM
ulrikft
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p.5 #10 · Primes only?


I have zooms and I have primes, and when i cover sports and similar things, I just got to use my 70-200. But when I do casual "beacause i love it" shooting, having to walk, crouch, bend over, climb and spend those extra 10-15-160 seconds trying to capture an image, I just think more about it. Just as a 4x6 shooter spend more time and take less images, so do I take fewer photos, but I think that those I take is better. One can disagree with this train of thought and one can feel diffrently, but that is the way it works for me. Taking my time doing something makes me consider what i do more. If one does this anyhow and feel that one has nowhere to improve, that is great, but I'm not that person.


Aug 29, 2008 at 12:40 PM
mh2000
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p.5 #11 · Primes only?


You have claimed in the past to be able to *see* pefectly at all focal lengths David, but most photographers can only *see* really well/best at one or a few focal lengths, and for them it is better sticking with that/them and refining their art/skill around them. Really standout photographers are rarely jack of all trades... many hack commercial photogs have to be just to pay the bills. It's not about lack of willpower, it's about working with what works for you.

The benifit of "having to think" sometimes is a side thing, coping with limitations always makes you think... and you more often have to do this with primes, but even going out with a 24-70 and 70-200 I can't say how many times I was swapping between those two lenses because I was going between 50 and 135... a 50 and 135 would have been easier to swap than the zooms.



Aug 29, 2008 at 12:46 PM
Daniel Heineck
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p.5 #12 · Primes only?


Dan,

Sometimes I agree with you, but I think you went a bit far--and as an US citizen as well, I agree with our Norwegian and Dutch (I think... not listed) friends about being a bit nitpicky with language... seriously.

A bit on tyranny of choice (albeit grossly blown for our concerns, you can take away the message I'm suggesting if you feel like it, or throw it completely away)
http://www.swarthmore.edu/SocSci/bschwar1/Sci.Amer.pdf
or
http://www.sju.edu/academics/cr/chronicle.htm

Reduced options helps a lot of us with creativity since it gives constraints through which to work, therefore many of us take better pictures when we're stuck with one focal length because our brains are working better . If you're so blessed as to be able to do so with zooms--knock your socks out.

Daniel



Aug 29, 2008 at 12:53 PM
chez
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p.5 #13 · Primes only?


Daniel Heineck wrote:
Dan,

Sometimes I agree with you, but I think you went a bit far--and as an US citizen as well, I agree with our Norwegian and Dutch (I think... not listed) friends about being a bit nitpicky with language... seriously.

A bit on tyranny of choice (albeit grossly blown for our concerns, you can take away the message I'm suggesting if you feel like it, or throw it completely away)
http://www.swarthmore.edu/SocSci/bschwar1/Sci.Amer.pdf
or
http://www.sju.edu/academics/cr/chronicle.htm

Reduced options helps a lot of us with creativity since it gives constraints through which to work, therefore many of us take better pictures when we're stuck with one focal length
...Show more

Why stop at just limiting your focal lengths. Why not 1 ISO, 1 aperature and 1 shutter speed?


Edited on Aug 29, 2008 at 01:13 PM



Aug 29, 2008 at 01:12 PM
rhorta
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p.5 #14 · Primes only?


0jjcpa123 wrote:
If you go to http://www.the-digital-picture.com/Reviews and do the comparison, you can see that the 70-200mm F4 IS is sharper then 135L. I only have 7-2 so I don't know whether the test is true or not in practice.

I switched from prime to zoom gradually. Although prime can train you for framing or others, it is not that case all the time. I shoot lots of pictures for my daughter's rehearsals (piano, choir, dancing or other stage performance). Most of time you can not move around. You sit on your seat. That's all.


Reviews help, so do tests, but be careful with the type of test as it isn't foolproof.

It takes more than a single test chart test, by a single tester to proof that one lens is sharper than the other.

I wouldn't base my conclusions on such third part evidence.

The 135/2 is very sharp, even wide open.



Aug 29, 2008 at 01:15 PM
rhorta
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p.5 #15 · Primes only?


chez wrote:
[Why stop at just limiting your focal lengths. Why not 1 ISO, 1 aperature and 1 shutter speed?


+1

Such limitations are fine if you can't have choice...

There are people with very little gear that get the most out of said gear. You might call that creativity, as in finding creative ways to get the most bang out of the Buck, but given a choice wouldn't you rather have the best tool for the job?

Ruy



Aug 29, 2008 at 01:18 PM
Daniel Heineck
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p.5 #16 · Primes only?


Chez,

Thanks for taking this to the absurd immediately. We're certainly capable of handling plenty of options, but going from 4 intertwined options to 3 certainly helps, especially with composition.

BTW, I mostly use zooms, and am not opposed to them, but realize that when I walk out the door with just a 50 or a 28 prime, I focus a lot more on the picture instead of zooming back and forth through trying to get a composition. Well, that and I usually stick to a small aperture range as well (eg wide open to f4 typically).



Aug 29, 2008 at 01:18 PM
Sorensiim
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p.5 #17 · Primes only?




Why stop at just limiting your focal lengths. Why not 1 ISO, 1 aperature and 1 shutter speed?


I've been trying to get that darn sun to stay in the same place, but I haven't yet figured out how to put it on "M"


This is the first time I have seen a thread going this ugly on FM. Stick to the topic, read the thread and kindly lend me (and everybody else) your opinions and experiences. Attacking others for their spelling or choice of words (I'm Danish - sorry in advance) or even worse - their style of shooting... Man, I'm dissappointed. I thought the FM'ers were above such petty things?

Some like zooms, some like primes. Feel free to tell me why you have chosen which ever combination of lenses, but PLEASE stop telling others that they are wrong.



Aug 29, 2008 at 01:19 PM
M Vers
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p.5 #18 · Primes only?


chez wrote:
It does since it makes your 24L an equivalent 35L leaving you with either getting the ultra expensive 14L for your 1.6 crop camera wide angle or going with the wide angle zooms made for the crop cameras.


That's why there is a Tokina 11-16. If anything, and many will argue, crop bodies offer better lens options when it comes to UWA. Pair up the Tokina with a 24/35/85 and you've got yourself an outstanding kit.

Edited on Aug 29, 2008 at 01:23 PM



Aug 29, 2008 at 01:22 PM
Maced
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p.5 #19 · Primes only?


I have to agree with Dave above. Why limit yourself to just one? I like shooting with my prime lens (50mm f/1,8). But I also like having the flexibility of zooms with my 70-200 F/4L
Don't limit yourself, just add more glass (if necessary) Sound like you have Gear Lust to me!

I would love to have your current set up. You are far more fortunate than a lot of people, including myself, as far as gear you already have.

Keep that in mind. Figure out how to shoot better with what you have. I find that said in one way or another a lot on this board, and with only two lenses in my bag, it's something I have to do! =)



Aug 29, 2008 at 01:36 PM
Jo Dilbeck
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p.5 #20 · Primes only?


danmitchell wrote:
I often wonder: "Why EITHER primes or zooms ONLY?"

My approach is, for the most part, to consider high quality zooms that do not necessarily have the largest available apertures - e.g. lenses like the 24-105mm f/4 L - and to augment them with a few carefully chose primes.

Why cut yourself off from the advantages of either type of lens?

Dan



HERE-HERE! This is the exact strategy I have chosen. I have the following:

Zooms: 17-40 F4L, 24-105 F4L and 70-200 F4 IS
Primes: 28 1.8, 50 1.8, 85 1.8,100 F2.8 Macro, 135 F2

I use the zooms for walking around, and bring out the primes when I need very blurred backgrounds, or for low light. Since I'm mostly a landscape and nature photographer, I haven't yet found a need for moving to 2.8 zooms. Besides, the weight of those keeps putting me off. I'm hoping to soon rid myself of the 28 and 50 and replace them with the 35 1.4, then I'd have ALMOST the holy trinity of primes!

Jo



Aug 29, 2008 at 02:24 PM
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