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Archive 2008 · 5D vs 1Ds

  
 
veroman
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p.3 #1 · 5D vs 1Ds


markle wrote:
after all it also takes a photographer to make it happen, not just the camera ..... the last time I did interiors we had some 15 lights in place. do you really shoot professionally at 1600 ISO with a 5D with no lighting at all?


"It takes a photographer to make it happen, not just the camera." You say that so egocentrically, as if you were lending the world a new point of view.

More to the point: sarcasm and disrespect will usually get you nowhere. Read my post again. I was specifically talking about those times when I shoot detail shots handheld. Perhaps my lighting was already taken down or, as is usually the case, the detail is in another part of the home .... often in an area that was not lit to begin with. So, as I said, rather than reset any lighting ... and if ambient light will suffice (obviously) ... I have no hesitation shooting at ISO 1600 with the 5D.

As far as your "15 lights in place" goes, you're apparently of the school that some magazines don't cater to. I recently had a face-to-face conversation with the photo editor of one of our most enduring and respected home magazines. We were discussing the level of quality of the pics that appear in a competitor mag. The one thing he tended to criticize about their images was their tendency towards brightness, or "overbrightness," as he called it. "They like to suck the contrast, color and depth out of a room," he said.

This is obviously a different subject entirely than the 1Ds vs. 5D. But since you brought it up, many photographers have commented on my rooms "not being lit enough." One sent me an email that said, "Interior photography is about light, light and more light. Your images have dark areas and shadows. This is the wrong approach." Oh yeah? I'm working all the time .... and I mean ALL the time .... on 20,000 to 30,000 square foot estates, 15,000 square foot apartments, small but substantial designer homes, massive shopping malls and high end stores, etc., etc., etc.

Yeah, my style of mixing ambient light with minimal support lighting is all wrong, especially (according to you) when I use no lighting except the lighting that's there. I prefer actor James Cagney's philosophical approach to work: "Never, ever listen to anybody," he said in the last interview he gave before passing away.

- Steve




Edited on Jul 26, 2008 at 04:45 PM



Jul 26, 2008 at 04:05 PM
skid00skid00
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p.3 #2 · 5D vs 1Ds


stanj wrote:
[ days. The problem is, and be honest - how often do you go outside on a bright and almost sunny day and set the camera to ISO 1250? Personally, I never do that, except by accident, and then I am not particularly happy, even with my current 1Ds3.


Hi, Stan.

It wasn't a bright and sunny day, though, it was at sunset. Those are fairly deep shadows, and I believe that reds will show more noise than greens or blues, there's less energy there.

I shot some thunderheads just last nite, after sundown, even the tops of the clounds were not in direct light. A heavy tree line was in the shot, directed away from the fading light, in deep shadows. I was at iso800, and there's just a tiny bit of chroma noise there, and very little lumi. Maybe I just have a really great 1Ds, but the amount and type of noise I get is only a factor on-screen at 100%. Even then, it's minor. On 13" x 19" full-bleed prints, it's invisible.



Jul 26, 2008 at 07:06 PM
skid00skid00
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p.3 #3 · 5D vs 1Ds


OK, here's the thunderhead shots.

Note that I'm posting screencaps from ACR, so you can see the iso and 100% crop. Note also that I'm using ZERO lumi NR, and a whopping 9 (out of 100) chroma NR. I usually use 3, at iso100-400.

http://home.earthlink.net/~ladlueck4/thumb.jpg

http://home.earthlink.net/~ladlueck4/left.jpg

http://home.earthlink.net/~ladlueck4/right.jpg



And the worst area:
http://home.earthlink.net/~ladlueck4/upperleft.jpg





Jul 26, 2008 at 07:27 PM
mttran
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p.3 #4 · 5D vs 1Ds


I am better stay away from this thread before someone mad at me. can we have mutual discussion here - we may find some good info between old vs new canon sensor

Edited on Jul 26, 2008 at 08:19 PM



Jul 26, 2008 at 08:15 PM
veroman
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p.3 #5 · 5D vs 1Ds


jerryrock wrote:
EOS 1Ds - ISO 1250 - EF 24-70 2.8L @ 1/160 - f5.6 - 45mm - no flash


Reducing an image to that size (700 pixels wide) will almost always obliterate the noise cues or, at the very least, make them near impossible to see.

This is particularly true of cameras like the 1Ds, cameras whose noise characteristic is so fine grained it shrinks to invisibility when you downsize to such an extent.

This is the solution I and others have used when confronted by noise issues in cameras that don't do so well at ISOs above 800 - 1000. I can take the images from a somewhat noisy 12MP DSLR and make them fairly pristine simply by downsizing them to 8MP.

- Steve



Jul 26, 2008 at 08:32 PM
stanj
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p.3 #6 · 5D vs 1Ds


veroman wrote:
Reducing an image to that size (700 pixels wide) will almost always obliterate the noise cues or, at the very least, make them near impossible to see.

This is particularly true of cameras like the 1Ds, cameras whose noise characteristic is so fine grained it shrinks to invisibility when you downsize to such an extent.

This is the solution I and others have used when confronted by noise issues in cameras that don't do so well at ISOs above 800 - 1000. I can take the images from a somewhat noisy 12MP DSLR and make them fairly pristine simply by downsizing them
...Show more

Just read / look at the picture. It's 100%.... No resizing done.

I still don't see all that much relevance, but I am on the road and will post my counter-examples later

Edited on Jul 26, 2008 at 09:46 PM



Jul 26, 2008 at 08:51 PM
veroman
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p.3 #7 · 5D vs 1Ds


stanj wrote:
Just read / look at the picture. It's 100%.... No resizing done.
I still don't see all that much relevance, but I am on the road and will post my counter-examples later


What picture are you referring to here? If it's the same one I commented on, of course it's resized! It's 700 pixels wide and being viewed on 96dpi (at best) monitors. It sure doesn't appear to be a 100% crop, does it?



Jul 26, 2008 at 09:50 PM
stanj
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p.3 #8 · 5D vs 1Ds


veroman wrote:
What picture are you referring to here? If it's the same one I commented on, of course it's resized! It's 700 pixels wide and being viewed on 96dpi (at best) monitors. It sure doesn't appear to be a 100% crop, does it?


See the zoom popup?
http://home.earthlink.net/~ladlueck4/upperleft.jpg



Jul 26, 2008 at 09:51 PM
veroman
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p.3 #9 · 5D vs 1Ds


stanj wrote:
See the zoom popup?
http://home.earthlink.net/~ladlueck4/upperleft.jpg


We're not talking about the same picture or posting. Let's move on.

- Steve



Jul 26, 2008 at 10:52 PM
veroman
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p.3 #10 · 5D vs 1Ds


jerryrock wrote:
For the skeptical: 100% crop


A more reasonable demonstration of the 1Ds' high ISO capabilities (or lack thereof) would be a situation something like this (shot with 5D and 35mm f/2):

http://www.pbase.com/smgarey/image/73860444/original.jpg


Edited on Jul 27, 2008 at 11:40 AM



Jul 27, 2008 at 11:36 AM
Gil_W
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p.3 #11 · 5D vs 1Ds


Veroman- Please reduce the file size some on your image. I have DSL and it took forever to open, longest I've ever seen on FM. I'm sure people with dial up would appreciate it.

That is a very good image and it does show the low light capabilities of the 5D which I don't think anybody is questioning. The 1Ds does produce great image and as we have seen, in the proper hands can do quite well in low light, albeit with some grain/noise which may not even show in prints. Images posted here taken with the 1Ds were taken at ISOs I would not use my 1Ds at and that shows me I need to do more practice and work with exposure settings and ISOs on the camera.



Edited on Jul 27, 2008 at 12:39 PM



Jul 27, 2008 at 12:25 PM
veroman
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p.3 #12 · 5D vs 1Ds


Gil_W wrote:
Veroman- Please reduce the file size some on your image. I have DSL and it took forever to open, longest I've ever seen on FM. I'm sure people with dial up would appreciate it.


Mmmm....it downloaded instantly for me, and it's already a pretty small file. Problem could be at the host site. I'll check things out. Thanks,

- Steve



Jul 27, 2008 at 01:49 PM
Gil_W
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p.3 #13 · 5D vs 1Ds


veroman wrote:
Mmmm....it downloaded instantly for me, and it's already a pretty small file. Problem could be at the host site. I'll check things out. Thanks,

- Steve



Loads instantly now. Must have been a host hang up.



Jul 27, 2008 at 05:19 PM
Kenergy_007
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p.3 #14 · 5D vs 1Ds


How about in the studio setting where you wouldn't need to venture pass 200iso ?

1DS or 5D ?



Jul 27, 2008 at 08:59 PM
stanj
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p.3 #15 · 5D vs 1Ds


Kenergy_007 wrote:
How about in the studio setting where you wouldn't need to venture pass 200iso ?

1DS or 5D ?


1Ds any day.



Jul 28, 2008 at 01:33 AM
Lord Fluff
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p.3 #16 · 5D vs 1Ds


markle wrote:
do you really shoot professionally at 1,600ISO with a 5D with no lighting at all?



You'll find the majority of wedding shooters doing this all the time.



Jul 28, 2008 at 06:52 AM
shaunmlavery
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p.3 #17 · 5D vs 1Ds


Lord Fluff wrote:
You'll find the majority of wedding shooters doing this all the time.


Just shot a wedding this weekend and alott of shots were at 1,600ISO on the 5D with a 70-200 2.8 on the end of it. If I had pictures with me I would post them. Just thought I would back up the comment.



Jul 28, 2008 at 08:25 AM
dasrocket
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p.3 #18 · 5D vs 1Ds


There is no definite one BETTER than the other; I agree with the OP in that it depends no your shooting:
moving subjects, low light/ high ISO, fast viewing/saving rates: 5D.
Sitting on a tripod at the side of a river, in misty rain, 1Ds.
I have shot a lot of w.w. kayaking along landscape and owned both he 5D and the 1Ds. My personal (read: PERSONAL) feelings: the 5D has better out-of-the-box image, better high ISO, faster processing.
The 1Ds has way better build (the 5D feels plastic by comparisson), better metering, can create low ISO images on par with the 5D in p.p., better AF, and most importantly for me, weatherseals!!!

...so it all depends to the use. If you are comparing the 5D and the 1Ds on the same subject, under the same conditions, DON'T! They are different beasts, made at different times, for different uses by different people, so get over it

I bought my 5D used, in perfect shape (8,000 clicks) for 1,200, and my 1Ds used, in good condition (57,000) clicks) for 1,300. I consider both freat deals, so I made my choice to sell the one due to personal use. I sold the 5D and kept the 1Ds, because every time I walked with it on slippery rocks getting to a good spot, I did not want to bother with a rain hood over it.

Edited on Jul 28, 2008 at 10:42 AM



Jul 28, 2008 at 10:42 AM
Chris Beaumont
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p.3 #19 · 5D vs 1Ds


shaunmlavery wrote:
Just shot a wedding this weekend and alott of shots were at 1,600ISO on the 5D with a 70-200 2.8 on the end of it. If I had pictures with me I would post them. Just thought I would back up the comment.


Yup, me too, ceremonys and receptions I tend to be stuck at ISO1600 sucking as much light as possible out of the surroundings.



Jul 28, 2008 at 11:03 AM
shaunmlavery
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p.3 #20 · 5D vs 1Ds


I am however starting to feel sick. I just sold my 1D and I am really missing it, so much so that I actually had a dream about it last night. (i know that seems a little weird, just thought I would be honest.) Now my problem is do I stay with a 5D or get a 1Ds that gives me my 1 series camera "feel" back to me or to I just get used to the feel and all of the new locations of the buttons when going to the 5D? What is a person to do? I dont have 3-4k to spend on a 1ds II or I wouldn't be stuck in this delimena in my mind at least . Ahh!


Aug 01, 2008 at 11:38 AM
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