therock wrote:
I too do not dwell on pixel level peeping but I have been looking at lots of 50D files @ 100% today doing an AF fine tuning run across all my glass.
I have DPP opening them @ 100% and I am comparing different AF fine tuning settings against each other.
I have both the in cam and DPP NR settings off. ALO off. Shooting RAW in neutral PS.
What I have been seeing different than what my 40D files used to do in previous versions of DPP is when a 40D file first opened @ 100% in earlier DPP versions it looked bad for a second then rendered or snapped into focus.
Today because I am paying close attention to details in pixel level images of the 50D in the latest DPP version it's the opposite.
And instead of two steps, soft then focused the 50D files first appear in a blocky formation, then focus, then the final stage is softer.
So when the image first appears it is better or sharper looking than after it renders. It looks like noise control is being applied. It had me go back into my camera and check all my noise settings. they were as I had set them up.
So I look at them in CS4. They just look better to me in CS4 ACR 5.1. I open it in Bridge and let ACR do it's thing with the default sharpness slider going to 25.
Something is up in Denmark at my house. My 50D images look better in CS4. Keep in mind I am not running a noise torture test on them either. ...Show more →
hmm you think DPP has some NR stuck on for the 50D even when it is turned off??
I hope not because then the 50D may not be as good as thought.
I found 40D and 50D similar per image noise in DPP but 1/2-1 stop worse or so in ACR for the 50D vs. the 40D. But since the 50D used adobe 4.6 and the 40D adobe 4.4 i was figuring it was just that 4.6 goes more detail over noise supression.
but if you say DPP is forcing NR on the 50D raws.....
EDIT: it seems it had been caused by his card reader and it tricked him into thinking the stages were different
It's your choice whether or not you wish to engage DPP NR. Just takes a click "apply" and a few seconds later the display twitches, blurs and refocuses with noise removed.
What I have been seeing different than what my 40D files used to do in previous versions of DPP is when a 40D file first opened @ 100% in earlier DPP versions it looked bad for a second then rendered or snapped into focus.
Today because I am paying close attention to details in pixel level images of the 50D in the latest DPP version it's the opposite.
And instead of two steps, soft then focused the 50D files first appear in a blocky formation, then focus, then the final stage is softer.
So when the image first appears it is better or sharper looking than after it renders. It looks like noise control is being applied. It had me go back into my camera and check all my noise settings. they were as I had set them up....Show more →
Either you're mistaken or your preferences or DPP version are different than mine. I just double checked and my 40D and 50D RAW files behave exactly the same when opened: 2 steps, first one blurry and a couple seconds later sharp. The 50D file takes slightly longer to snap into sharp focus because it is 50% larger. There is no "third" stage where it resoftens slightly. I'm using DPP 3.5.0.1 and 50D with FW 1.0.1.
Also, if I go to the tools panel and select NR/LENS/ALO, I must click on "Apply NR" for NR to engage. A few seconds later the display twitches and reflects the new NR setting.
Gochugogi wrote:
It's your choice whether or not you wish to engage DPP NR. Just takes a click "apply" and a few seconds later the display twitches, blurs and refocuses with noise removed.
Either you're mistaken or your preferences or DPP version are different than mine. I just double checked and my 40D and 50D RAW files behave exactly the same when opened: 2 steps, first one blurry and a couple seconds later sharp. The 50D file takes slightly longer to snap into sharp focus because it is 50% larger. There is no "third" stage where it resoftens slightly. I'm using DPP 3.5.0.1 and 50D with FW 1.0.1.
Also, if I go to the tools panel and select NR/LENS/ALO, I must click on "Apply NR" for NR to engage. A few seconds later the display twitches and reflects the new NR setting....Show more →
I think the poster was asking whether or not dpp was performing some noise reduction even if its setting for NR was OFF. The reason being the ACR produces noisier results. I am also interested in the answer to this question.
OK, the blocky stage is my card reader. I put them on the HDD and I'm back to 2 steps.
All NR in-cam and DPP is and was turned off.
At my house I'm getting better looking images via CS4 ACR 5.1. I do love DPP though. The Autumn Hues picture style is great. And the edge sharpening is good.
I hope the Fw1.0.3 also improve the auto-iso/metering and the automatic modes(totally useless for now...why not make them user set options??).
my 50D with 1.0.1 is always shooting over exposed, unless I go all manual.
I have to step down the exposure 2 step down to make it viable.
That's with IS lens, 17-55mm and 100-400 L...
picture quality isn't a huge step foward from a Rebel XT so far. But i'm used to have DXo correcting my pictures and it's not available now on the 50D.
I think they released it way too fast, with poor factory calibration.
Dominic Soucy wrote:
picture quality isn't a huge step foward from a Rebel XT so far. But i'm used to have DXo correcting my pictures and it's not available now on the 50D.
I think they released it way too fast, with poor factory calibration.
I think your wrong if you don't think it is a step better than an XT. My copy has 1.0.1 and I have been getting much better results than any previous xxD cameras, including the recent 40D.
Rather than relying on DXo to do your corrections try doing them yourself. I'm using CS2 and I'm not having any problems getting good results.
I modified my workflow some but that is the same for any camera I use. You don't need the latest and greatest software solution to process 50D files properly.
Spends some time learning how to use your camera instead of trashing it. My guess is that any new FW that is introduced is not going to make a dramatic difference in your output until you take the time to learn how to process a image.
Two recent examples using outdated software (CS2) and DPP. Both were shot with a 100-400, I believe a lens you use.
Dominic Soucy wrote:
I hope the Fw1.0.3 also improve the auto-iso/metering and the automatic modes(totally useless for now...why not make them user set options??).
my 50D with 1.0.1 is always shooting over exposed, unless I go all manual.
I have to step down the exposure 2 step down to make it viable.
That's with IS lens, 17-55mm and 100-400 L...
picture quality isn't a huge step foward from a Rebel XT so far. But i'm used to have DXo correcting my pictures and it's not available now on the 50D.
I think they released it way too fast, with poor factory calibration.
Don't look for feature changes or add-on's in firmware. They are about fixes and that's it.
You may want to exchange your 50D if the overexposure thing is for real. Mine does really great across all my glass an EFS 17-55 2.8 IS included.
well it's hard to justify spending countless hours fixing images when a correction software can do it automatically. Dxo is just magic on my 100-400 with the XT.
Doing CS3 retouch on some shoots but most of the time it's bang on.
I have started looking into the tons of settings, tweaks, and softwares out there.
I spent time taking 10shots of the same scene to fine tune the 50D beast(focus, iso test, raw+jpegs..), instead of *shooting*..err
functionality of the body are there, 50D is fast to access functions and on pretty much everything..
but can't it be simple to use when you need it, and there are options provided for that(automatic modes)?
Out of the box, a 1500$ device should output more quality than i see right now.
see down here, a shot in sport mode, typical quality from the 50D first.
then the same kind of shot on the rebelXT, not even retouched.
Just got a chance to shoot my 50D today, about 50 shots in, got my first ERR 99 with 70-200 F2.8 IS. Pulled battery, reset fine. Another 50 shots or so, ANOTHER ERR 99 with same lens. Swapped lens to 70-200 F4 IS, another 50 shots without an error. Firmware 1.0.2. Should I return it? Should I keep it and wait for firmware 1.0.3 and hope it fixes it? Hate to keep it if these problems continue. I've had 350D, 30D, 5D and now 50D and NEVER had a single error on the other 3 bodies.
Scary...........but at least it resets quickly enough. Although why we should be subjected to these types of problems is beyond me. Does anyone know if Canon has acknowledged publicly that there is a problem and that they are working on it?
Return it. I got an Er 99 about 100 shots in. Pulled the battery and all good to go. It hasn't happened again in over 2000 shots. But, 3 times in 150 shots is not random or a coincidence.
Dominic Soucy wrote:
well it's hard to justify spending countless hours fixing images when a correction software can do it automatically. Dxo is just magic on my 100-400 with the XT.
Doing CS3 retouch on some shoots but most of the time it's bang on.
It takes less than a minute to process a file if you have a workflow established.
First you need to be able to get the shot as close to right as possible in-camera so it only requires minor adjustments.
Second you need to stop using the Auto modes and shoot in AV, TV, or M. If you want to shoot in Auto modes you would have been better off just getting another xxxD camera. Maybe you should have upgraded to the XSi instead.
things i shoot are probably quite in another branch than yours.
I've tried AV mode mostly for manual, to shoot windsurf, but the usual settings i've been recommended are still not up to what I expect. Action is fast, i can't dial in a new settings when a cloud come over at the same time someone is flying of a wave.
I'd still like to see the automodes helping me, instead of being totally useless, although your not the first to say not to use them. wonder why canon put them in? They could have added custom onea: C3 C4 C5..
Dominic Soucy wrote:
wella, 300 files takes quite a few minutes.
Have you ever heard of batch processing?
I process over a 1000 files at a time. I batch process them so it is basically automated.
I also shoot sports and I would never use an Auto setting for something like that. You need to be able to control the DOF and shutter speed and an Auto mode will not allow you to adequately do this.
If you want to get the optimum performance out of a 50D you need to leave the Auto modes behind and start learning how to control your own DOF, shutter speed, and exposure using either AV, TV, or M. Otherwise your just buying a $1400 P&S.
Your wasting your money upgrading if you intend to shoot in auto/sports/etc..
Not sure what you mean by shooting AV mode mostly for manual?
If you are concerned about cloud cover and changes in exposure that you cannot make changes for manually, then just use AV or TV and let the camera ride the opposite. If shutter is not fast enough for you while shooting in AV..Bump your ISO...
When shooting surfing (or anything for that matter) that is backlit or competing with the sky, you're going to have to dial in some +EV to get your subject exposure correct.
Relying on software to fix poorly shot images is fine on occasion. But IMHO, it certainly shouldn't be a matter of standard operating procedure. You cannot blame the camera because your software doesn't automatically correct all the user errors.
Anyway...I hope you get things figured out. On this forum you'll get advice from a wide variety of users with varying amounts of experience. So take it for what it's worth.
Dominic Soucy wrote:
I've tried AV mode mostly for manual, to shoot windsurf, but the usual settings i've been recommended are still not up to what I expect. Action is fast, i can't dial in a new settings when a cloud come over at the same time someone is flying of a wave.
I had great time with Evaluative Mode back in the XT days, so yes those shots are from this mode.
I figured this would meter the whole image so white foam in the waves would be taken into account, and limit overexposure. but maybe im wrong? AWB is also selected.
the 50D decided to crank up to iso1600 on the shot?
the XT selected 400. which I find more logical.
I came across the C.FnIV: 1-2. mode while reading the manual today and this was going to be in my next tests..
along with the C.FnII: 3-1 , D+ mode that expand details in highlights? maybe good.
the C.Fn1: 6-1 safety shift... I wasn't really hot to try this but who knows!
no worry, i like batch processing a lot
when it applies.
@Andrew, yep that's why I use AV mode (to me this is manual..). If I see the aperture flashing (5.6min on the 100-400L), then I crank the iso. I also watch the highlight warning after taking a few shots.
Dom, as far as I know, the XT always shoots ISO 400 when in sports mode. In auto ISO mode, 50D can go as far as 1600. When using "auto" modes, you should always expect some surprises from the camera.
The different exposure is caused by the evaluative mode and the different landscape: the XT image has more highlights than the 50D image (more waves and the sky in the background), hence the underexposure seen in the XT picture. It is all about the exposure algorithm, that is more or less the same on all DSLRs.
I guess you used the evaluative mode, and this explains a lot.