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Archive 2008 · Eyepiece magnifier for 5D: What magnification is best?

  
 
Cableaddict
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p.2 #1 · Eyepiece magnifier for 5D: What magnification is best?


There are many articles on the internet about this. It's very likely the future of DSLR's.

dcains, do a little research. I didn't save the urls and I don't feel like writing about it since you wouldn't believe me anyway.



Aug 07, 2008 at 02:07 AM
dcains
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p.2 #2 · Eyepiece magnifier for 5D: What magnification is best?


Cableaddict wrote:
There are many articles on the internet about this. It's very likely the future of DSLR's.

dcains, do a little research. I didn't save the urls and I don't feel like writing about it since you wouldn't believe me anyway.


Well I guess that settles it then. No need to back up your contention with any messy facts. Do your own research, ad lib. Try holding your DSLR at arm's length and see how your images turn out. Works great for millions of snapshot shooters, so you'll fit right in.



Aug 07, 2008 at 10:56 AM
tmessenger
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p.2 #3 · Eyepiece magnifier for 5D: What magnification is best?


I owned an Olympus E410 for a while and use the live view feature. If you have poor eyesight or the wrong glasses then yes arms length is required, if you can see properly then 10" out is good which allows you to brace your arms against your body for steady holding. It's a handy feature and doable at least with smaller cameras but may force some to think outside the box. I must admit I prefer a viewfinder but understand there may be trade offs for a ultra small camera with interchangeable lenses like the up and coming micro 4/3.



dcains wrote:
Well I guess that settles it then. No need to back up your contention with any messy facts. Do your own research, ad lib. Try holding your DSLR at arm's length and see how your images turn out. Works great for millions of snapshot shooters, so you'll fit right in.




Aug 07, 2008 at 12:39 PM
Cableaddict
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p.2 #4 · Eyepiece magnifier for 5D: What magnification is best?


tmessenger wrote:
If you have poor eyesight or the wrong glasses then yes arms length is required, if you can see properly then 10" out is good which allows you to brace your arms against your body for steady holding. It's a handy feature and doable at least with smaller cameras but may force some to think outside the box. I must admit I prefer a viewfinder but understand there may be trade offs...


They could easily make a rubber eyepiece to go over the LCD, or make that an optional accessory. It would then be the same as the world's biggest and brightest viewfinder, with built-in compensation for slow lenses, and possibly with optional MF treatments created digitally, such as multiple virtual focussing screens.

If the image was TOO big, it would be simple enough to add a "viewfinder" button, which would make the image 1/2 size and maybe lower the brightness at the same time. Hit the button again, swing the eyepiece to the left, and you have an LCD again.
--------------------------------------------------

-but that's not why things will change. The change will come because there are significant advantages to getting rid of the mirror assembly & moving the lens closer to the sensor:

Weight goes down for both the camera & the lens. Lens construction gets (much) cheaper, and camera construction gets a little cheaper. Vignetting can be eliminated without huge glass and the IQ compromises that always entails.

The angle of incidence onto the sensor plane improves. (that one seems backwards to me, but that's what I read.) Dynamic range can be improved...

-and no more dealing with MLU. If there's no mirror, there's no hassle.

There's more, but I forget the rest.

Maybe, for the Luddite crowd, some company like Brightscreen will develop an add-on spot viewfinder for these new cameras. You could perhaps mount it on the hotshoe, and use it as if you had a Rangefinder camera. I dunno...

Change is inevitable. So is Luddite-ism. (I think I just invented a word)

Let's all take pictures & be happy, whaddaya' say?

Edited on Aug 09, 2008 at 03:01 AM



Aug 07, 2008 at 09:08 PM
Cableaddict
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p.2 #5 · Eyepiece magnifier for 5D: What magnification is best?


BACK TO THE ORIGINAL TOPIC:


Jman13 wrote:
If you get the brightscreen, please report...if it works well, especially if it works well, and doesn't obscure the VF at all while wearing glasses, it might be worth the extra $$ for one.


I received the Brightscreen 20/20 eyepiece yesterday, so here's my report. Actually, this will also be a question.

First thing I noticed: They claim it's a 1.75 X magnifier, but I can't see how that's even remotely possible. It seems like maybe 1.2X or 1.25X on a really good day. More on this (with my question) below.

OK, the thing IS extremely bright. Brighter than not using it, in fact. I really really like this one aspect of it.

The other positive aspect is that, as I had hoped, it absolutely does make manual-focusing easier, even with the stock focus screen. I suppose, though, that any other magnifier would do the same.

It also ALMOST (sort of kind of) shows the whole original view, but well not really. To see the entire view, I have to smash my eye against it, with serious force. This then causes the right side to bend, to fold in, which obscures a large part of the view. It's actually pretty awful, Additionally, If I look straght into it, I only can see about 2/3 of the view in the vertical plane. I have to sort of get below it and angle my eye upwards to see the whole thing. this is REALLY bad, and I tried all sorts of positions with the mount.

You can also forget about wearing glasses with this thing. No chance. On their website, the old picture (recently replaced) showed an oval eyecup. Ovals are supposed to be good for wearing glasses. It turns out that the eyecup is actually just a plain round one. I happened to save that website picture with a screenshot. Looking at it now, I see it was simply distorted. REALLY distorted, enough to make the round eyecup literally look oval. I can't imagine that they weren't aware of this, so I kind of smell a rat here.
-------------------

So now I have to decide whether to ask for my $210 back. It really comes down to the magnification. If this thing is really only 1.25X, as I suspect, then it's a huge rip-off. I certianly want SOME kind of magnifier, now that I've used one.

I'm hoping someone here can help figure this out, as I have no other magnifier as a reference:
-------------------

If I remove the stock eyepiece, and look into the 5D's viewfinder, I can see a small black border on the left & right sides. Maybe 10% of the whole width. Installing the Brightscreen eyepiece, and holding my eye against it tightly but comfortably, the black completely disappears, and just a sliver of the view sides as well.

As for as the size of images in the view, they hardly get bigger at all. I guess would be 10%, if that. A 24" wide painting at 4 feet away, that filled the frame with the stock eyepiece, has about 2" extend past the field of view with the brightscreen eyepiece..

How does this compare to the Nikon DK-17? Does it really sound like 1.75X magnification?

I just can't imagine anything having LESS magnification than this, without being clear glass. This unit is also very shallow, like the DK17 and UN-like the very deep Seagull 2.5X unit. It seems to me that it would have to be much deeper than it is in order to be a true 1.75X unit. Brightscreen conveniently doesn't show a side-view online.

Do you think Brightscreen is pulling a fast one?

I'd appreciate some opinions, if possible, before I call them tomorrow.



.

Edited by Cableaddict on Aug 14, 2008 at 06:08 AM GMT

Edited on Aug 14, 2008 at 06:08 AM



Aug 14, 2008 at 04:53 AM
Jman13
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p.2 #6 · Eyepiece magnifier for 5D: What magnification is best?


That sounds like the DK-17M is better than the brightscreen. I can nearly see the whole view WITH glasses. Without glasses, I can see the whole thing. Of course, I'm on a 1.6x, not full frame.


Aug 14, 2008 at 05:28 AM
Chris48
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p.2 #7 · Eyepiece magnifier for 5D: What magnification is best?


Pentax has a 1.18x eyecup magnifier which will fit the 5D. Check Pentax Magnifying Eyecup O-ME53. Sells for about $30-40.


Aug 14, 2008 at 07:20 PM
cogitech
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p.2 #8 · Eyepiece magnifier for 5D: What magnification is best?


Just an update to my initial thoughts on the DK-17M:

After a few days of shooting with it here in Japan, I have removed it and it will be for sale when I return to Canada. My keeper rate dropped significantly with it. YMMV.



Aug 15, 2008 at 12:02 AM
rfkiii
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p.2 #9 · Eyepiece magnifier for 5D: What magnification is best?


Cableaddict wrote:
Oddly enough, a really good live-view will probably be a great boon for MF shooting.


They (Canon) will have to improve LCD technology dramatically before MF via Live View will be viable outdoors in most types of light.



Aug 16, 2008 at 06:40 PM
Cableaddict
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p.2 #10 · Eyepiece magnifier for 5D: What magnification is best?


Jman,

I'd say that your 1.6 crop info probably doesn't apply here, but thanks regardless.
-----------------

Chris- are you saying that the Pentax adapter fits onto a 5D with no modification?
------------------

cogitach - What do you suspect is the reason for your high failure rate? As unhappy as I am with the Brightscreen (mostly because I think they are blatantly lying about it's magnification) I am pretty much nailing focus all the time. -At least 95%.

The hardest shots are long-distance, but not quite infinity, with my Zeiss 50mm.

With all my Canon lenses, if I switch to MF I can equal or out-do the AF's performance pretty much every time. -And I'm still using the stock 5D focus screen.

Is the SK-17 dark? If so, that would be a big help to me, since I can't decide whether to return this Brightscreen eyepiece. As I wrote earlier, if nothing else it IS extremely bright.




Aug 16, 2008 at 06:59 PM
Cableaddict
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p.2 #11 · Eyepiece magnifier for 5D: What magnification is best?


Technical update:

I mentioned in my OP that it is very difficult to see the whole VERTICAL view, that it is hard to orient the eye properly. I have since read that some other folks have the same problem with the Nikon eyecup:

I have discovered that this problem has to do with the eyecup:

Because the eyepiece does not project back from the camera very much, my nose still hits the LCD. this combined with the BOTTOM of the eyecup causes my eye to orient at a slight downward angle. It's hard to explain, but the bottom line is: If I fold the bottom half of the eyecup inwards, my eye then orients properly.

So, if I keep this overpriced doo-hicky, I will simply cut-away some of the bottom eyecup. This might be beneficial to those using the Nikon as well.

I think a true 1.75X eyepiece would extend further back, and this problem wouldn't exist. Too bad Brightscreen doesn't actually make such a device.





Edited by Cableaddict on Aug 16, 2008 at 07:12 PM GMT

Edited on Aug 16, 2008 at 07:12 PM



Aug 16, 2008 at 07:03 PM
Cableaddict
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p.2 #12 · Eyepiece magnifier for 5D: What magnification is best?


rfkiii wrote:
They (Canon) will have to improve LCD technology dramatically before MF via Live View will be viable outdoors in most types of light.


Not necessarily. They could simply make a rubber hood to go around the LCD. In effect, an eyecup. This would then become a giant viewfinder (given enough resolution, which the new LCD's seem to have)

They could then even create digitally-generated focus screens. Imagine being able to switch from standard to grid, to microprism, with the touch of a button. There would also no longer be a need for DOF preview. the LCD/viewfinder would compensate for low-light, thus you'd always see the actual DOF of any shot, and nice & bright. Fawgeddaboudit....)

Time will tell, but I'm convinced this is coming, especially since they will soon likely do away with mirror assemblies. -but that's for another thread.

Edited on Aug 16, 2008 at 07:07 PM



Aug 16, 2008 at 07:07 PM
cogitech
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p.2 #13 · Eyepiece magnifier for 5D: What magnification is best?


Cableaddict wrote:
cogitach - What do you suspect is the reason for your high failure rate? As unhappy as I am with the Brightscreen (mostly because I think they are blatantly lying about it's magnification) I am pretty much nailing focus all the time. -At least 95%.



My eyelashes are simply too long. Oil from my lashes quickly makes the view sort of blurry.

At least, this is what I suspect. With the magnifier installed, it is just never as sharp as without it installed. It is very difficult for me to tell when critical focus is achieved through that eyepiece. My keeper rate it very very high without it, so it makes no sense for me to use it.



Aug 16, 2008 at 10:38 PM
Cableaddict
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p.2 #14 · Eyepiece magnifier for 5D: What magnification is best?


Paul, (or anyone else)

How would you rate the brightness of the DK-17 (if you can remember.) Darker, brighter, or equal to the stock 5D?

I really need to know. As I wrote, the Brightscreen D2 is VERY bright, so if the alternatives are darker, I might keep it despite the high price and exaggerated magnification claims.



Aug 17, 2008 at 10:33 PM
cogitech
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p.2 #15 · Eyepiece magnifier for 5D: What magnification is best?


I didn't notice any change in brightness with the DK17M.


Aug 18, 2008 at 02:27 AM
Cableaddict
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p.2 #16 · Eyepiece magnifier for 5D: What magnification is best?


Thanks.


Aug 18, 2008 at 06:53 AM
Chris48
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p.2 #17 · Eyepiece magnifier for 5D: What magnification is best?


Cableaddict - Yes, the Pentax eyepiece doesn't need any modification. It just replaces the original factory eyepiece on the 5D but it is about 1/4 inch thicker.

It makes focussing a bit easier but more difficult to see the whole frame. You have to move your eye around. YMMV. In low light you may want to take it off for a slightly brighter view.



Aug 20, 2008 at 08:28 AM
bias_hjorth
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p.2 #18 · Eyepiece magnifier for 5D: What magnification is best?


Easily the DK-17M - That goes for the smaller Eos series aswell


Aug 20, 2008 at 10:25 AM
Cableaddict
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p.2 #19 · Eyepiece magnifier for 5D: What magnification is best?


Chris,

Thanks for that. From your description, I'm guessing that the Brightscreen D2 is actually much better despite its faults. Maybe there is no way to make a perfect viewfinder.

I showed my rig to two pro photogs last night. Neither one of them shoots MF, so they didn't have a strong opinion on that aspect, but bothed loved the larger, bright view and didn't mind he loss of the corners too much.

I've decided t keep the D2. At this point I even recommend that others try it for themselves.



Aug 21, 2008 at 04:03 PM
phuang3
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p.2 #20 · Eyepiece magnifier for 5D: What magnification is best?


You need KPS 2-13C 1.35x eyepiece magnifier. High quality, and much better fit for Canon camera (/w screw) I used to have DK-17M with adapter for my 30D, and I can tell you that there is nothing can compare with the KPS right now.


http://secu-line.com/userData/KPS_view_eng.jpg


http://www.universal-photovideo.com.tw/webnews/photo/U-2.gif


http://secu-line.com/uploadfile/1187770564333718001.jpg



Edited on Aug 21, 2008 at 06:56 PM



Aug 21, 2008 at 06:48 PM
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